Is the RED Scarlet Dead???

D

Denialorcoped

Well-known member
I was curious about the release of the RED Scarlet and did a google search, only to find a whole bunch or articles saying that RED announced they will not be releasing it. Wikipedia is saying the same thing. Is this true or a hoax?
 
In a word, no. Red has announced no such thing. The fixed lens Scarlet is next up for release after Epic-X. Red has changed its policy and won't say anything more about it until the camera is ready for release and in production.
 
That is an old article, and I think it is referring the the s35 scarlet which yes is probably dead in name, moving to epic s at a higher price point. The fixed lens scarlet 2/3 will be full speed ahead, and I think it will be huge in 3D production. The fact that the fixed lens can be synced electronically will be huge in that arena. I think its window is long since passed in the dreams of the shoe-string indie, but for what it can do, especially in a light 3d rig will be gold at the studio level.
 
Sorry, but up till now Scarlet has been nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Red has never produced it; all they've ever done from my point of view is hint at it, shown "prototypes" that may or may not have been actual prototypes of a proposed Scarlet design, etc. But they've never offered any kind of Scarlet for sale. So it's not really "alive" is it? And if it's never been alive, how can it be dead?

Red really hurt their own credibility with the whole Scarlet thing. Good to see they've learned from their mistakes and decided just to keep the lid on. But the damage has been done perhaps.
 
Bruce Watson said:
Sorry, but up till now Scarlet has been nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Red has never produced it; all they've ever done from my point of view is hint at it, shown "prototypes" that may or may not have been actual prototypes of a proposed Scarlet design, etc. But they've never offered any kind of Scarlet for sale. So it's not really "alive" is it? And if it's never been alive, how can it be dead?

Red really hurt their own credibility with the whole Scarlet thing. Good to see they've learned from their mistakes and decided just to keep the lid on. But the damage has been done perhaps.
Click to expand...

Scarlet has been in development and has not been released yet. In that sense it is just like every other camera that is in development, whether we know anything about it or not, that has not been released. It is only the fact that it was originally announced at the beginning of its development cycle, instead of at the end when it is ready for production, that differentiates it from any other non-released product.
Personally I have enjoyed following the development cycle of Red's new DSMC camera system, which Scarlet is part of down to sharing the same core hardware and firmware with Epic, just on a little smaller scale.
It is understandable that some people have become frustrated by the long wait. For many it seems ignorance is bliss. Don't show me anything until it is 100% complete and on sale.
It is also easy to understand why most camera makers don't share any information at all about coming models until they are completed and ready for production given the sturm and drang that has followed Scarlet over the past couple of years. You never know if their schedule was delayed due to hardware or software bugs. You never know if they are holding the next gen product back waiting on new technologies to mature and come to market. You never know if they are impacted by supplier problems, or natural disasters, or world economic conditions. You only know that at some point there is an new box on the shelf and it costs X. Boring.
RED has taken the lesson to heart and from now on will only announce new products and specifications when they are ready for release on a definite and reliable schedule. But silence doesn't mean that nothing is happening, that there isn't intense development of new products and technologies going on behind closed doors.
The next we hear of Scarlet will be when it is released. There really isn't much else that RED or anyone else can say about it until then that hasn't already been hashed over a hundred times.
I for one am still very much interested in seeing what this little camera can do.
 
Last edited:
I hope not. I would buy one, for sure. I love my RED ONE but can't justify the price of the epic. The 2/3" chip would actually be an advantage for certain things I do.
 
phudsontx said:
The 2/3" chip would actually be an advantage for certain things I do.
Click to expand...

For goodness sake, how? Please tell me. I am eager to know as I was about to start a thread about the choices of cameras and sensor sizes and their impact on directorial choices- or more specifically, is your vision and what camera that is hired influenced by the stylistic advantages of having so many sensor choices; and if not, why?
 
pharpsied said:
For goodness sake, how? Please tell me. I am eager to know as I was about to start a thread about the choices of cameras and sensor sizes and their impact on directorial choices- or more specifically, is your vision and what camera that is hired influenced by the stylistic advantages of having so many sensor choices; and if not, why?
Click to expand...

