Is the DVX-100B Obsolete because of 4x3 format?

L

lencap

New member
Basically, I'm trying to decide where to go - and SD is still viable for the volunteer work I do. I've considered the HVX200 - like the formats/flexibility, but having a hard time justifying the P2 card expense and lack of long term storage solutions.

Your experience is appreciated. I've searched several topics on this and the answers seem to vary widely. With the advent of Nano Flash and other products, I'm not sure which way to go.

I've located a low hour DVX-100b for asle locally. I've never owned this camera, but I've had a XL2 that worked well for me (long lens), along with several XH-A1 cameras.

I've read in many places that the DVX-100B is/was the best SD camcorder made for prosumer use, and I'd like to "play" with it. I'm a hobbist, not a pro, and the output would likely be DVD format.

The main issue is the 4x3 format versus the 16x9 widescreen format. The DVX doesn't shoot in native 16x9 mode, and if I want to intercut both the XH-A1 and DVX footage at some point, I'm concerned that I may not be able to do so easily.

I edit on the newest iMac - Intel i3 chip/4GB memory/256K dedicated video card ingesting through FireWire 800 port, using FCP5 and Studio.

I'm also playing with a Kodak pocket camera - Zi8 - in 720p format - pretty interesting camera for under $200 with video storage card.
 
"Obsolete" is such a buzz word. If it does what you need it to do, and it fits your workflow, it is not obsolete.

Yes, it is SD. No, it does not shoot native 16:9, BUT it does shoot anamorphic 16:9 that looks just dandy.

And if your end-goal is DVD, which is an SD format, you should be just fine.
 
Definitely agree with the above post. The squeeze / anamorphic mode on DVX gives great 16:9, never had problems with it before.

I had my DVX for over 3 years and can honestly say it was the best investment in that price range.

If you ever need HD format you can always uprez the DVX footage, I know its not true HD but it does look nice. I just got a HPX170 but now finding myself looking for P2 cards, a cheap laptop that has the slot for P2 cards and bunch of hard drives to always have backup of my footage... The extra expenses really add up if you go HD :-\
Would have continued shooting with the DVX but need the ability to shoot in variable frame rates so hence the upgrade, otherwise would have stuck with the DVX
 
For just a little bit more money than a used DVX100B, you could probably get a Canon T2i and a Zoom H4N.

If you're dead set on getting an NTSC DV camera though, the DVX100B is probably about as good as it gets for the money.
 
robotsound said:
For just a little bit more money than a used DVX100B, you could probably get a Canon T2i and a Zoom H4N.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Id probably stay away from that one if I were the OP.

Im with C2V, if it does what you want then its not obsolete. The squeeze mode (which when edited in a 16:9 anamorphic timeline), looks like SD 16:9 and just fine. DVX was a fun piece of gear.

Where Id say the DVX is becoming rather dated is in the tape based workflow. I mean on your imac wouldnt you prefer to drop a card in and copy the files rather than play the tape through the heads connected via FW to ingest? But even if you say yes to that - does it matter much?

Have you thought about the HMC40? HD with some good features at a pretty low entry price recording to cheap SD cards.
 
Noel - I did consider the HMC40, but the 1/4 inch sensors concerned me. I shoot documentary footage often, run and gun, solo operator. I don't usually use lots of lighting - it changes the feel of a documentary. Low light capture is very important for me.

I also don't get a second chance to refilm, so audio is just as important. I know you can get an XLR add on for the 40, but from the reviews I've read the audio portion of the camera may be a bit weak - not easy to access the controls, menu driven.

I'm also not sure how to handle the work flow. With the DVX I can store my actual tapes. At some point in the future I can figure out how to store them permanently, but for now they'll be OK for several years. With flash media storage is not as clear. I can use a HDD, but they are prone to failure, and keeping the original on flash media isn't a very secure long term solution.

Finally, the HMC40 codec is a bit of a pain in Final Cut. Transcoding to ProRes seems to be the preferred method of editing, but that negates a lot of the benefit of having the video on flash memory.

All in all, if I were to go to a flash based memory I'd lean toward a Quick Time wrapper, easier to handle in FCP. Seems as if a AJA Ki Mini could be a solution, but that requires either a SDI or HDMI out soultion. The HDMI option doesn't capture time code, so that leaves me with higher end solutions - maybe a EX1, HPX170/HVX200/a, or the new Panasonic AF100 are possibilities, but the cost is far greater than a $1,000 used DVX100B. The HVX200/a gives me the option of using tape, but again the cost is significantly higher and P2 cards for my needs - documentary - require 64GB size to ensure I don't run out of "tape" during a shoot. Nothing worse than stopping someone in mid sentence to change the P2 card.

