Liam Hall
Veteran
I know what you mean Sam, and agree, in part, but let's not go down that rabbit hole, I'm interested in solutions to the question asked not a debate on whether it is the right question.
FS7: It's a heavy beast !!!
- Thread starter bigmouthmedia
- Start date
From my perspective, it’s a moot point, Sam. We’re producing a new doc and broadcast acquisition reqs say what they say. Whether the punter can tell the difference is above my pay grade and if my rushes get audited and they don’t meet spec, Our expensive production gets canned ��
Clermond
Veteran
I read it. -> A7III as a B cam <- 8 bit only.
I shoot a lot with the GH5 handheld. It works great but you have to be open to try something different
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Run&Gun
Veteran
I get "the fs7 is not 4K" argument, but don't understand what you mean by "XAVC is not 4K". As a codec, XAVC is most certainly(capable of) 4K. Sony white paper says it's good for 4096x2160/60.
Exactly, the FS7 is the hottest camera on the market right now (and has been so for a few years, which means a question could be asked is when will its peak be?) for the low-mid priced segment.
If you can't find the demand for it then that might be a problem with your clients (or yourself?) rather than the camera itself.
I will agree that the Panasonic EVA1 is impressive!
Closer to FS5 in price/size, but closer to a PMW-F5 in specs/features.
What is wrong with a BP-U90 battery on the FS7? That runs it for ages, and keeps the camera very compact without needing to use a vlock battery.
You seem to not know that the FS7 and Z280 can take the same BP-U batteries! Looks like there is a lot you could learn about the FS7 before dismissing it so quickly....
I've said this a few times already, it is what I like the least about the EVA1
That the Panasonic put out the EVA1 in only EF mount, not even using their own MFT mount! wtf
Simple, just bring a 24-70mm f2.8 lens instead.
Or change around the order of the shots, so you only need to make one lens change. Easy!
JPNola
Veteran
For some in the business the individual who is creatively in charge of the photography ( videography ) is "the DP". Even if working alone. Especially if implementing lighting such as lighting interviews. So by that usage, yes, many DP's use Fs7 cameras.
I get what you are saying about a lighting department being necessary for someone to be acting as a "DP". After all, "DP" does stand for "Director of Photography" and the Director of Photography isn't directing inanimate objects such as lights. The DP is directing, or "instructing", human beings that are part of the crew. The DP is the leader of the assemblage of individuals working in the Camera Dept., Lighting Dept, and Grip Department. So, in that sense, if you are a one-man band or part of a two-person crew wherein one person is in charge of the photography and lighting and a Sound Op assists in that, no, not really a "DP". It is akin to "band leader". If you are playing solo, you can't really be "the band leader" because you aren't leading anyone.
Executing the lighting solo, without a lighting crew- you're really more of a Videographer / Photographer.
Directing lighting crew / grip crew that executes the lighting per your instruction- you're serving as the DP.
If you have a Gaffer on the crew working under you, you're definitely serving as the "DP".
I think people started using "DP" in order to differentiate from "Videographer" as "Videographer" became associated with Wedding Videographer and News Videographer ( or News Cameraman, later News Cameraperson. ). Using "DP" was a means of elevating the role beyond the sort of work performed by wedding shooters and news shooters who rarely lit anything and when they did weren't all that careful or artful about it. Calling someone a "DP" was a way to say they weren't just a hack but someone who was artful about the image creation and strived for high quality. As opposed to someone who just used lights in order to bring up the illumination sufficiently to acquire an image. The person who just slapped up one of two front lights.
Personally, I am okay with "Photographer" and "Photographer" applies for individuals working solo and for individuals directing a crew. The DP is the Photographer. One who happens to have a crew that he directs in execution of the photography.
A Field Producer I know jokes:
Q: What is the difference between a Videographer and a DP?
A: A DP gives a sh*t.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Of course - a 24-70 (or 28-85 like I use) - my response was to another poster suggesting the two sigma zooms (18-35 and 50-150) to cover everything.
When shooting actuality or semi structured actuality one cannot always change the shot order, as I mentioned when cooking steak, demolishing a building or whatever you probably are not goiong to get multiple goes.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I agree it is possilbe to DP a crewless project. One could, for example, make a very specific choice to shoot a feature with natural light and one lens.
