Is 24p judder really this bad??

A PC solution is straight forward with avisynth or vdub, but I think he captured it incorrectly, because vdub shouldn't be spitting up that error

As suggested earlier, I would try re-capturing with WinDV first, then I can provide more detailed instructions

It looks like he blend deinterlaced it (that's why ~every 3rd frame is "ghosted"), and changed the fps to 25 by decimating frames (or maybe youtube did it). A straight IVTC should return 23.976 (24000/1001 exactly), and a straight deinterlace would return 29.97 (30000/1001 exactly) with every 5th frame "ghosted" if you used blend deinterlacing

If your camera has a 24pA mode (2:3:3:2) , this is supported natively by Premiere and it will work properly without these extra steps

If you shot 24p standard (24p in 60i - or 2:3 cadence) , then you need these extra steps
 
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PDR said:
A PC solution is straight forward with avisynth or vdub, but I think he captured it incorrectly, because vdub shouldn't be spitting up that error

As suggested earlier, I would try re-capturing with WinDV first, then I can provide more detailed instructions

It looks like he blend deinterlaced it (that's why ~every 3rd frame is "ghosted"), and changed the fps to 25 by decimating frames (or maybe youtube did it). A straight IVTC should return 23.976 (24000/1001 exactly), and a straight deinterlace would return 29.97 (30000/1001 exactly) with every 5th frame "ghosted" if you used blend deinterlacing

If your camera has a 24pA mode (2:3:3:2) , this is supported natively by Premiere and it will work properly without these extra steps

If you shot 24p standard (24p in 60i - or 2:3 cadence) , then you need these extra steps
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The real problem is I can't recapture again as I don't have the original tapes. The raw footage is duplicated frames, not interlaced. Is there nothing I can do with that? Oh my, I'm sooo confused!
 
King Rudi said:
The real problem is I can't recapture again as I don't have the original tapes. The raw footage is duplicated frames, not interlaced. Is there nothing I can do with that? Oh my, I'm sooo confused!
Click to expand...


That's too bad :(

Raw DV-AVI is always recorded in fields , so you don't have "raw footage" if you don't have intact fields. It must have been processed somewhere along the line if you have duplicated frames, or the software you are using to determine this isn't working properly (or you haven't set it up properly)

You're might be screwed, but if you upload a sample of your "raw footage" to a free hosting site (e.g. mediafire.com) , I can look at it and see if you can salvage anything
 
PDR said:
That's too bad :(

Raw DV-AVI is always recorded in fields , so you don't have "raw footage" if you don't have intact fields. It must have been processed somewhere along the line if you have duplicated frames, or the software you are using to determine this isn't working properly (or you haven't set it up properly)

You're might be screwed, but if you upload a sample of your "raw footage" to a free hosting site (e.g. mediafire.com) , I can look at it and see if you can salvage anything
Click to expand...

That would be great, but how do I upload a sample? because if I use premiere to cut a section, it's gonna save it in weird formats again. How would I get it to save exactly how it is "raw"?
 
Normally you would use "direct stream copy" mode for video in vdub, but you can't open it up in vdub ? Do all the files behave like that or only a few ?

Another alternative is avidemux , using "copy mode". If you can open it up successfully in avidemux, I can give you more detailed instructions
http://avidemux.razorbyte.com.au/

Or do you have a "short" clip ? preferrably a horizontal panning shot, similar to the one in your youtube example ; or are they all large AVI files ?
 
You are an absolute Lifesaver!!!!!!!!!! I downloaded Avidmux, saved the clip, then exported to VirtualDub, applied IVTC (reduce frames) and Deinterlace, and voila, no more duplicates, ghosting or interlacing!! WOOHOOOOOOO!!!!:D :D :D Here is what it looks like now: http://www.mediafire.com/?p62a3313el9x39q Still some judder, but I suppose that is just because I need to learn how to pan and such when shooting 24p. Nowhere near as bad as it was! Thank you SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much!!!!! :D
 
I downloaded Avidmux, saved the clip, then exported to VirtualDub, applied IVTC (reduce frames) and Deinterlace,
Click to expand...

You would normally deinterlace OR IVTC, NOT both.

If the "original" was truly 3:2 or 2:3 telecine, then IVTC alone should give you perfect 24p . Adding a deinterlacing filter on top of that will just degrade quality, reduce detail & blur it a bit

Also be careful what formats you use exporting in/out , you maybe incurring generation losses if you don't use uncompressed or lossless compression

Also, avidemux has IVTC filters , so it might not be necessary to use mulitple programs. I believe it's called "decomb telecide" in avidemux - you may have to play with the settings to get it perfect (for example DV-AVI is always BFF , bottom field first)

EDIT: yep, that .mpg clip you uploaded looks like "normal" 24p native now - no decimated frames, no blended frames
 
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I tried that "decomb telecide" filter, but the end product is just a whole bunch of vertical black lines down the footage, you can't see anything. Why would that happen?
 
King Rudi said:
I tried that "decomb telecide" filter, but the end product is just a whole bunch of vertical black lines down the footage, you can't see anything. Why would that happen?
Click to expand...

Not sure, i've never used it :) or maybe you used the wrong settings

I actually use avisynth for these type things, it gives you more control and options. It's a bit difficult to learn at first, though


Anyways, whatever filters you used in vdub worked in that sample you uploaded (at least cadence wise), but I suspect you could do away with the deinterlace (and keep IVTC only) , but I don't know for sure because I haven't seen the "original" footage

There were other issues, like letterboxing (maybe from your resize method?) , noise , and I suspect you used yadif deinterlacer (there were some artifacts in the background)
 
Ah, If I use BFF with the IVTC in VirtualDub, then I don't need to use deinterlace:) Awesome, thank you sooooooooooooo much guys for all the help, So stoked that it's FINALLY working:) You guys rock!! :D
 
That motion looks pretty normal to me. The pan is simply too fast. Maybe try cutting it out, or adding a B-roll shot over the top of it.
 
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