FS7: It's a heavy beast !!!
- Thread starter bigmouthmedia
- Start date
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Owning two zooms does not mean minimal lens changes in all situations.
I think that is a bit of a falacy.
FOr example if you shot list goes like this..
18
35
70
70
35
70
70
You could change lenses a lot with that combo.
Dumb shot list..? not really.
shot 1 - wide gv of the action
shot 2 MCU of person
shot 3 ECU of face
shot 4 ECU of hands
shot 2 MCU of person
shot 3 ECU of face
shot 4 ECU of hands
Or a two person interview
35
70
35
70
35
I think that is a bit of a falacy.
FOr example if you shot list goes like this..
18
35
70
70
35
70
70
You could change lenses a lot with that combo.
Dumb shot list..? not really.
shot 1 - wide gv of the action
shot 2 MCU of person
shot 3 ECU of face
shot 4 ECU of hands
shot 2 MCU of person
shot 3 ECU of face
shot 4 ECU of hands
Or a two person interview
35
70
35
70
35
Clermond
Veteran
I second all what you listed Mitch
but after you have attached a proper viewfinder and a CORE battery with d-tap out it isn't that small and lightweight anymore.
I purchased the EVA-1 some weeks ago but I still have my FS7.
The downside of the EVA is the EF mount, I really miss a lens like the SONY 18-110 and the easy adaption
of my C-FD and CY vintage glass
Also the SD card media is something am am not very happy about. The SD cards are too fragile for
tough condition. I had a lot of broken cards over the years and it was only from B-Cams like a6300 and GH5.
The 400mbs all-I files don't play well in FCPX.
But custom white balance in V-Log is kind of priceless and the image from Scene2 setting is
something I never achieved with the scene files of the FS7. If you read back in the forum you
will see that I spent a lot of time on that.
btw. FS7 for sale. 342hrs, VAT reverse charge in EU. PM me if you are interested
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Well surely logic would dictate that if you have 18-35 in one lens and 50-100 in another.. you would be changing lenses alot less than a box full of primes .. ?
Re the shot list.. I would shoot all the shots needed on the one lens and then all the others that needed on the longer .. one change.. they dont have to shoot in order.. just tick off the ones you have done.. when your talking about a controlled shoot.. ie do the 18-35mm ones first.. then your close ups.. as per your shot list..
Re the shot list.. I would shoot all the shots needed on the one lens and then all the others that needed on the longer .. one change.. they dont have to shoot in order.. just tick off the ones you have done.. when your talking about a controlled shoot.. ie do the 18-35mm ones first.. then your close ups.. as per your shot list..
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
That logic breaks when you shoot actuality..
Consider a chef, or a team doiing an operation.
You enter and establish the space - the whole room to orientate the viewer(18, acutally ideally 16)
Then you come in on your core subject.. lets say chef chopping.
you would typically show him/her (ill call him him for simplicity) in a hands to head mid (35)
then you would bash in on his face of concentration (70)
and then show what he is concentrating on chopping carrots (70)
He then statrs chopping cucumber So you revisit the mid face and cucumber (35)
Then bash in on face (70)
and cucumber slices (70)
He then moves to steak - so you go to him and steak (35)
then face (70)
and steak and knife (70)
Then.. bla
Because your 18 shot was far enoug back, you can still cut back to it during carrots cucumber or steak.
Chef and carrots, surgeon and patient, tatoo artist and arm, graphic designer and computer.. they are all the same to film; wide, then mid cu cu, mid cu cu as the process develops.
(and some OTS too - probably 35)
So the wrong zooms have as many swaps as primes, 16 prime and a 35-70 needs a load less lens swaps than an 18-35 and 50-100 because the 35 and the 70 are not on the same lens.
As for $|10k being cheap - speed booster, 20 prime, 35-70 or 35-135 + speed booster will cost 1/5 of that and may be more useful.
Given $10k for lenses id spend on 18-80 or 18-110 (canon or sony) and blow the rest on a booster and cheap used primes.
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Yes but you mentioned a shot list with specific shots .. like I said in a controlled shoot.. Ive never shot actuality with a shoot list ?.. then I would use a CN7 and an easy rig..
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
You didnt write the shot list down.. but you did have one.. it was just in your head.
CN7 is not really light.
(which is the thread we are diverting)
CN7 is not really light.
(which is the thread we are diverting)
Mitch Gross
Veteran
I second all what you listed Mitch
but after you have attached a proper viewfinder and a CORE battery with d-tap out it isn't that small and lightweight anymore.
