Is this the s35 sony that is rumored?
- Thread starter dustylense
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Andrew J. Allsbury
Well-known member
Ooooo...That explains it...lol
robertrogoz
Carbonite Member
it's all about price. If they throw in a lens and HD-SDI 422 for the price of AF100, with the same codec, and similar specs Sony will simply be better buy. I must also say Sony's customer service is bar far better then JVC or Panasonic.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
I'll admit, I am definitely intrigued by it, but as they say, get what you need when you need it. I've got a project in January that I need to shoot so the AF100 absolutely wins regardless.
I'll also say I am a HUGE fan of modular design, so I cannot wait to see their take on it. As someone else stated, these really are exciting times.
I'll also say I am a HUGE fan of modular design, so I cannot wait to see their take on it. As someone else stated, these really are exciting times.
No, we haven't forgotten Scarlet. How could we? Anytime there's a thread about a new camera, the RED fans jump in and tell us how the new cameras will suck next to the Scarlet.
We got it, we heard you. Now, show me where I can buy a Scarlet right now.
Despite RED's knocks on Sony sensor design (striped RGB, Q67), I believe Sony makes the best imagers on the planet.
Everybody: GO SEE TRON, in December, shot on the F35. I'm impressed by what can be achieved by 1920x1080. The sensor isn't the same as the one used in the F3 but I think you'll get an idea of what the F3 aspires to.
I've seen a lot of movies shot on RED (Book of Eli, Social Network, District 9) and the flesh tones and coloration from F35 shows look better to me. Probably the Epic may one day change my opinion, but I was never pleased with the tones and color that I could get from Red One.
Everybody: GO SEE TRON, in December, shot on the F35. I'm impressed by what can be achieved by 1920x1080. The sensor isn't the same as the one used in the F3 but I think you'll get an idea of what the F3 aspires to.
I've seen a lot of movies shot on RED (Book of Eli, Social Network, District 9) and the flesh tones and coloration from F35 shows look better to me. Probably the Epic may one day change my opinion, but I was never pleased with the tones and color that I could get from Red One.
I've found an image about the new NXCAM.
From it you can see the price is about 60m yen, which is about $7000. According to the price Sony ever made, the price of North America and EU will be about $6K. And the final price will be about 75% of it, then it will be below $5K.
And the recording mode is 1080 24p 25p 30p 50p &60p.
Well, if the recording is 4:2:2 native, then AF-100 will be defeated.
Just wait for more information.
From it you can see the price is about 60m yen, which is about $7000. According to the price Sony ever made, the price of North America and EU will be about $6K. And the final price will be about 75% of it, then it will be below $5K.
And the recording mode is 1080 24p 25p 30p 50p &60p.
Well, if the recording is 4:2:2 native, then AF-100 will be defeated.
Just wait for more information.
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Yak
Well-known member
I've found an image about the new NXCAM.
.....Well, if the recording is 4:2:2 native, then AF-100 will be defeated.
Just wait for more information.
The recording is AVCHD 4:2:0 native. It may have the same sensor as the F3 but I am sure SONY will limit the camera so as not to compete with their end gear, for example the mock up has only 1 Mic input. Now there may be a way to rig this camera to get more use out of it than sony planed liked happened with Canon's 5D, but I will be surprised if it does what the Panasonic AF-100 does right out of the box.
Danielvilliers
Veteran
I am sure that there will be product differentiation between the two, like 444 slog etc... but we could be witnessing something quite revolutionary from a big company like Sony. The modular approach that have work so much in the dslr world or what red is implementing from the scarlet to the epic. If they give you the base image quality of the f3, that is a s35 sensor with very high dynamic range and low light quality at 10 bit for not much more than the price of the Af-100. I would not hesitate, as I already have a lot of (module) from my dslr rig. I guess many people already have external monitors, microphone etc, etc... The same as the dslr, a box giving you the basic image look without all the bell and whistle that you have to customise. People could buy back the sony module as time go buy to upgrade there nxcam.
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robertrogoz
Carbonite Member
A few more things working right out of the gate in Sony's favor:
1. Sony sells camera systems, unlike Panasonic they will have their E-mount lenses and Alpha lens adapter, which retains all the electronic functions of alpha lenses, which includes electronic iris and focus- very important for any crane work.
