Is Canon planning to release a competitor for the AF-100???

F

FoodDude

Well-known member
Canon and Panasonic are bigger manufacturers in the video camera/camcorder (Canon & Sony probably second to popularity to Pana, but Canon & Pana re the ones with the big sensors.)

So, will Canon release a camcorder with a large sensor (4/3, apsc crop, full frame) in relatively the same price bracket as the AF100?

That would really be some great competition. The AF100 is the first to implement big DSLR sensor in a video camera, maybe taking over all other 2/3" cameras and making them obsolete. Shouldn't Canon follow in their footsteps and implement bigger sensors in their video cameras as well.

So long to the 2/3" camcorders.
 
If recent history is any judge, then yes, they will. Sometime in 2013 or later. Their answer to the VX1000 took 'em a couple of years, and their answer to the DVX took them over two years, and their answer to the tapeless HVX200 took them five years. So, on average, their answer to the AF100 will likely appear sometime in 2013.

As has often been noted, Canon doesn't ever go first. They like to have everyone else lay their cards out on the table, and then they go last. And, as their recent Canon Global Expo didn't show a hint of anything coming (except an odd hair-dryer-shaped 2/3" camera), there's no reason to expect them to do anything sooner than is typical for them.
 
Canon will 100% guaranteed! In about 3-4 years.

FoodDude said:
So long to the 2/3" camcorders.
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At the present time - the introduction of the AF100 will have little bearing on the 2/3" camera crowd, for the most part its a different set of users.

EDIT: Barry beat me.

EDIT AGAIN: Unless youre talking about 2/3" in say the format of Scarlet - then it might have some impact.
 
Canon has a history of "stalling" and being late to the game. With DSLRs they were "early". I'll bet they'll be late with an AF100 competitor. I'll bet the 5d replacement will be very interesting....but no competition for the AF100. I'll bet they set a new mark for (no pun intended) DSLRs though. Time will tell.
 
Don't forget the Sony VG10. It's another large sensor video camera, shipping about now.

The end of 2/3" cameras? Hardly. They'll be the cameras of choice in the broadcast market for years to come. But once there's a true power zoom lens for the large sensor cameras, then the 2/3" market might start shrinking.
 
Canon? Are you kidding me? Why would they spend money on developing and marketing a new camera when every 5D2 in every shipment in Los Angeles is still being sold out as soon as it hits shelves. It's because we are so eager and hungry to buy their outdated and flawed existing technology - to announce something new would only stall what is already a growth market for them.

It's all about moving units, and they don't want to put a "rookie" into retirement just yet if you know what I mean.
 
HHL said:
Canon has a history of "stalling" and being late to the game. With DSLRs they were "early". .
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Yes, SO early in fact that they forgot a few things for about a year:

1. Manual exposure Control.
2. Frame Rate Controls
3. Audio Controls

When they figured out that they could move a lot more units by just adding/changing some code in firmware they hopped on the bandwagon and decided to stratify the market that they already dominated.

That's why you have:
1. The COMPLETELY crippled T1i
2. The 7D with no manual audio control STILL
3. The 1D4 with No manual audio control still and a way cranked up noise reduction circuit
4. The T2i with Crippled Audio, Crippled ISO adjustments, and a mildly retarded picture profile menu.
5. the 60D with Manual Control of Audio and Exposure, a Flip out LCD, and only One CPU.

If they added manual audio levels to the 7D - who would sell their 7D's secondhand and buy a 60D?

This marketing technique is all about Aspirational thought. I could really be a REAL filmmaker if I only had ___________________ in my camera. Then we're left pining over incrementally enhanced feature sets that are only a few hundred dollars more than what we already have. Ask Tim Smith about it, I'm sure that *EXPLETIVES DELETED* could tell you all about it.
 
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Yes, SO early in fact that they forgot a few things for about a year:

1. Manual exposure Control.
2. Frame Rate Controls
3. Audio Controls

When they figured out that they could move a lot more units by just adding/changing some code in firmware they hopped on the bandwagon and decided to stratify the market that they already dominated.

That's why you have:
1. The COMPLETELY crippled T1i
2. The 7D with no manual audio control STILL
3. The 1D4 with No manual audio control still and a way cranked up noise reduction circuit
4. The T2i with Crippled Audio, Crippled ISO adjustments, and a mildly retarded picture profile menu.
5. the 60D with Manual Control of Audio and Exposure, a Flip out LCD, and only One CPU.
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All of these things are VERY TRUE. :)

The sad thing is: Who did better? Nikon? Pentax? Sony? Olympus? So....relatively speaking....the sorry effort that Canon put forward WAS the best effort of these giants. Panasonic....we'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they did equally as bad/good as Canon. So from that perspective: Canon was early.
 
