Jello vision?

Sounds like the Panasonic is for you.........No Jello and no Strobe issues...... It's lighter and cheaper than the EX3

Than move up to the Sony when you can appreciate the EX3 features and bolder sharper image.

frisco
 
The camera is awesome...
You need to have Parkingson to be bothered by the jello.

Seriously if you are a camera operator with basic skills, the images you can get with the camera are going to blow you away on your 42" plasma
 
herminiocordido said:
The camera is awesome...
You need to have Parkingson to be bothered by the jello.

Seriously if you are a camera operator with basic skills, the images you can get with the camera are going to blow you away on your 42" plasma
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A 42" screen looks good with SD or any HD.

You need at least a 50" minimum to see what a EX-1 can do.

Those 37" or smaller "HD" monitors are just silly.
 
Almost everyone owner speaks wonders of these cameras :D

In a week or so I'll be able to do so myself :D
 
Perhaps someone should shoot a couple of whip pans at 180 degree shutter in a room to demonstrate how invisible the rolling shutter is.

I don't think rolling shutter is technically recommended for weddings or anything with strobes or flash photography. It looks strange. On the other hand, I doubt your clients will notice it. I was having a discussion with a friend. She just got a cmos vdeo capable phone. She panned all the time and the walls were going back and forth in 30 degree angle distortion but she still didn't find it was a problem. She thought it was natural for such a panning only when I asked about it and and she doesn't know what shutter is. Videos from other phones have it. There you go. Common=not a problem. When we will not be able to find anything wth ccd below 20,000 euro, nobody will notice or care because the CCD or global shutter CMOS alternative will not even be within reach.
 
Sorry but the flashing effects on a global shutter are highly over rated. THe effect is simply different to what you are after, not worse than you are used too.

Global shutter blows out the whole frame, Rolling Shutter blow out part of the frame. Since when is a complete blow out of a frame acceptable quality footage?

No camera handels flash/strobe exposures properly. I have never had a client even mention the different result from an EX1 to me and I shoots weddings with flash's going off everywhere. At least you still get to see a significant portion of the frame when with global shutter the whole frame is obliterated.

PS: I have never seen any 'jellocam' either. The D90 has jellocam, the EX series has a slight un-noticable skew on certain fast pans which you won't ever notice unless you do a freeze frame to examine a single frame.
 
GuyB said:
Sorry but the flashing effects on a global shutter are highly over rated. THe effect is simply different to what you are after, not worse than you are used too.

Global shutter blows out the whole frame, Rolling Shutter blow out part of the frame. Since when is a complete blow out of a frame acceptable quality footage?

No camera handels flash/strobe exposures properly. I have never had a client even mention the different result from an EX1 to me and I shoots weddings with flash's going off everywhere. At least you still get to see a significant portion of the frame when with global shutter the whole frame is obliterated.

PS: I have never seen any 'jellocam' either. The D90 has jellocam, the EX series has a slight un-noticable skew on certain fast pans which you won't ever notice unless you do a freeze frame to examine a single frame.
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Amen to that.
 
GuyB said:
Sorry but the flashing effects on a global shutter are highly over rated. THe effect is simply different to what you are after, not worse than you are used too.

Global shutter blows out the whole frame, Rolling Shutter blow out part of the frame. Since when is a complete blow out of a frame acceptable quality footage?

No camera handels flash/strobe exposures properly. I have never had a client even mention the different result from an EX1 to me and I shoots weddings with flash's going off everywhere. At least you still get to see a significant portion of the frame when with global shutter the whole frame is obliterated.

PS: I have never seen any 'jellocam' either. The D90 has jellocam, the EX series has a slight un-noticable skew on certain fast pans which you won't ever notice unless you do a freeze frame to examine a single frame.
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i may be speaking out of turn here, and i don't mean to offend or attack, it's merely a question trying to understand digital cinema, but, if a 35mm camera running at 24fps captures a flash, how would that single frame compare to a CCD, CMOS rolling shutter and CMOS global shutter? just curious. i don't think i've ever seen a side by side comparison and it seems "film" is the benchmark - at least for, well, films. i'd love to see a comparison if possible.
 
I have an EX1, I film stories, actors, fictional narratives. Plenty of moving shots, handheld.

I don't specialise in static DOF tests in the park that some people wet themselves over. I don't use a brevis or a letus adaptor.

