Oliver Rush
Well-known member
Those were the days.... unfortunately they ended just when I started doing this professionally.
Anyone remember actually making their cuts by hand on a Steenbeck?
Is Canon planning to release a competitor for the AF-100???
- Thread starter FoodDude
- Start date
Those were the days.... unfortunately they ended just when I started doing this professionally.
Anyone remember actually making their cuts by hand on a Steenbeck?
Letzring
Active member
How about an upright moviola?
Rolf Silber
Veteran
Yep. Even - in film academy - on an already then old 35er with hand wheel fine adjustment. Very Terry Giliam'ish looking machine. Rewinding took ages and the monster made sounds like a steel factory. And if you treat it wrong it would "eat" the material. But, hey, it did what it did....
I'll take that bet too.
What odds will you give me for:
- There will be not one, but TWO Canon large-sensor cameras announced Nov 3rd.
- The lower-priced camera will cost slightly more than the AF100 (i.e. $6,000-ish), but with mostly better specs (slightly larger sensor, 10-bit 4:2:2, better codec/higher bitrate) in EF mount.
- The higher-priced camera will be in F3-ish territory, price-wise and feature-wise - and will have even higher specs and additional outputs than its lower-priced sibling, and will have a PL mount.
- You'll be able to walk into a store and buy them both before June 1, 2012
What odds will you give me on all of these things being true?
jdesignhi
Well-known member
It was at about this time last year that I paid full price, up front, for a sight unseen Panasonic AF100...
I've heard this exact same thing!
Bern Caughey
Veteran
I don't know Canon Broadcast's track record, but one thing I admire about the EOS division is when they announce a pro camera the shipping date is not far behind.
In an over abundance of hope I've reserved two of whatever Canon announces on the 3rd, but that doesn't mean I'll be ditching the AF100, rather supplementing it with another tool.
In an over abundance of hope I've reserved two of whatever Canon announces on the 3rd, but that doesn't mean I'll be ditching the AF100, rather supplementing it with another tool.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Okay, so you're in for $20 bucks to Isara if there is no walk-in-and-buy-it camcorder available prior to January 1, 2013.
On ALL of them being true? Well, first question is -- are you basing this on any firsthand knowledge? Have you been part of any beta test program or know someone who has, and therefore you have some reason to believe that these assertions are factual statements rather than wishful thinking? Because if you know something, then it would be grossly unfair of you to take advantage of me that way.
But if you don't have any firsthand knowledge, and you're basing this off rumors, then I'll put up $500 against $500. If you're right and every bit of what you say is true, I'll send $500 to Isara. If you're wrong on any aspect of it, you send $500 to Isara. Deal?
Stephen Mick
Totally Usable
I love this thread. New cameras are going to be announced, AND donations will be made to Isara!
Barry_Green
Moderator
I love how I put that post out there over a year ago, and in the intervening thirteen months Canon hasn't done *anything* like people expected them to. Not only have they NOT introduced an AF100 or FS100 competitor, they haven't even introduced a change to the 5D, and until very recently their top-of-the-line camcorder was a 2006-vintage XLH1 model... yet people seem convinced, utterly convinced, that Canon is now going to somehow come out with an F3 killer. I really don't get it. I mean, I'm willing to be surprised along with everyone else, but -- looking at the last eight years of the company's history, I just don't see any reason to believe these rumors...
But, yes, we'll all find out a few weeks from now. I don't know if they'll introduce the hair dryer or not; I think it would be pretty unusual for a secretive company like them to actually show a working-ish model of a product a year ago, and never develop it further; I can't remember a time in their history when they've done that. Canon never pre-announces anything more than a little before shipping time, they play it very quietly, yet the hair dryer was shown 13 months ago, so thinking that it (or something fundamentally similar to it) would be introduced doesn't seem to be that much of a stretch to me.
But a company whose top of the line product is the XF305, a $7,500 1/3" MPEG-2 camcorder that costs $1,500 more than Sony's competing EX1R and $2,000 more than Panasonic's HPX250 (which is 10-bit AVC, not 8-bit MPEG2)... I mean, why would a company that put out a $9,000 HDV camcorder like the XLH1, be viewed as coming out with an F3 competitor? Especially less than a year after the F3 hit the market? What is the basis for such optimism?
Well, maybe I'll be proven wrong, but so far I've got up to $1,000 to bet on my position (although I think only $60 or so of that original bet has been taken) and another $500 on Steve R's postulation, and I'm thinking that most of, if not all of, that money's pretty safe... :thumbsup:
But, yes, we'll all find out a few weeks from now. I don't know if they'll introduce the hair dryer or not; I think it would be pretty unusual for a secretive company like them to actually show a working-ish model of a product a year ago, and never develop it further; I can't remember a time in their history when they've done that. Canon never pre-announces anything more than a little before shipping time, they play it very quietly, yet the hair dryer was shown 13 months ago, so thinking that it (or something fundamentally similar to it) would be introduced doesn't seem to be that much of a stretch to me.