2. 60p, which is huge! I don't know why Panasonic can make a consumer camera with 60p, but is not putting this feature in their professional line-up? 60p in AF100 is just for overcranking, but I prefer smooth look of 60p, not some jerky blur of 24p. Back in the day, all the way to the 70's news footage was shot with 16mm, but i don't hear people complaining about non-film look on TV. I am just tired of dinosaur technology and to me 24 fps sucks.
1. Sony sells camera systems, unlike Panasonic they will have their E-mount lenses and Alpha lens adapter, which retains all the electronic functions of alpha lenses, which includes electronic iris and focus- very important for any crane work.
2. 60p, which is huge! I don't know why Panasonic can make a consumer camera with 60p, but is not putting this feature in their professional line-up? 60p in AF100 is just for overcranking, but I prefer smooth look of 60p, not some jerky blur of 24p. Back in the day, all the way to the 70's news footage was shot with 16mm, but i don't hear people complaining about non-film look on TV. I am just tired of dinosaur technology and to me 24 fps sucks.
Barry_Green
Moderator
How is this any different than Panasonic working out of the box with their Lumix lenses, which retain all the electronic functions, which includes electronic iris and focus, which would be perfectly appropriate for crane work?
The AF100 does 720/60p as 60p, and it does 1080/60p for playback as 24p. If you want 1080/60p as 60p, just change the playback rate in post. You can get the smooth look of 1080/60p. You would, however, have to record audio separately.
Well you can credit RED with breaking the mold in the first place. If it wasn't for RED, followed a couple of years later by the DSLR's, it is unlikely any of these new moderate cost large sensor motion cameras would have been developed.
The quality of color and fleshtones from Red footage is improving constantly as they upgrade their software, but I agree, it was very difficult to get good fleshtones with early RED software.
It is also very difficult to judge how natural RED footage can look from the rather extreme washed out grades of films like Book of Eli or District 9. District 9 had a lot of HDCAM-EX footage in it too.
I have seen examples of RED footage with beautifully saturated colors and very natural fleshtones too. M-X Red Ones with the latest software builds are worlds apart from what the camera looked like when Book of Eli and District 9 were shot.
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alaskacameradude
Veteran
Barry, one thing that MAY (or may not) be different, is that the possible Sony lens, could
actually be a proper video lens instead of a still camera lens with some video functions.
For example, smooth iris transition instead of a 'steppy' iris might be one improvement.
As cool as the AF 100 is (and it's pretty freaking cool) most of the lenses that will 'work'
well with the camera are first and formost 'still' lenses. Perhaps, Sony will have lenses
designed more for video work?
Barry_Green
Moderator
If we were talking about the F3 I'd agree, as it has a zoom rocker on the body. But I don't think there's any reason to think that the unnamed NXCAM would provide any other functionality over what the AF100 does, since it's in the same price bracket and no Alpha-mount lens has a servo.
robertrogoz
Carbonite Member
The difference is that Sony has something like 20 different alpha lenses, also Zeiss made a whole line of alpha lenses. There are a lot of F2.0 and 2.8- they are not cheap by any means, but the electronic functions will carry over.
720 is not 1080- you cut your resolution by 1/3. Picture without sound equals zilch- if I have to go through the hassle of using external sound device, sync it with picture, no thanks- not a bit different from DLSR, with much higher price tag.
Steve Kahn
Well-known member
That's a bit extreme but I too wonder why Panasonic was so inflexible with recording audio in overcrank/undercrank.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Because how would it sound when you played it back? It wouldn't sync, so ... what do you do with it?
Steve Kahn
Well-known member
1. For a dream sequence where you may want the sound not to match up.
2. For cut aways into other footage.
3. Just to have the audio. In many cases when shooting narrative it is just plain good to have audio for example maybe there's a character not on the screen talking as well. It is just plain good to have another take of recorded sound.
4. For nature work, for sports, for action where the sound isn't coming from lips moving but is NEEDED!
5. To have the sound to work with in post even if it's just a word or a scream or whatever. At least you have it. For example I will be shooting a short where a big hulking bodybuilder does a heavy powersquat of 500lbs in overcrank. I WANT his grunt! I don't care the sounds before or after but I need to have that grunt and would like not to have to do ADR if at all possible.
I could go on. Point is, let me decide how I'm going to use it. I don't need to be babied. I understand there will be issues in post. I promise not to complain or sue Panasonic.
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