Nathyn said:
Yep, my DP is all over the 5DMII.

-Nate
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Love it! And I guess the real question is will they have a pure video cam that compares... and I'm not so sure they will. DSLRs get pooed-pooed for their form factor all the time, but honestly I have grown to love it - I literally have my camera (the T2) around my neck all the time. I've gotten some amazing footage that I'd never have gotten w/ a "normal" cam - 'cause it'd still be in a box at home.

The DSLRs are perfect for the neo-French new wave movement that is growing - small, 16mm film quality, film maker friendly - perfect for slice of life type films.

It will def be interesting (although in the end I do think that this camera hurts RED far more then Canon/Nikon/Sony). Can't wait to see footage from the AF100 in any case. It's wonderfully ugly.
 
Canon's place is secure as long as they remain the only manufacturer of reasonably priced Full Frame DSLR's shooting video that can take full advantage of the entire line of full frame lenses out there. On a 5D MKII, a 14mm is actually 14mm, not a 21mm or 28mm. That remains a significant advantage for them.
On the other hand, AF100 owners could have the ultimate cam for sports use.
 
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sewolla said:
a 14mm is actually 14mm
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What I'd like to know, when is a 14mm anything else but a 14mm?

Not trolling you, I shoot 5D from time to time. I could also say a 14mm isnt really a 14mm on a full frame. A 14mm is only really 14mm on a medium format camera. Or how about any other numerous larger formats.

I could say the 5D is also really limted in lens selection, since it cant even mount EF-S lenses. It also has trouble with some PL mount lenses due the mount design.
 
canon and sony already released there pro camcorder and 2/3" line up. so their intentions are clear as of now.(the canon pro camcorder line up looks like a pro camcorder line, and the sony 2/3" is ccd)

other than the sony vg10

any dslr like features will be from dslrs, at least for the time being.
 
While I am a big fan of past behavior being the biggest predictor of future actions, I would not count Canon out of the game just yet. Now, I would not hold my breath waiting for a Canon miracle cam either. They have, in the past, played a follow the leader role in the established video camera game, they also have the distinction of actually creating a whole new game, with their HD-DSLRs. I just have to believe that the popularity, and impact, of the Canon HD-DSLRs, to a whole new market, has to be the large multi-national corporation equivalent to blood in the water to sharks. I would be willing to bet that the people who are responsible for the bringing us the Canon HD-DSLRs are corporate rock stars, and not the type of folks that rest on their laurels. I also have to bet that there are like minded folks in the broadcast division and even in the consumer video division that want to be rock stars also and maybe, just maybe, they are working together to blow our socks off.

One thing we know for sure is that Canon is doing some very significant development in digital imaging technology. They have recently introduced a 120 megapixel chip and showed a 4k resolution, working concept camera, that shoots 4k images at 60fps off of a 2/3" chip. While the uses of these products is not low budget filmmaking, you just have to wonder what else they are up to. While I am not going to hold my breath, I am still expecting great things from Canon in a very little while.
 
sewolla said:
Canon's place is secure as long as they remain the only manufacturer of reasonably priced Full Frame DSLR's shooting video that can take full advantage of the entire line of full frame lenses out there. On a 5D MKII, a 14mm is actually 14mm, not a 21mm or 28mm. That remains a significant advantage for them.
On the other hand, AF100 owners could have the ultimate cam for sports use.
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I'm gonna troll you since I'm just in the mood to.

14mm is 14mm is 14mm. Even if you're a "Stills Shooter" you still don't get "THE REAL 14MM FULL FRAME OMFG" because it's a 16:9 extraction from the "FULL FRAME" I'm sorry, but to my eye 35mm full frame of image line skipped down to 1920x1080 looks just as bad, if not MUCH WORSE than APS-C line skipped down to 1920x1080. It's my belief that anything else regarding this is just fiction, and obsession over some unattainable unicorn vision.

Vistavision motion format is Effing Bull Crap. All the crap 5D videos on youtube will tell you that. People think that having half of someone's eyeball in focus is artsy. It gets so old, and so damn boring that I'm just completely bored to tears of it. These cameras can't reproduce color worth half a ****, and with more than half the shots out of focus I literally lose interest 3 seconds in. It's so weird, but I actually find myself missing when online interviews and other showfloor footage like at IBC was shot on a DVX100 or HVX200 - at least those had some colorspace by comparison. If you can show me a video that was done on 5D that couldn't be done on a GH-1 or on a 7D I will literally buy you a case of beer.