I'm not going to argue your various points other than to take a bit of exception to this one. I'm holding in my hand an EVA1 with a Gratical Eye and a CoreSWX battery and it's still a pretty slim & trim setup. A Wooden Camera modified BMD EVF is even more petite. You can go big or small with the way you mount your eyepiece but if you keep it simple then the kit will still be a lot smaller & lighter than an FS7.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
On the question of lens choices, shot lists and zoom ranges; no two DPs approach this the same way which is why we have many options available. Some will choose a single zoom with a large range and work with that while others find a pair of short zooms work well and have advantages and others still prefer primes, even moving the camera more to accommodate them. Horses for courses. It depends on the job and the way you choose to approach it. For most situations there is no one right or wrong answer.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Hmm
A DP is (to me) a director of the camera and lighting departments on a film set or structured commercial.
Mainly the FS7 and EVA are not used by DPs but by solo shooters capturing actuality, or mildly structured actuality (not many chefs in a resturaunt promo will prep you 10 steaks for you to direct a cooking sequence like you might get on a feature)
I would also suggest we are often shooting sequencial cuttable coverage (wide, mid, CU, noddy, Non synch wide, OTS etc) - stuff that a trained editor can use to make a film that cuts to the duration of the VO.
The Eva is to me an appealing camera.. but it has to be purchased with the (not that cheap) Canon 18-80 otherwise it is basically a non starter for this type of work - which is a shame considerinng that is is conserably lighter than the FS7
I feel there is a huge lack of zoom options in the S35 solo shooting class.
Mass being the topic of this thread
A DP is (to me) a director of the camera and lighting departments on a film set or structured commercial.
Mainly the FS7 and EVA are not used by DPs but by solo shooters capturing actuality, or mildly structured actuality (not many chefs in a resturaunt promo will prep you 10 steaks for you to direct a cooking sequence like you might get on a feature)
I would also suggest we are often shooting sequencial cuttable coverage (wide, mid, CU, noddy, Non synch wide, OTS etc) - stuff that a trained editor can use to make a film that cuts to the duration of the VO.
The Eva is to me an appealing camera.. but it has to be purchased with the (not that cheap) Canon 18-80 otherwise it is basically a non starter for this type of work - which is a shame considerinng that is is conserably lighter than the FS7
I feel there is a huge lack of zoom options in the S35 solo shooting class.
Mass being the topic of this thread
G
Guest
Guest
I totally agree, the EVA is extremely light. The only thing is if the operator needs to be very incognito, then yeah, a mirrorless cam is the way to go, but an EVA is going to be more practical an likely better than any built out camera that is smaller.
I’ve tried going with smaller camera builds often. But it always ends up going back to something about the size of Red DSMC. Not that i like the DSMC for handheld. They are heavy duty bodies, and an A7, 5D, GH built out is going to have better weight distribution, and less strain on your forearms. But EVA and to a lesser degree the FS5 are at least worth exploring. While not as versatile in size as a mirrorless body, it is possibly easier to control. Worth a look.
I hope that someone brings back the user controls of the 60D. That was damn near the perfect video camera for ultra compact shooting!
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Hmm
A DP is (to me) a director of the camera and lighting departments on a film set or structured commercial.
Mainly the FS7 and EVA are not used by DPs but by solo shooters capturing actuality, or mildly structured actuality (not many chefs in a resturaunt promo will prep you 10 steaks for you to direct a cooking sequence like you might get on a feature)
I would also suggest we are often shooting sequencial cuttable coverage (wide, mid, CU, noddy, Non synch wide, OTS etc) - stuff that a trained editor can use to make a film that cuts to the duration of the VO.
The Eva is to me an appealing camera.. but it has to be purchased with the (not that cheap) Canon 18-80 otherwise it is basically a non starter for this type of work - which is a shame considerinng that is is conserably lighter than the FS7
I feel there is a huge lack of zoom options in the S35 solo shooting class.
Mass being the topic of this thread
Well there are quite a few out there now compared to even 3 years ago.. there are just physical /technical limitations that cannot be over come at the moment anyway .. everyone wants a 15-150mm T2 zoom that weights 2kg and costs $5,000.. but that just won't happen..
The weight factor in my experience has been very job-specific. Almost any FS7 rig will be a lot lighter than an equivalent Phantom or Alexa (/Amira) configuration. You do need to spend some time getting everything properly (ergonomically) balanced, or you'll end up with a sore right arm...
Although I do own and use five Sony cameras, I found myself buying an EVA1 for a job I'd previously been shooting with an F3 - with a small through-the-lens prompter attached to the camera (7" prompter screen). The EVA1 allowed me to keep the features I needed/wanted from the F3 (Time Code Input, Clear Scan - or whatever Pana calls it, color that I really like, plus multiple outputs- even when shooting 4k) and build the entire rig including shoulder mount with dual handles, teleprompter, prime lens and battery, all coming in at just under 13 pounds. F3 was a lot heavier and more cumbersome. With the F3/prompter rig the weight would start getting to me some time after lunch, but with the light weight of the EVA1 I wasn't feeling that bogged down, even at the end of the 30+ pages of dialogue for the day. And every day I'm doubly thankful that no-one insisted that we do everything with an Amira!