My point is that I dont think Mitch (who used the phrase DP) understands the amount of difficulties the reduced lensing options (driven by the EF mount) on the EVA can cause to the people who might own and use it.
He says he interacts with 'DPs' who are happy with the lens mount. Fair enough - most DPs use primes or have access to full cine glass - but most videographers, and the FS7 and Eva1 are used for videography, need affordable intelligently ranged zoom lenses to help the capture actuality.
The affordable, intelligently ranged zoom lenses are.. 24-105+booster, Sony 18-110, only - there are no other choices at all and neither fit the EVA.
To understand his user base and thier requirements he should, therefore, interact with DPs when gaining feedback on the Varicam and when getting feedback on the EVA he should interact with videographers who would use a camera like this as a primary business tool.
(a dp would probably use an EVA for car shots as a C cam to a couple of a varis, not as an A cam - lens mount ?- no problem)
Yep - videographer is a duff word - so maybe 'solo actuality shooter' would be better.
As it happens I find the 'DP' role to be easy while shooting solo actuality, news and weddings is more challenging both mentally physically and technically (ie kit wise)
Dps dont moan about the mass of thier camera - they have someone to carry it or at least the actors dont start performing until they arrive and are set. Its the solo shooters who have the more demanding requirements for small low mass packages with great zoom ranges
I think Mitch would be better to listen to the needs of posters such as Ben who have shot professionally in remote locations, Ben recently took delivery of the 18-110 and I guess would be most loath to lose it
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Mitch Gross
Veteran
I think the point was that in order to use the BP-U batteries one must forgo the extension back on the FS7. That means losing certain functionality.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
I agree it is possilbe to DP a crewless project. One could, for example, make a very specific choice to shoot a feature with natural light and one lens.
My point is that I dont think Mitch (who used the phrase DP) understands the amount of difficulties the reduced lensing options (driven by the EF mount) on the EVA can cause to the people who might own and use it.
He says he interacts with 'DPs' who are happy with the lens mount. Fair enough - most DPs use primes or have access to full cine glass - but most videographers, and the FS7 and Eva1 are used for videography, need affordable intelligently ranged zoom lenses to help the capture actuality.
The affordable, intelligently ranged zoom lenses are.. 24-105+booster, Sony 18-110, only - there are no other choices at all and neither fit the EVA.
To understand his user base and thier requirements he should, therefore, interact with DPs when gaining feedback on the Varicam and when getting feedback on the EVA he should interact with videographers who would use a camera like this as a primary business tool.
(a dp would probably use an EVA for car shots as a C cam to a couple of a varis, not as an A cam - lens mount ?- no problem)
Yep - videographer is a duff word - so maybe 'solo actuality shooter' would be better.
As it happens I find the 'DP' role to be easy while shooting solo actuality, news and weddings is more challenging both mentally physically and technically (ie kit wise)
Dps dont moan about the mass of thier camera - they have someone to carry it or at least the actors dont start performing until they arrive and are set. Its the solo shooters who have the more demanding requirements for small low mass packages with great zoom ranges
I think Mitch would be better to listen to the needs of posters such as Ben who have shot professionally in remote locations, Ben recently took delivery of the 18-110 and I guess would be most loath to lose it
Please don’t put words in my mouth or thoughts in my head. I used the term DP because some consider it derogatory to use something else. I certainly get that there are many shooting environments and all sorts of working conditions. Sometimes you’re surrounded by 20 people, sometimes you’re all alone. I was a “human being who used moving picture imaging devices and was paid for it” for a few decades, and I do know what it is like to shoot when I’m the only person even remotely technical — or even the only person period. I do know what it is like and I’m not so presumptive to claim that I know better than any of you, even though some of you feel it just fine to reach overarching conclusions and claim to know what is the best as an absolute. So I do get what you are saying and I do understand what your position is and why you have it. But I do not take it as an absolute because there are others who are doing just fine thank you with other cameras and lens choices.
