C100: Iphone 5S will shoots 120fps@720, but my $6000 "Cinema" camera does not....

Fluoro said:
What a contradictory sentence. If the C100 was 9k I would understand your sentiments but it's really only a little bit more expensive than the FS100. When you simply consider the NDs and better dynamic range the price difference is worth every cent.
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no contradiction - I bought the fs100 on its launch date - a year before the c100 - today I would choose the c100 over the fs100 Nd and the like are more important than 50p to me.

today I'm in market for a more expensive cam c300 or f5 - the f5 is looking to be a far better bet..
 
Maybe we need to go back to $20,000+ 2/3" 3 chip shoulder cameras to really appreciate what we have at our disposal now....
 
LOL. I put that video on it's highest res of 720p and had to keep checking though out the video that it wasn't stuck on 360p. I think I counted 7 stops DR, not sure with all the flare plugins over the footage.

"A bunch of C100 owners didn't get the job". Neither did any epic, F55, F5, F700, F100, C300, BMC, 5d, t2i owners as well.

I will say this. Relish the days some of you have left having a good day rate in this industry. There is the fact that lots of people will enter this field and undercut you and I for what we spent years perfecting and refining due to devices like 120fps cell cameras. When I started my studio using 8x10 and 4x5 view cameras you really had means of being above the hobby competition. You had to be artistic and technical to make it in any photographic business. Knowing film alone was an art. Today that separation is less and less while casual hobbyist can and do enter the field everyday and think that $500 a day is big money while they use cameras bought at Costco.

I embrace digital acquisition, but it has also killed many photographic industries. Just the other day I had to call up a company that had one of my images used in a magazine ad that I never even heard of. I asked them how they acquired the image and they said they got it from the company that hired me for a different use. The company that hired me uses me exclusively and I gross at least $70,000/ year from them. So I had to let it go. I'd rather keep the client than fight a reuse image. The point is that digital files are just that easy for people to share. Where as with film everybody had to lease the film from me and return it when they were done with the separations. I while back I started to try and watermark my digital images so clients had to contact me for usage. I tested it out on some smaller clients and they did in fact move on to another photographer that obviously did not follow this practice. Today, there are many photographers that will undercut and give it away for free just to get the job. It's quite the shame.

Just a couple months ago I was contacted to do a promotional video. I wrote up the estimate and delivered to them. A week later I contacted them to check on the status of the job. THey had gone with "another video guy". I said to myself, "you win some you lose some". Two weeks after that I see facebook posts of the client on set with "the other video guy". He had what looked like Canon t2i's on a stills photo tripod from Best Buy and a couple on camera mics going for a single sitter interview. I recently saw the video and it was garbage. Then a week or two ago I saw the client at a function and I asked about that job and she said it "came down to costs". Her client went with the undercut. While my contact knew it could have looked better using me, she said that the her client was very happy with the product. Best Buy tripods!

So hang in there guys. There are people with Iphones and Best Buy tripods that are in direct competition with you too. My suggestion is better learn how to work with cell phone cinema and better rethink your day rates. There are plenty of 18 and 19 year olds out there to fill your shoes....
 
Dusty,
That's the point I've been trying to make here. In a roundabout way ;)
You've seen it for years in music, where music studios have a harder and harder time getting jobs/decent pay because people can make great sounding demos in their living room.
For still pictures it's maybe even worse, so many people buy a DSLR and think they're a photographer. And it would be naive to think it won't happen (or is already happening) to video as well.

The problem is that eventually the cheap technology will be "good enough" for the majority, just like your clients that went with the Best Buy tripod guy.
 
dmitrizigany said:
Dusty,
That's the point I've been trying to make here. In a roundabout way ;)
You've seen it for years in music, where music studios have a harder and harder time getting jobs/decent pay because people can make great sounding demos in their living room.
For still pictures it's maybe even worse, so many people buy a DSLR and think they're a photographer. And it would be naive to think it won't happen (or is already happening) to video as well.