Finally, so far I've only produced SD DVD output - no HD. Given the lack of integration of BluRay burners for Apple products, I'm not sure how quickly I have to move on a HD format camcorder. My biggest issue is the 16x9 versus 4x3 format. And that's why I've leaned toward the XL2 - not as clean as the DVX, but better in 16x9 mode - at least from the footage I've shot in tests.

Thanks to all for the replies - any additional information or commentary is greatfully appreciated.
 
I always thought the squeeze footage on my DVX looked better than the 4x3 myself.

The T2i with an external recorder... ehh. (And the T2i is my primary camera these days). The only reason I still have my DVX is if I ever need to shoot something "interview" ish. I've had to synch audio many times, and it's a pain. Having dual XLRs, phantom power, and choice between built-in mic, external, etc - on BOTH channels - awesome. If someone can't get good audio with the DVX, give up!

And man, the pres and converters in the DVX are really nice sounding; much of the guitar - and all of the guitar solos - on the video below were recorded straight into the DVX and synched up in ProTools. Sounds sweet & punchy, and it responded to reverb and compression as well as my $1000+ studio preamps, with plenty of detail and character.

Seriously, I almost grabbed my DVX just to use as a field audio recorder once. Still can't bring myself to sell the dang thing.

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I AGREE
 
I only use squeeze and since most bands and people wanted web ads, the SD DVX works just fine. Like Noel said probably the biggest problems is using tape but I've been making a documentary and it is going to take sometime to do, so having it on tape is kind of nice and cheap.
 
I have been shooting my documentary on my DVX, and it looks fantastic! I haven't had to deal with low light situations, but the footage has been clean like always and looks amazing.
 
letterbox

letterbox

What about filming 16X9 using letterbox? Would letterbox be better than squeeze mode? I know that you lose some space, but at least it would not be distorted.
Thanks.
 
John1919 said:
What about filming 16X9 using letterbox? Would letterbox be better than squeeze mode? I know that you lose some space, but at least it would not be distorted.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

?

You don't shoot squeeze if you intend to work in 4:3. Squeeze mode creates an anamorphic image, which is stretched out to a 16:9 frame in post.
 
qap15 said:
The second video looked ok for me, what were the settings, and which light did you use?
Click to expand...

The "Pub Crawl" video:

24P
Detail = -3
Coring = +3
Chroma Level = -3
Master Ped = -8
A.Iris Level = -2
CINELIKE V
Matrix = CINELIKE
Skin Tone = OFF
V Detail = THIN

One on-camera light only:
TorchLED TL-50

Almost no color correction was done to this piece and I was once again surprised at how rich and varied the DVX colors can be.

Is this the piece you meant?

~DPS
 
Letterbox is a 4:3 image with the bars on the top and bottom. Squeeze is essentially a true 16:9 image once it is stretched out in your NLE.
 
squeeze vs letterbox

squeeze vs letterbox

(I'm fairly new to this.) I am filming a short project in a couple of weeks with a DVX100. When I used the camera before, I shot in 4:3, but since almost everything is going 16:9, I thought that I should shoot in a way that will make things easier for screening later down the road. I do not have an anamorphic lens. I need to decide if I should shoot in squeeze mode or letterbox. If squeeze distorts the image somewhat, I guess that I don't want to do that. Letterbox might cut off some of the picture, but at least I get a true image. Does this make sense? Any recommendation as to what to use? Thanks!
 
John1919 said:
...If squeeze distorts the image somewhat, I guess that I don't want to do that. Letterbox might cut off some of the picture, but at least I get a true image. Does this make sense? Any recommendation as to what to use? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're misunderstanding what squeeze does. The "distortion" you mentioned is visible in the DVX's 4:3 display, but when you capture to your NLE it's stretched back out to cancel the "distortion." So, to use your terms, you end up with a "true image."
 
It records a vertically stretched image. You can view it on your EVF of LCD as a 4:3 image, or a 16:9 image. I prefer viewing it in 4:3 (you see it distorted), but the upside of that is that it doesn't overscan the image. If you view it in 16:9, it won't be distorted on the camera, but it will slightly overscan, cutting off all sides very slightly... Regardless of your viewing mode, it will record the same image and you can simply import the footage and bring it into a timeline and select the "Anamorphic 16:9" option.

I just finished a doc last night that I shot on my DVX in squeeze. It will be posted up later today, so when you see it, you will understand.
 
andythefilmer said:
You can view it on your EVF of LCD as a 4:3 image, or a 16:9 image.
Click to expand...

Please note that this is a feature ONLY available in the DVX100B. The DVX100A does not have the option to view Squeeze footage in 16:9. The original DVX100 does not even offer Squeeze mode.

Check HERE for a great example of what DVX squeeze footage can look like when all is said and done.
 
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