FS7: It's a heavy beast !!!

James0b57 said:
Just a courtesy reminder, not all PL lenses can fit in EF adapter mounts. Zeiss CP and CZ do not fit, for example.
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Very good point. But in that specific example, the CP's and CZ's have (user*) swappable mounts between EF and PL mount.

*presuming you know exactly which shims you need for each mount.
 
morgan_moore said:
He is indeed a good one.. and also I guess a way to get Panny do do a short flange EVA.

While he fails to acknowledge that that is a good idea, we will have to happily disagree with no hard feelings.
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I don't think he ever failed "to acknowledge that that is a good idea". In early discussions on the EVA1, it was brought up many times and he explained Panasonic's reasoning behind why they went EF mount. I'd be willing to bet that personally, especially being a former shooter/DP, he'd like to see most cameras with the ability to accept all lens mounts/adapters, too, just like most of us.
 
JPNola said:
For some in the business the individual who is creatively in charge of the photography ( videography ) is "the DP". Even if working alone. Especially if implementing lighting such as lighting interviews. So by that usage, yes, many DP's use Fs7 cameras.

I get what you are saying about a lighting department being necessary for someone to be acting as a "DP". After all, "DP" does stand for "Director of Photography" and the Director of Photography isn't directing inanimate objects such as lights. The DP is directing, or "instructing", human beings that are part of the crew. The DP is the leader of the assemblage of individuals working in the Camera Dept., Lighting Dept, and Grip Department. So, in that sense, if you are a one-man band or part of a two-person crew wherein one person is in charge of the photography and lighting and a Sound Op assists in that, no, not really a "DP". It is akin to "band leader". If you are playing solo, you can't really be "the band leader" because you aren't leading anyone.

Executing the lighting solo, without a lighting crew- you're really more of a Videographer / Photographer.

Directing lighting crew / grip crew that executes the lighting per your instruction- you're serving as the DP.

If you have a Gaffer on the crew working under you, you're definitely serving as the "DP".


I think people started using "DP" in order to differentiate from "Videographer" as "Videographer" became associated with Wedding Videographer and News Videographer ( or News Cameraman, later News Cameraperson. ). Using "DP" was a means of elevating the role beyond the sort of work performed by wedding shooters and news shooters who rarely lit anything and when they did weren't all that careful or artful about it. Calling someone a "DP" was a way to say they weren't just a hack but someone who was artful about the image creation and strived for high quality. As opposed to someone who just used lights in order to bring up the illumination sufficiently to acquire an image. The person who just slapped up one of two front lights.

Personally, I am okay with "Photographer" and "Photographer" applies for individuals working solo and for individuals directing a crew. The DP is the Photographer. One who happens to have a crew that he directs in execution of the photography.

A Field Producer I know jokes:

Q: What is the difference between a Videographer and a DP?

A: A DP gives a sh*t.
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I still think the "across the pond" term they have, "Lighting Cameraman", describes what most of us do best. Most of us are not true DP's, even though a lot of clients like to call us that and a LOT of people like to call THEMSELVES that.
 
It's funny, but I have called myself a cinematographer/lighting cameraman for some time now and seem to get more inquiries from UK producers. We could argue about "cinematographer" but that's another thread. I do work as a true "DP" on occasion, but have never considered myself one (in the traditional sense of the word) at least as I understand it.

Hope OP wasn't too offended when I assumed he was a millennial, a group I just love poking fun at. But I should be more careful, those X,Y and Millennial's now comprise a very large part of my clientele.

I guess I have a habit of thinking I'm one of the last boomers left standing (mostly upright) in this business.
 
Run&Gun said:
Very good point. But in that specific example, the CP's and CZ's have (user*) swappable mounts between EF and PL mount.

*presuming you know exactly which shims you need for each mount.
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What ends up happening, is budget gets stretched and spending $400 on lens adapters per lens adds up. Difficult to rent the zeiss interchangeable lens mounts themselves.

Either way, just a heads up. :)
 
morgan_moore said:
As the marketeer of the lightest (4k10bitXLR ?) S35 camera this is an odd postition to apparently think is cool.

Time to drop the macho era maybe?

--

I love light cameras - because they bring more shots to the party - overheads, low angles, small jibs, gimbals. These shots take serious grip to produce with larger camera systems.
Yep on the shoulder a bit of inertia (not mass) is good - no problems - strap on a Vlock to your small camera.
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Lighten up Sam, it was clearly a joke.
 
James0b57 said:
Just a courtesy reminder, not all PL lenses can fit in EF adapter mounts. Zeiss CP and CZ do not fit, for example.
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FYI, the Wooden Camera PL mount for the EVA1 is a retrofit, not an adapter. As such it allows 99% of PL mount lenses to fit on the camera.
 
morgan_moore said:
While he fails to acknowledge that that is a good idea, we will have to happily disagree with no hard feelings.
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It is not my position to agree or disagree. As an employee of Panasonic, I will happily explain features of the camera as well as why certain decisions were made when possible. An explanation is not a justification good, bad or indifferent.

Panasonic does make several interchangeable or adaptable mount cameras, including the GH-series as well as the VariCam LT (EF & PL). While the EVA1 is not, it doesn’t mean we are against it or never will make another model.
 
Chaps - time has moved on in 90% of production environments.

The expectation now is to be able (for example) to hang a camera over a meal or even bed without employing a professional grip.