But a company whose top of the line product is the XF305, a $7,500 1/3" MPEG-2 camcorder that costs $1,500 more than Sony's competing EX1R and $2,000 more than Panasonic's HPX250 (which is 10-bit AVC, not 8-bit MPEG2)... I mean, why would a company that put out a $9,000 HDV camcorder like the XLH1, be viewed as coming out with an F3 competitor? Especially less than a year after the F3 hit the market? What is the basis for such optimism?
Well, maybe I'll be proven wrong, but so far I've got up to $1,000 to bet on my position (although I think only $60 or so of that original bet has been taken) and another $500 on Steve R's postulation, and I'm thinking that most of, if not all of, that money's pretty safe... :thumbsup:
Barry_Green
Moderator
Okay, point of clarification -- when I say "the hair dryer" I don't mean a product that will literally look like what they showed at the Canon show. But a product that does basically what it was offering -- 4K, on a 2/3" chip, at up to 60p -- that's what I would be expecting from them. It may be a different form factor (hopefully!) and it may even offer interchangeable lenses. But at least that's something they showed, that implies that they're working on something... the hair dryer got "singled out" because it's basically the only camcorder they showed at their expo. So how can we single any other camcorder out, when that's all they showed?
For the record, I don't expect any new camcorders to be announced on Nov. 3rd. I expect it'll be a high-end support facility for their Hollywood operations. And I would expect that the actual announcement isn't about products, it's invitations for people to come and tour the place and see it operational. All I was saying is IF there's going to be a new camcorder announced, my crystal ball would put money on it being based on the 4K concept they showed, rather than it being some F3 killer or FS100/AF100 competitor. That's all.
For the record, I don't expect any new camcorders to be announced on Nov. 3rd. I expect it'll be a high-end support facility for their Hollywood operations. And I would expect that the actual announcement isn't about products, it's invitations for people to come and tour the place and see it operational. All I was saying is IF there's going to be a new camcorder announced, my crystal ball would put money on it being based on the 4K concept they showed, rather than it being some F3 killer or FS100/AF100 competitor. That's all.
heavyG
Underwater Giraffe Member
From a friend who knows a guy...
"I'm not sure what they plan to do DSLR-wise. I'm hoping they come out with the 5D Mark III but who knows. But I do know they're going to be releasing a high end video camera that will compete with red, or those PL mount cameras from panasonic and sony. My DP friend was on a shoot where they were using one.
Apparently it's pretty great. But the price point is so ridiculous it doesn't really matter.
Sorry to disappoint."
Take that with a whole shaker of salt!
"I'm not sure what they plan to do DSLR-wise. I'm hoping they come out with the 5D Mark III but who knows. But I do know they're going to be releasing a high end video camera that will compete with red, or those PL mount cameras from panasonic and sony. My DP friend was on a shoot where they were using one.
Apparently it's pretty great. But the price point is so ridiculous it doesn't really matter.
Sorry to disappoint."
Take that with a whole shaker of salt!
Barry_Green
Moderator
Which, if true, would be more in line with the concept of opening a Hollywood service center. Not sure what he means about "those PL mount cameras from Panasonic and Sony"; Panasonic doesn't make any PL-mount cameras, and Sony's direct PL-mount cameras are the F35 and F65; even the F3 isn't a PL-mount, that's an adapter... so it doesn't sound like he exactly knows where it's headed... hmmm... if the "price point is so ridiculous it doesn't really matter", that's also subjective -- is the price point of an F3 so ridiculous? To a DSLR buyer, certainly; to a Red buyer, no... so I wonder if he's implying it's in Epic territory? That would be such a massive new direction for Canon, who have never priced a camera above $8999 before, and even that one, I doubt they sold a thousand over its six-year lifetime... though, if your friend who knows a guy is right, that'd mean my $500 from Steve R is safe... :thumbsup:
heavyG
Underwater Giraffe Member
To clarify… He was referring to the AF100 & F3 when he said 'Those PL mount cameras', since everyone we shoot with uses PL glass and an adapter. As far as his price point comment; this is a guy who used to P.A. then Assistant Produce for me, before deciding to go back to film school. He's swimming in debt so anything over $3k is too expensive.
Why can't it be BOTH? (an F3 competitor AND have 4K capability/upgrade path)
Well, seeing as every Panasonic and Sony ad running in Filmmaker, American Cinematography etc. shows the AF100 and F3 with PL mount lenses (and trumpets that capabiltiy), I don't think it's a stretch that some people might refer to them in this way.
How is that, exactly? It seems he's describing EXACTLY what I described (esp. if you consider the "PL Mount" clarification above).