Although I do own and use five Sony cameras, I found myself buying an EVA1 for a job I'd previously been shooting with an F3 - with a small through-the-lens prompter attached to the camera (7" prompter screen). The EVA1 allowed me to keep the features I needed/wanted from the F3 (Time Code Input, Clear Scan - or whatever Pana calls it, color that I really like, plus multiple outputs- even when shooting 4k) and build the entire rig including shoulder mount with dual handles, teleprompter, prime lens and battery, all coming in at just under 13 pounds. F3 was a lot heavier and more cumbersome. With the F3/prompter rig the weight would start getting to me some time after lunch, but with the light weight of the EVA1 I wasn't feeling that bogged down, even at the end of the 30+ pages of dialogue for the day. And every day I'm doubly thankful that no-one insisted that we do everything with an Amira!
Clermond
Veteran
The 18-80 is quite slow. For me the limit with the EVA for a clean image is ISO 1000 (rated 2500 and dialled down to 1000) under
good conditions maybe 1600. Imagine how much light you will need in your script scenario with a slow lens like the T4.4 Canon.
That's for me the reason not going for the 18-80 as it isn't that versatile on the EVA than you might think at the first sight.
There ARE some zoom options but not for the ef-mount.
With an e-mount Sigma 24-70/2.8 and a speed-booster you can cover a range of 17-70 f2-f2.8
Did I ever mention that imho it was not the best decision to go for EF mount? :-(
For the Canon C-series it's clear that there no choice in lens mount but the C300II is way better in low light
than the EVA and the FS7 too.
Regarding the weight:
I have both side by side, FS7 18-110 Swit 8U93 and EVA-1, Sigma 24-70, CORE battery, Gratical Eye
both same mic, same small base plate, smallRig top plate with same handle
The EVA has almost 6kg / 13lbs and the difference is nothing I feel as lighter.
Same with the size. As I noted before: if you add some accessoires there is no big
difference in handling.
As I am willing to accept the downsides of limited lens selection and low light weakness
you can draw the conclusion that the image is really superb
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Liam Hall
Veteran
The FS7 is fine as it is, most of the time. You can use it like a 'full sized' broadcast camera or a 'mid sized' cinema camera or you can strip it back to something not much heavier than a DSLR. I shoot a lot of handheld and there really is a point at which having a camera that is too light becomes an issue and you need to use a gimbal, which could be useful or could be a hinderance.
Generally, I use an A7III as a B cam, often on a gimbal or motion control head and rarely use it in place of my FS7, occasionally though, a small, light camera would be very useful, not a hybrid stills cam like my A7III but a proper designed video camera - something with a smaller sensor. So, what are the current best little cams out there? Anything with 10bit log would be great.
Generally, I use an A7III as a B cam, often on a gimbal or motion control head and rarely use it in place of my FS7, occasionally though, a small, light camera would be very useful, not a hybrid stills cam like my A7III but a proper designed video camera - something with a smaller sensor. So, what are the current best little cams out there? Anything with 10bit log would be great.
There's the rub. 10 bit - and no point going for just HD. 10 bit 4K.
The new BMD micro cinema looks interesting (but MFT mount). I've got my fingers crossed that Sony might sneak in 10 bit 4K on the A7S3. Then all my very nice E Mount lenses will slot straight in and I can stop thinking about this stuff for another a couple of years, until Netflix want 8K...
If the EVA had been released with an active E Mount, I think there would be a lot of used FS7s on the market - I think they came to the party too late with an EF Mount.
To the OP point, the Z280 does look interesting to me - I can't consider the Z90 because I can't deliver 4k docs with an 8 bit camera.
In the meantime, I've "improved" my FS7 with a Gratical Eye and Axis.
Ben.
Clermond
Veteran
it exists, it's called GH5/GH5s
I acquired it as B-cam because I was sick of the rolling shutter of my a6300.
The color science was so convincing that I ended at the EVA-1
LOG with custom white balance is priceless.
Liam Hall
Veteran
You might want to read my earlier post. I've got a mirrorless B camera already. I'm looking for a dedicated 'small' video camera with pro features.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I dont know the obsession with '4k' - the Fs7 is not 4k, XAVC is not 4k, no a7s is 4k, 4k raw is 4k.
Anyone apart from me done side by sides bmc micro (raw HD) vs FS7 '4k' ?
Anyone apart from me done side by sides bmc micro (raw HD) vs FS7 '4k' ?