Because your opposition can do that with their gh5 producers expect it.

In that environment a 2/3 camera becomes an non starting antique beast and an fs7 heavy.

So the “heaviness” metric is dependent on your production environment.
 
morgan_moore said:
Chaps - time has moved on in 90% of production environments.

The expectation now is to be able (for example) to hang a camera over a meal or even bed without employing a professional grip.

Because your opposition can do that with their gh5 producers expect it.

In that environment a 2/3 camera becomes an non starting antique beast and an fs7 heavy.

So the “heaviness” metric is dependent on your production environment.
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You can do that. With your GH5 as you say. And then you use you regular camera for all your regular shots.

Thinking that you are going to be able to do everything possible with a tool that fits in your pocket is equally as quaint as thinking that every job will have a crew of 20.
 
Mitch Gross said:
You can do that. With your GH5 as you say. And then you use you regular camera for all your regular shots.

Thinking that you are going to be able to do everything possible with a tool that fits in your pocket is equally as quaint as thinking that every job will have a crew of 20.
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Exactly. Why would I want to use a camera 100% of the time that really only shines in 5% of the(specialized) situations and is going to handicap me and make my job harder the other 95%?

But as Sam said there at the end, it's "dependent on your production environment". And for me, I'm better served the vast majority of the time by my VariCam of F55.
 
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Mitch Gross said:
You can do that. With your GH5 as you say. And then you use you regular camera for all your regular shots.

Thinking that you are going to be able to do everything possible with a tool that fits in your pocket is equally as quaint as thinking that every job will have a crew of 20.
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Once again I find it most odd that I seem to believe that the Eva is very close to being a “pocket able” camera with nearly the capabilities of a full size camera yet you don’t seem to see that or promote it :)

Even the Venice crowd appreciate a small camera head as we see that top end Venice modification is to saw it in half :)
 
morgan_moore said:
Once again I find it most odd that I seem to believe that the Eva is very close to being a “pocket able” camera with nearly the capabilities of a full size camera yet you don’t seem to see that or promote it :)

Even the Venice crowd appreciate a small camera head as we see that top end Venice modification is to saw it in half :)
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But again, that's for specialized situations, not for the vast majority of the use of that camera. No one is questioning that "small" cameras don't have their uses, at times. But for a lot of people, that small size is a hinderance for operation, not a benefit.
 
morgan_moore said:
Once again I find it most odd that I seem to believe that the Eva is very close to being a “pocket able” camera with nearly the capabilities of a full size camera yet you don’t seem to see that or promote it :)

Even the Venice crowd appreciate a small camera head as we see that top end Venice modification is to saw it in half :)
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Sam, it appears that you are thinking only of narrative productions, commercials, music videos. The sort of productions where one might hang a camera over a bed. But there is a whole world outside of that, productions where you are highly unlikely to place cameras in that way. Productions where you shoot tripod & shoulder mount near exclusively.

No camera does everything well. Yes, a big ENG-type camera is not suited to rigging over a bed or on a gimbal. But an EVA and even an ARRI Mini are not well suited to ENG shooting. There are times when weight is a benefit. You don't see many ARRI mini's or EVA's used in reality-tv or in live-tv. The lil' box cameras are not well suited to that type of production.

There are things "full size" cameras can do- SDI pool feed recording, proxy recording, Ethernet porting- that "cinema" cameras cannot.

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And here is another consideration: How many calls am I going to get where the inquirer wants an EVA? How many times am I going to have to sell someone who wanted an Fs7 or C300 on the EVA? How easy will it be to acquire a rental EVA for the times when you have a two-camera shoot and need a second EVA? In short- Is the EVA in demand in the market? ( not in my experience in my market ). Right now the EVA is a "niche" camera, like the Black Magic cameras. I've never, ever, received a call from someone looking for a Blackmagic camera. Or from anyone wanting a shooter with an EVA. Sony, Canon, and ARRI, yes. All the time. All day long.

If one only does work for which the choice of camera is solely up to the DP / Cameraperson and the clients have no preference, then that's another thing. Then you can just own whatever you fancy most.
 
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You all make valid points.

Remember this thread is by a poster who presented the thesis that the fs7 is a heavy beast.

He was effectively shouted down for that.

I agree with him in that if
A) I have to run around with it all day at pace (like when I follow the army on exercises) it is indeed heavy and I would like something lighter

B) I have/want to present “fancy” shots like gimbal or overheads it is indeed heavy and I would like something lighter.

Personally my work seems to be 90% a or b.

His thesis is therefore not ludicrous.

Does that mean - I think it is a terrible camera in terms of price/production manager approval/specs etc - not at all

I own ex1 fs7 gh4 and bm micro and usually use the FS7 with a second camera. None of those cameras I particularly like matching with the fs7 in an edit.

I do wonder though if I should/could maybe move to two Eva’s or some other simpler combo than my current “fs7+something else” setup.

I would certainly expect to hear the Eva sales person on the board suggest that that route might work :)
 
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MY issue with the EVA is that as far as I understand its really only useable as a "log" type camera and I still shoot a great deal of stuff for people who want WYSIWYG video. Morgan would say ( and has said) I'm old school but that's what many of my clients want. I love the idea of a small camera for a gimbal though and am very drawn right now to an A7III. EVA would be more attractive to me with more usability as a traditional camera.
 
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