There is Jello when you whip the camera around and it seems worse on 1080p than 720p IMHO. Also if you do 60fps it again becomes more obvious. However, it is does need an unusually quick pan to happen and if you're not looking for it you generally don't notice it.

It does not get in the way of telling a great story, and I've never had better looking images going on tape (I mean Card!). If your filming style is totally frantic then get another camera. Do I wish it didn't happen? Of course! Am I selling my camera? NO.
 
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Very true, some want to lump the EX into having the same magnitude as the D90.
I have no issues with these artifacts.
The EX is very close to what you see on the RED ONE whch is a LOT more $$$ than the EX.
 
Just from personal experience I've only noticed the "jello" during overcranked 60fps stuff i've shot. And that's only when those shots have been handheld, with a good amount of movement. And it's usually the stuff before and after the shot I when the action's not taking place yet.

I bought the EX1 mostly for narrative work, but have done a few weddings with it. So far, so good. Everything has come out really nice. Of course there are some of the flash issues to deal with, but the half exposed frames really don't seem out of place to the average viewer. They just recognize it as any other camera flash. And if there's any section where it gets particularly bad, I can fix it in post, something I don't really mind doing since I'm a full time editor anyway.
 
I have never seen jello on my EX1, not even on overcranked shots. Though I have only shot a few shorts with it so I guess it remains to be seen whether jello will appear later.
 
GaryOldman said:
On vimeo I saw a clip from the EX3 where the shooter panned across a picket fence, and the wobble was horrific. But then, he was specifically looking to point out flaws. And was perhaps misusing the camera. I don't know. I'm praying this beautiful piece of equipment will suit me fine with zooms and pans and hand held work. Thanks!
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That "EX3" user may have been me. Was it this video? http://www.vimeo.com/1451404

Yes, I was deliberately demonstrating how "bad" the EX1 could look with the skew issue. How often do I pan very hard across picket fences? 1 in a million? One in a trillion? I personally have never done/thought to do such a shot until these tests.

The running test on the same video I think is most telling that this skew/wobble issue isn't that much of an issue at all.

What it really boils down to is what matters most to you. That's the most important question. Do the pros of the camera outweigh the cons?

For me recording time, low light capability and resolution were my highest priorities because I do mostly event/documentary work where extra lighting may not be wanted/allowed/possible. The HVX line of cameras just cannot shoot for very long without offloading memory cards or being tethered to a hard drive.

And I am a pixel peeper with a big screen HDTV and am just so used to seeing crystal clear HD programming that I knew I wanted a camera that could deliver that type of image quality. And I also wanted something that I could occasionally shoot independent films with.

The EX1 really satisfied my needs as THE workhorse camera that could be used in almost every situation. It has yet to fail me in what I demanded of it.

As far as the CMOS/camera flash issue...have you watched any TV lately? Especially Access Hollywood or Extra or one of those gossip shows with tons of camera flashes? They're obviously using CMOS based cameras (maybe EX1s/EX3s) and obviously the producers of the shows don't think it's much of a problem for their viewers. If I didn't make video for a living I probably wouldn't notice either.
 
I shoot sports, sometimes bicycle racing, often extreme sports that have fairly high amounts of panning involved... might i be a bad candidate for this camera? I love the quality of the images I have seen from it but am scared that sports might be asking for rolling shutter trouble.

Thanks.
 
Will people be looking at the blurring trees in the background or the subject matter you are following with the pan? The subject will be uneffected as it is not moving across frame with any real speed and I have yet see anyone who has mentions an object moving in frame (vs a frame moving over a static object) generating any form of noticable skew.
 
GaryOldman said:
Months ago Phillip Bloom's EX videos convinced me to pursue XDCAM. Then all the hoopla about jello vision and rolling shutter artifacts came out and I was unsure again.

I'm convinced for good now, though.

Getting my EX1 with three 16gb SxS cards next week from B&H, and will start alerting clients to my impending HD abilities. Thanks to everyone that replied, particularly admar316. You guys rock.
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Congrats! I'm sure you'll love it. And you're welcome.
 
It's possble you may see some skew during fast pans. If you're concerned, go with the HPX170. It's a decent camera and will not have the CMOS "possible" issues.

The best solution is to actually try an EX under your conditions and see for yourself.
 
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