Is the EX1 Image Quality any better than the best DSLRs?

Chadfish

Chadfish

Veteran
I don't think so, but I could be wrong. What do you think?

This guy seems to think differently, and he says he can prove it with tests. Aside from a more shallow DOF, what does a DSLR image quality have over an EX1?

 
Of course the Ex1's image is far superior to any DSLR. DSLR video is compromised in many ways, not the least of which is low resolution, aliasing, moire patterns, etc.

EX1 footage is much sharper, clearer, crisper, and more robust than anything you'd get from any DSLR.
 
I feel Barry's comments are correct to a point. The problem words with the initial question are 'better' and 'image quality.'

We're doing a corporate piece right now with a 1080 deliverable, so far shot on the RED, The 5d, the GH13 (small amount), the EX1 (also a small amount), and a fair amount of GH2 footage, nearly all without the VK hack. I said, correct to a point, because the GH2 is the first DSLR that makes an image that - I THINK - rivals the EX1 in most ways, and, because we have a lot of PL Mount cinema glass, allows a larger array of lens choices.

We sold our EX1 a while ago, and I admit, I do miss having a proper (and so clear!) video camera. But with the GH2 now (and even better with the hack) I don't miss the EX1 because of the image. More because it's so easy to shoot with, and is so much easier with audio, etc. Hope that helps.
 
PS, we had the EX1r, and I REALLY appreciated the faster start time vs the original EX1. Sounds like a small thing... until you're missing the shot!!!
 
Chadfish said:
I don't think so, but I could be wrong. What do you think?

This guy seems to think differently, and he says he can prove it with tests. Aside from a more shallow DOF, what does a DSLR image quality have over an EX1?

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Sharper images?! What smack is he smoking?

Fyi, about the "richer colors" they are all broadcast illegal. Just has a whole bunch of 5D footage thrown out by a broadcaster because the signal had no timecode and was broadcast illegal.

Luckily the main camera was an F3, and they accepted the xdcam.
 
TimurCivan said:
Sharper images?! What smack is he smoking?

"Fyi, about the "richer colors" they are all broadcast illegal. Just has a whole bunch of 5D footage thrown out by a broadcaster because the signal had no timecode and was broadcast illegal."

True the 5d is very soft (let alone other problems... though we still love it for some things), but, with all due respect, couldn't you have put the 5d footage through an NLE to make it broadcast legal and snyc the clips together then too to allow a sense of timecode for the client? Or even go to tape with it (we had to for our last broadcast project... and while maddening to have to step back into another era like that, it made the client happy, and the footage got used - and very happily so)
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The high contrast of the DSLRs creates the illusion of sharp resolution, but anyone who's tested them or looked closely knows the difference. I get tired of guys like the guy in the video showing their ignorance.

What the DSLRs get you is DOF control, in addition to half the resolution, moire, aliasing and crushed blacks. You don't notice it on nature shots (trees, mountains have random patterns), portraits (faces curve away) and night shots (blacks hide the defects.)

In a way I wish Philip Bloom had never made that first DSLR movie. It steered me (and a lot of other people) in the wrong direction for awhile.
 
I don't know who would be suggesting that a DSLR is "sharper" than an EX1, but any such assertion is patently false. There have been many side-by-sides that show that the EX1 is much sharper than any DSLR. I did a side-by-side with a $1895 HMC40 that showed just how much sharper it was than a Canon 7D -- and it was a LOT sharper. Look at the SCCE results -- an EX1 wasn't there, but an F3 and an AF100 were, and they were both so much sharper than the DSLRs that when the DSLRs came up, people in the audience literally laughed out loud.

People have made gorgeous images off of the DSLRs. But it's all about the shallow DOF. If the conventional video cameras had offered the same shallow DOF as the DSLRs, they would look superior in every possible way. Which is what we're now seeing, with the first generation of proper video cameras that have large sensors.
 
I figured as such. I felt that the EX1 was a superior image, but I have not done any testing to prove it. I just don't want to argue a point without some proof. I searched around but couldn't find any head to head comparisons with some numbers and maybe zoom-ins to show whats really going on at the pixel level. I do think the GH2 has the best video image of all the DSLRs (even though it's not a DSLR!) and I am aware of the moire with all the Canons. II definitely want a GH2 to complement my 2 EX1s, but I'm bummed it does not have a proper 1080p30 mode.
 
Barry_Green said:
I don't know who would be suggesting that a DSLR is "sharper" than an EX1, but any such assertion is patently false. There have been many side-by-sides that show that the EX1 is much sharper than any DSLR. I did a side-by-side with a $1895 HMC40 that showed just how much sharper it was than a Canon 7D -- and it was a LOT sharper. Look at the SCCE results -- an EX1 wasn't there, but an F3 and an AF100 were, and they were both so much sharper than the DSLRs that when the DSLRs came up, people in the audience literally laughed out loud.