Once you understand these two principles, you'll probably have better luck.

1. If you need a wider field of view then what your lens allows, then you need to back up.
2. If you really need the OMFG WIDE shot, then try a tokina 11-16 or a Peleng fisheye

If you need wider than that, then I don't know what to tell you. Wider field of view doesn't make you a better cameraman.
 
David G. Smith said:
One thing we know for sure is that Canon is doing some very significant development in digital imaging technology. They have recently introduced a 120 megapixel chip and showed a 4k resolution, working concept camera, that shoots 4k images at 60fps off of a 2/3" chip. /QUOTE]

You do realize that many commonly available Machine Vision systems feature just such an imaging chip, doing just such imaging?

You also realize that the "Camera" canon had on display was merely a prop? By that, I mean it was a plastic concept model, housing a 2/3" 4K machine vision sensor feeding a signal down into a magic wizard of Oz box below the display that was actually doing all the image processing?

A High Resolution (4k+) sensor is nothing new.
The ability to record 4k of image data is nothing new.
The ability to process and store (Raw, or otherwise compressed) 4k of image data in a palmcorder sized device has not been achieved here, and is really the missing link in a 4K handycam concept - this is the hard part, and no amount of smoke and mirrors from canon can Hide that it's not an easy task to pull off.
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vanvideo said:
Don't forget the Sony VG10. It's another large sensor video camera, shipping about now.

The end of 2/3" cameras? Hardly. They'll be the cameras of choice in the broadcast market for years to come. But once there's a true power zoom lens for the large sensor cameras, then the 2/3" market might start shrinking.
Click to expand...

The problem with large sensor optics is that a zoom that is fast, constant speed, and has more than 3 to 1 zoom range will be very large and heavy. Physically there is no way around this.
For me 2/3"/16mm sized sensor and the fast compact optics that are possible with it are the sweet spot. 4/3 shouldn't be too bad for decent compact zooms, but APSC/S35/ff35, forget it.
 
Dan_Kanes said:
I'm gonna troll you since I'm just in the mood to.

14mm is 14mm is 14mm. Even if you're a "Stills Shooter" you still don't get "THE REAL 14MM FULL FRAME OMFG" because it's a 16:9 extraction from the "FULL FRAME" I'm sorry, but to my eye 35mm full frame of image line skipped down to 1920x1080 looks just as bad, if not MUCH WORSE than APS-C line skipped down to 1920x1080. It's my belief that anything else regarding this is just fiction, and obsession over some unattainable unicorn vision.

Vistavision motion format is Effing Bull Crap. All the crap 5D videos on youtube will tell you that. People think that having half of someone's eyeball in focus is artsy. It gets so old, and so damn boring that I'm just completely bored to tears of it. These cameras can't reproduce color worth half a shi*, and with more than half the shots out of focus I literally lose interest 3 seconds in. It's so weird, but I actually find myself missing when online interviews and other showfloor footage like at IBC was shot on a DVX100 or HVX200 - at least those had some colorspace by comparison. If you can show me a video that was done on 5D that couldn't be done on a GH-1 or on a 7D I will literally buy you a case of beer.

Once you understand these two principles, you'll probably have better luck.

1. If you need a wider field of view then what your lens allows, then you need to back up.
2. If you really need the OMFG WIDE shot, then try a tokina 11-16 or a Peleng fisheye

If you need wider than that, then I don't know what to tell you. Wider field of view doesn't make you a better cameraman.
Click to expand...



I don't yet have a horse in this race, but am looking at the AF100 and Canons very closely now.
None of this changes my point that Canon's place will be secure in the market as long as they offer a "Full Frame" camera like the 5D MKII at that price point. Doesn't matter a wit if you personally don't like the footage it produces, plenty of others do. My goal is not to argue its technical merits, just to say that obviously the "full frame advantage" is important to a lot of buyers out there. And that in my researching the cameras, I do not see that market going away anytime soon.
And while I would obviously agree that having a wider field of view does not make you a better cameraman, having more creative options does not hurt either.
 
Director/Producer Monte Hellman, icon of independent american cinema, has realized his last film "Road to nowhere" (awarded this year at Venice Film Festival with a major prize) enterely with 5ds. His comment about the camera: amazing.
 
I think the 7D is a great still camera but totally lacking in video. It needs tons of software upgrades to even be considered my A camera. It is great for scout videos though.
 
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