Well I didnt say everything
.. it was a point that cheaper zooms are usually no faster than T4 if your lucky.. expensive ones are a bit better at 2.8.. but cost alot and are heavy.. that will never change with current technology.. my point.. the sigmas are very cheap..T2.. and cover a very large range with oner lens change.. end of point.. re is the Fs7 4K.. doesn't matter.. what matters is the production say its a 4K shoot.. your camera is "recognized " as a 4K camera.. you get the job.. so for a freelancer .. yes you need a "4K" camera..morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Firstly I think a DP is a role not owned by many camera operators.
Im making (after 20 years shooting including 'DPing' a small released feature) small steps towards being an actual DP. This responsibility of the DP role came particularly to the fore a couple of weekends ago where there were some (potential - not actual) safety issues on set with child talent. Certain procedures were lacking in other departments. I was able to keep a clean nose as 'DP' as the camera and lighting was correctly set to provide a safe working environment for the junior talent. By holding responsibility for safe cast and crew I was being a DP in a way that many solo ops would not do.
Ive worked on multiple shoots where fantastic operators (and lovely people) were in no way equipped with the correct experience or skillset to be the DP.
DP is a different job to shooter of whatever nature.
I agree that we lack a good phrase for shooter with artistic talent - but DP is not it.
--
As for the EVA and its lens mount - well I think you would sell a pile more if you offered a short flange option let us leave it at that.. particularly when you also have the fine Gh455s cameras in your ecosystem
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G
Guest
Guest
Firstly I think a DP is a role not owned by many camera operators.
Im making (after 20 years shooting including 'DPing' a small released feature) small steps towards being an actual DP. This responsibility of the DP role came particularly to the fore a couple of weekends ago where there were some (potential - not actual) safety issues on set with child talent. Certain procedures were lacking in other departments. I was able to keep a clean nose as 'DP' as the camera and lighting was correctly set to provide a safe working environment for the junior talent. By holding responsibility for safe cast and crew I was being a DP in a way that many solo ops would not do.
Ive worked on multiple shoots where fantastic operators (and lovely people) were in no way equipped with the correct experience or skillset to be the DP.
DP is a different job to shooter of whatever nature.
I agree that we lack a good phrase for shooter with artistic talent - but DP is not it.
--
As for the EVA and its lens mount - well I think you would sell a pile more if you offered a short flange option let us leave it at that
Well said on both fronts.
(While I agree ideologically with you, sadly the term Director of Photography is now the fancy term for camera person or shooter, as well, and encompasses a lot of jobs involving motion image capture. terms change. In this case it is a sad change. I miss being able to say cameraman or shooter, but now I have to call myself a DP. I am hardly a DP. One guy I know thought that DP meant director and photographer. Whatever DP used to mean or means now, it is kind of a free for all. Once it loses its charm, we may emerge with something new. And yeah, would be nice to be able to put some Minolta M's on an EVA, but it is still a compelling camera, I just don't use Canon mount glass.)
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As for the EVA and its lens mount - well I think you would sell a pile more if you offered a short flange option let us leave it at that.. particularly when you also have the fine Gh455s cameras in your ecosystem
Exactly, when Panasonic already offers such great cameras with their GH5 and GH5S (just to name but two of their existing MFT cameras) then there would be more synergy / cross promotion across their lines if the Panasonic EVA1 also had a MFT mount!
Clermond
Veteran
the problem with m43 lenses is that the exsisting lenses are made for the small m43 sensor and not for the bigger s35 sensor of the EVA.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
But there are folk who have a Gh4/5 whatever kitted out with nikkor, canon, canon FD, that also goes on thier sony Emount.
Ive not needed to invest in new glass through my entire camera motion picture journey (D90 5d, Fs100, pmwF3, GH4, Black magic 4k MFT, FS7 etc) - it feels like the Canon mount 'forces' me into buying new glass.
not to mention losing a real iris?
Also the EVA could/should/(does?) offer a MFT mode which would be great for actuality shooting-and would cover those whose GH4/5/6 glass doesnt cover.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Soorry to the OP if this is an EVA thread. But it is relevant. Yes the FS7 is a bit heavy, the EVA may trim some oz, but only if it can match the function of the FS7 would it be a contender
Clermond
Veteran
you won't build up a new product based on adapted glass.
Sony E-Mount would have been the best solution. It has a short flange,
there's a huge range of nativee-mount lenses.