People have made gorgeous images off of the DSLRs. But it's all about the shallow DOF. If the conventional video cameras had offered the same shallow DOF as the DSLRs, they would look superior in every possible way. Which is what we're now seeing, with the first generation of proper video cameras that have large sensors.
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Right, but Barry, has it not been shown now that the GH2 can be as or nearly as sharp as the AF100. Why focus only on the Canons? Clearly the second gen has arrived, and in the case of the GH2 the image is much sharper (again, not as sharp as the EX1 but similar to the " first generation of proper video cameras that have large sensors.").
 
Chadfish said:
I figured as such. I felt that the EX1 was a superior image, but I have not done any testing to prove it.
Click to expand...

I was on a shoot this week that was a combo F3/EX3 both going out via HD-SDI to an external recorder unit and monitor. Sometimes it was not readily apparent when the feed was the F3 and when it was the EX3. I was very impressed.
 
There's no comparing the two IMO. We use the EX1r, the EX3, the 7D and the 5DMkII here, and the EX cameras don't give us near the issues the DSLRs do. Don't get me wrong, the 5D and 7D are our primary cameras for interviews or other talking heads, but that's due to the nice DOF. The 5D with the 70-200 makes for some beautiful shots, and to get the DOF with the EX1 would entail the Letus, rails, etc. Not to mention the loss of light. But working with the different cameras over the years, if I had to pick one to use for everything, I would pick up the EX1r.
 
Hawk Teflon said:
But working with the different cameras over the years, if I had to pick one to use for everything, I would pick up the EX1r.
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Yes I to am in love with this little camera, though it has it's issues. I have the original EX1, with IR contamination, and the thing ain't fun to hand hold, but man all my work looks great. I use a tripod for everything anyway. And I'll eventually get a GH2 as an option for shallow DOF and hand held with a norbert sport.
 
So nice to see I'm not the only one who believes the EX1 is one of the greatest camcorders ever released. I tried DSLR between 2008-09 and decided that I, as an event video producer deserve better than having to deal with limited record times, thermal shutdowns, card corruptions, no AF assist, no zebras, no ND filters, no Image Stabilisation etc... Shallow DOF is a dangerous drug!

Proudly shooting with two EX1s and an AF100 :)
 
Evro said:
So nice to see I'm not the only one who believes the EX1 is one of the greatest camcorders ever released. I tried DSLR between 2008-09 and decided that I, as an event video producer deserve better than having to deal with limited record times, thermal shutdowns, card corruptions, no AF assist, no zebras, no ND filters, no Image Stabilisation etc... Shallow DOF is a dangerous drug!

Proudly shooting with two EX1s and an AF100 :)
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You are definitely not alone! When it first came out it was definitely my dream camera and I knew it had staying power. A workhorse it is!

Indeed DSLRs give a better film look but for everything else the EX1 kills it. I shot a seminar/breakfast deal with one speech marathon lasting more than 3 hours. Then early next month I'll be shooting a little "filmic" skit. And I use it as an audio recorder sometimes because it's better than whatever gear some of my friends may be recording with...I just hope a PA doesn't step on it/knock it over, LOL.

I don't think the EX1's strong point is for making movies. It still has a "video" look to it that you can't escape. But like Hawk said if you need a camera that can do everything the EX1 is it. For me, films don't pay the bills. The corporate and wedding shoots DEMAND longer recording and robustness. But when I want to shoot something for fun or whatever and have it look like a movie I can get close. It's just too bad it seems like people are more gear obssessed than content obsessed. And they're viewing videos online and not on a broadcast monitor (or TV for that matter).

That being said, the cowboy movie was awesome and I forgot I was watching a video to see how good the EX1 looks (albeit on YouTube).
 
Gary Huff said:
I was on a shoot this week that was a combo F3/EX3 both going out via HD-SDI to an external recorder unit and monitor. Sometimes it was not readily apparent when the feed was the F3 and when it was the EX3. I was very impressed.
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I have the EX1 and an F3. The EX1 zoomed in can look very much like the F3 zoomed out. Sadly I'll probably have to sell my EX1 and Letus Extreme. The F3 ain't cheap.

I also have had two DSLRs (one now). The DSLR looks great online, but not when you blow it up. I strongly suggest you look at part two of the Zacuto big sensor shoot out. Its very enlightening. (Firefox can't see the video.)

http://www.zacuto.com/the-great-camera-shootout-2011/episode-two

The DSLRs do have decent dynamic range and DOF control, but resolution, moire and aliasing on top of compression issues are too big in many situations other than webcast.
 
Of all the DSLRs, the GH2 is the one I'll be getting when funds allow. But still, Adam, when I shoot progressive on the EX1 it looks filmic to me. It just doesn't have such a shallow DOF, but to me it dies not look like "video". To me the "video" look is that of interlaced frames, with that glassy appearance.
 
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