It is very simple. Sometimes shallow DOF is a disadvantage. When shooting quickly or events etc... I already own a RED ONE MX, an AF100 and a Canon 7D and they are used all the time for my business. Well, not the 7D so much, although it is rented often. I recently sold a HPX500 and I have had several clients request a more DOF friendly camera since, thus I will be forced to either buy another ENG 2/3 or hopefully a Scarlet.
 
Paul,

I'm in the same boat. We used to shoot on 2/3 pannys for lots of out productions and its a nice size for fast work. I love a large sensor but if you are trying to be fast, shallow DOF makes it a big risk. I spend every break going over the footage to make sure it right.
 
I've been following Scarlet's development (rumors) for some time, because the camera fits my needs. There was speculation and talk that once Epic-X got shipping, focus would be on Scarlet. Red also reminded us that several Scarlet prototypes had been finished and were in testing, and it was as much an issue of parts (due to the tsunami) as anything. Jarred posted superb overcranked footage on the site from Scarlet as well.

When Red announced about two weeks ago that Epic-X was about to ship someone asked Jannard about Scarlet. He reported that there was "one small lens issue" then Scarlet would go into production. That issue was not defined, but obviously led to a lot of speculation. Guesses and assumptions were that considering this was a "small" issue, and Ted had hinted in the past that Scarlet would ship probably by autumn, an October or even November ship for Scarlet was possible. But last week Philip Bloom may have unwittingly spilled the beans by tweeting that he had been to a Red seminar and was told that Scarlet was still quite a ways from being complete. He also tweeted that their new policy was no comments on Scarlet, period.

The latter I can handle. Do, don't talk. But the former is puzzling. If it was just "a small lens issue" what's the long delay? Or is Bloom wrong? Or was it really not a 'small" issue, but related to the tsunami.

My personal opinion is that Sony, Panasonic and Canon aren't going to sleep. We're already hearing talk of the new Canon S35 4k camera being announced on Nov 3rd that will cost about $15k, which could put a real dent into Epic-X, and questions the likelihood of Epic-S ever being made. Canon is also likely to release the 5D Mark III sooner rather than later. And while I am not one who thinks that the 5d compares to Scarlet, I do believe something between the 5D and this new S35 4k camera will. It just seems inevitable to me that it's only a matter of time, maybe months, before Sony, Panny or Canon release cameras between those two specs. A fixed lens camera with an larger (2/3" or even 35) chip that shoots 2k or above for under $10k that will spread like wildfire across the low-budget professional market, TV, ENG, one-man-band, and serious indie shooter niche that Scarlet is aimed. Scarlet may still have advantages in IQ, with HDRx, 3k, overcranking to 120fps, RAW, but while, if released within, say, a month or two, it would have a real chance at a great splash in the marketplace. If they instead take until EOY, or (gasp) NAB 2012, I have to wonder what else there will be there waiting? Or if not released, at least on the horizon that causes more than just curiosity.

If I were a betting man, and I'm not, I'd put my money on Panasonic putting such a camera out in 2012. Something like the HPX170, but with a larger chip, and greater zoom (as in 20x), or something like an AF100 with a fixed lens and a few less features (call it an AF80).
 
Red is dead.
Jannard, god rest him, gave the big guns a sharp kick up the backside, and for that we are eternally grateful.
But now the big guns have fired back..... AF100, FS100.... Canon on Nov. 3rd :)
Red is dead. Long live Red.
 
Paul V Doherty said:
Red is dead.
Jannard, god rest him, gave the big guns a sharp kick up the backside, and for that we are eternally grateful.
But now the big guns have fired back..... AF100, FS100.... Canon on Nov. 3rd :)
Red is dead. Long live Red.
Click to expand...

