Is the CION ever going to ship?

I dropped a Fast Color Corrector on the clip and lifted the blacks and mids slightly so now you can see more detail in that black top she's wearing. I'd probably land in the middle and not push it this much but for demonstration..

The ProRes is really rich down in there. It's got a lot of room to move it around.
ScreenShotLift.jpg
 
Last edited:
morgan_moore said:
Im sure you are technically right as jpgs are 8bit but burning a look on a vid cam with any colour depth will clip
Click to expand...

Well, this could go on all day. But I wasn't being pedantic. First, I believe the Cion has a log setting. Second, even if you use one of the other presets that are less loggy, you are recording to 10-bit 4:2:2, and you would still be able to push and pull quite a bit. I don't think you can even call it "burning" the look. Maybe you wouldn't be able to do some of the recovery I've seen of log or raw footage horribly exposed, but that's the whole point. The Cion seems to give presets that are just how I'd want them, what I would have had to wring out of log footage in the editing room with much toil. I used to think that was the ideal: shoot in log, perfect in post. This was because the presets of all the other cameras were never quite it for me. To say that the Cion's footage is ready for publication and I would be content with it, after a cuts-only edit, is someting I've never said about any other camera, for 25 years. The point is, if I was shooting with log, I would just be checking the monitor to see that the highs and lows are caught, that I'm getting what ye olde photographers called a "dense negative," that would give me a lot of freedom to push and pull in post. But with the Cion, I would be looking in the monitor and asking, "Is this what I want it finally to look like?" If not, I would adjust the f-stop or the lighting right then. Because it doesn't look like I would be able to pull much more latitude out of the sensor, while maintaining good contrast, than Jon Thorn's carefully concocted recipes already are doing.
 
Last edited:
L1N3ARX said:
I'm surprised not even some random test footage has been uploaded yet; little strange. Doesn't have to be production quality, just anything at all really from those that have one. Or maybe no one has it yet?
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty obvious the Cion is not taking the industry by storm. At this point there should be footage out. I wonder if they have sold even a single camera. No, really.
 
They should have given a few cameras on loan to a few shooters to try and see if this camera works for them. That would have made it easier for people to believe after watching footage shot by real shooters.

I have a hunch that the CION would be a good camera. It may simply fall off the radar, as it increasingly appears, due to bad marketing.
 
More footage will come out, just a few weeks after, rather than a few weeks before, the camera has come out. They have a nice clean website and a few nice videos. I, for one, welcome AJA's non-media-blitz marketing.
 
combatentropy said:
More footage will come out, just a few weeks after, rather than a few weeks before, the camera has come out. They have a nice clean website and a few nice videos. I, for one, welcome AJA's non-media-blitz marketing.
Click to expand...
I do too, but sadly, if it doesn't sell well, there will be no impetus to continue development.
 
BrianMurphy said:
I agree with the "No ND" being a prblem. But the shoulder pad? Have you shot with it?
Click to expand...

I've not shot with it, but I must say the shoulder pad does look ok to me - it has to be remembered that there will likely be a hefty battery quite far back meaning that even a reasonably beefy lens will probably balance nicely.

Steve
 
morgan_moore said:
Having shot bmc4k - id say nd is not the issue with a 320 camera as it is with 2000 camera.
Click to expand...

Really limits your choice of aperture though. Even at 320 iso you'll be at f16 or so on a sunny day. No problem for crewed drama type stuff as you'll be either lighting or have matte box for NDs, but for field or run and gun it's quite a biggie I reckon.

Steve
 
Well we shot mainly 2stop or occasionally 4 stop solids on my EXts - and not many changes.

The real problem is with 2000ISO base you are on 6-8 stop a lot where colour shifts start coming in to play and there is so much spare light knocking about inside a matte box or whatever - flare IR pollution etc

To me the 2000ISO camera must have proper manufac tuned ND/IR or they just dont work outdoors - not so with 200-320 base cam

This is not an RnG cam IMO - its for controlled work - be that an ad, pop vid or full feature - but maybe that market is dead because I guess most of us do a controlled job on Monday and some RNG mayhem on tuesday.

S
 
The Cion seems like a nice camera, based on every single one who used it opinion. Usually people who try new cameras point out many flaws, but not here. It's also a pretty great design as a body. And footage I've seen looks great, it has a unique look, and poppy colours, way different from the BM that uses the same sensor so it shows how much processing contributes to the feel of the final image.

On NDs, I wish the Cion had such a basic feature because otherwise it's pretty full-featured. I am sure lots of sports/news/wedding shooter who find it an essential feature, but for me as a regular film/music/set shooter I have no problem with it, and I think Aja had that segment in mind not the run&gun doc/news one, based on the lack of NDs, battery system, recording format, lens mount etc. I would much rather shoot a doc/news/wedding on a C300 or an FS7.

But it can be very usable too if you get the EF mount, shoot at ProRes small 4:2:2, and it would very doc friendly if the ef mount makers could implement an internal ND wheel.

About Log, the Cion as far as I know does have a gamma setting with very low contrast that looks flat and gradeable, it's not limited to rec.709, and the image as users said can be heavily adjusted in post, especially lifting the shadows. So I don't think a baked-in look is something to be affraid of about the cion, it can be whatever you want it to be, in-camera and in post.

The Cion as far as I know has a 12bit sensor, and records to a 12/10bit ProRes codec, so the container is wide enough to carry the 12bit 12stops of DR without being ridiculously flat. Log was made to fit 12 stops into an 8bit container, which makes the image very very flat.

On their website, there's a video that shows all the different gamma settings you can set on the Cion, and a few look very flat and lovely.


It's too early to declare it a market success or a failure, it's their first trial, and compared to other companies histories in making first trials (of now very popular cameras) the Cion is considerablly more solid.

I have hopes for the Cion, both in ergonomics and unique image. Hope to see more. I wish someone would gather all the reviews and first trials because they are very hard to find.
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
About Log, the Cion as far as I know does have a gamma setting with very low contrast that looks flat and gradeable, it's not limited to rec.709, and the image as users said can be heavily adjusted in post, especially lifting the shadows. So I don't think a baked-in look is something to be affraid of about the cion, it can be whatever you want it to be, in-camera and in post.

The Cion as far as I know has a 12bit sensor, and records to a 12/10bit ProRes codec, so the container is wide enough to carry the 12bit 12stops of DR without being ridiculously flat. Log was made to fit 12 stops into an 8bit container, which makes the image very very flat.


It's too early to declare it a market success or a failure, it's their first trial, and compared to other companies histories in making first trials (of now very popular cameras) the Cion is considerablly more solid.
Click to expand...

I agree with you about the gamma settings - after all that's how we've done things for a while now, specifically with cameras like the Varicam, extending the DR by using flat FilLike gamma curves and also adjusting other settings. I don't agree that it's too early to judge the Cion as a market failure though! Hopefully AJA won't give up though and will continue in the camera market having learnt from this experience.

Steve
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top