HAHA! To Quote Mark Twain, "The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated"
 
@Doherty That's gorgeous. The little company that could, and could quite whoppingly, and sacrificed itself for the greater good of digital cinema. That would be the complete opposite in attitude :) You made them seem grand with that ... I'll long live red to that.
 
Wel, I too would like to see the Epic S released. Though the directors I shoot for often want the shallow depth of field look they more often don't want to spend the time getting it and run and gun is also one of my realities. My GH1 gave me the "look" for some of the stuff but is a pain dealing with the crop factor and hacks and audio etc. The AF 100 has the same crop issues unless you go with M4/3 glass and I have a good collection of glass held over from my Brevis days. I am going to probably buy an F3 and keep my little HMC150 'till something 4.2.2. 10 bit comes out Like so many people on here and ScarletUser and RedUser I have been waiting for THE camera. I got over the "flame them" period and now just buy what I need when I can afford it and need it. Now we wait and see. Jim was certainly ahead of the pack with Red and Epic but the big guns are responding quickly with a variety of products for all markets from low budget to sky high. But I also laughed when I read the Red is Dead line. No way! I have never met the man, so unlike others I won't pretend to know what he is like. But I had dinner with a fella a few weeks ago that knows him from the early Oakley days up here in Canada and his description of the man was impressive and is said to be a relentless innovator. People like that don't just roll over....ever.
 
Looks like Scarlet is back from the dead. :)

Will be an official announcement on November 3rd, at 6pm PST. Same day as Canon's big Hollywood announcement. Reportedly an hour after the announcement you'll be able to order a Scarlet.

Shipping unknown, though Jarred strongly implied it won't be a long waiting period, so I'm guessing about two weeks, though he earlier stated very directly that it will ship before the end of the year, so the wait could be over a month. You can open an account on their site, or pay with a credit card.

Price unknown. Back in about April Ted was stating about $6,000, but Red's history is prices inch up after announcement, so I'm thinking closer to $6495 or $6995, and will be pleasantly surprised if less. Ted also implied it would come ready to go, including the RedMote, though I think there's a chance the camera will come somewhat bare. I also really don't think it will come with an SSD Redmag, which is another $950. One good thing about this is that Scarlet takes most of the same accessories as Epic. Same batteries, same CF card, same plates, etc. Though these aren't cheap. Most shooters I know of planning buying are expecting to spend between $8k and $10k anyway for camera, plus accessories.

As to specs, well, I don't think those have changed much, but Red has a history of making things better with updates and time. The camera is still very likely to have the same 2/3" chip, still shoot 3k (and less) at RAW or other codecs, have HDRx, overcrank to 120fps with bursts to 150 (ore more?) at less than RAW and probably 2k (when pressed on this a few months back Jannard said "something like that").

I most believe this camera is aimed directly at the 2/3" market, mostly shooters on the go, and will sell very well in that regard. Doc/docudrama, ENG, commercial spots, music videos, some indies, etc. and NOT trying to compete with DSLRs that have absorbed the low-budget indies, nor the true high-end filmmaker - Epic is for that market.

I also expect some sort of updated statement (or hype even) from Jannard on that day. There simply has to be more than just Scarlet if he's going head to head with Canon on that day. I expect him to say Epic-X to be at Stage-3, or even Stage-4 by then, an update on Epic-S (the one many are waiting for) or even the almost forgotten Scarlet (interchangeable). I suspect this as Red now has parts they need to build, an assembly line running well, and quite frankly it seems to me the company finally is getting it's s**t together business wise. We could also see an update on the 4k/5k projectors, and possibly some deal in the works with theaters in this regard. Also some sort of update on Red's studio, or maybe even the Red Ranch, which I believe is still just dirt.

Finally, here's a link to a Scarlet countdown timer, for those who are chomping at the bit waiting. :happy:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top