The problem is that eventually the cheap technology will be "good enough" for the majority, just like your clients that went with the Best Buy tripod guy.
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Well I also have stories of "buy cheap, buy twice" as well. I can't count the times some Best Buy tripod shooter won a bid and ruined the shoot to where the client then calls me in to do the job proper. It does go both ways too. I do miss the days of film sometimes.
 
I don't get the obsession with HFR, story telling makes the difference. Will the iPhone also give amazing low light performance, gorgeous skin tones & DOF that corporates will drool over? I have filmed a job on the iPhone 4S as a creative outlet & it really sucks. Had a FS700 on set yesterday for some slow motion shots, it's fun but I still prefer my C100 image. The buffering @ 240FPS on the FS700 is a bit problematic when filming on a schedule, I'd love to see a 240FPS solution from Canon in the future. I think we get obsessed with our gear, codec specifications & what nots when the only thing that really matters is telling a good story in a creative way. The Canon XA20 has 50P, WiFi & face tracking auto focus with some crazy image stabilisers, pisses me off, I also want WiFi! but the image sucks & I'm not going to get the jobs I get filming with it.

dustylense said:
Then a week or two ago I saw the client at a function and I asked about that job and she said it "came down to costs". Her client went with the undercut. While my contact knew it could have looked better using me, she said that the her client was very happy with the product. Best Buy tripods!
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If I could play devil's advocate for a second I'd say that it's not entirely about the quote you gave but more about understanding the needs of the client, they needed a shitty video & you wanted to give them something else so you where at a disadvantage from the start. They where never a potential client to begin with, clients that want quality will pay for it as long as you're the recommend guy.
 
Not really Nicholas. This is an Ad agency that I work with all the time. The under cutter came in a few hundred bucks than me. It was for a large master plan new community in CA. My client at the Ad agency told me that her client made the wrong choice as not only was the work poor but the turnaround getting the work was very very late on the Best Buy guy. See, if you stoop down to that under cut level, you will never get a estimate signed again at your level or comfort zone. Because if you do undercut yourself, you're shooting yourself in the foot for the future with that client and possibly more clients if word gets out you did such job at such price.

But in the end the builder was happy I guess. So I know NOT to bid on that account. Sometimes it's just not worth it. But more and more these wet behind the ear rookies are coming into fields just ruining industries. They will undercut and deliver garbage not knowing that they will never make a decent day rate. I'm glad I'm nearing a point where I could retire. Then I can just shoot for myself again.
 
Dusty these kinds of posts and all your talk about how much you make are getting kind of old. We all started somewhere. I owned an ad agency and tech company for 9 years before selling out to piss all my money away chasing the dream of being an actor, writer and filmmaker. When I started the agency, we UNDERCUT a lot of other agencies. We were the rookies you refer to and started with a handful of staff from our homes, then a tiny office, and while we might have made some mistakes and did some work that was considered inferior to our competitors at the beginning, we quickly improved. We also made a name for ourselves and started raising our prices, and picking and choosing our clients. By the time I sold the client list and some of my intellectual property, we were billing at some of the highest rates in our market and turning down two clients for every one we picked up.

No offense but...

That is the way business works for most of us: Start small and make a name for yourself, and then grow. In the same theme as your posts regarding c100 criticism (If you don't like it, don't buy it) maybe if you don't like BUSINESS, you should get out of it, and retire like you said. Cutting down the young people trying to make their mark, just like you did, is pretty arrogant and mean spirited IMO. I'm sure there are plenty of people who will be happy to take over what you leave behind, especially in this economy.
 
Sheldon Charron said:
Dusty these kinds of posts and all your talk about how much you make are getting kind of old. We all started somewhere. I owned an ad agency and tech company for 9 years before selling out to piss all my money away chasing the dream of being an actor, writer and filmmaker. When I started the agency, we UNDERCUT a lot of other agencies. We were the rookies you refer to and started with a handful of staff from our homes, then a tiny office, and while we might have made some mistakes and did some work that was considered inferior to our competitors at the beginning, we quickly improved. We also made a name for ourselves and started raising our prices, and picking and choosing our clients. By the time I sold the client list and some of my intellectual property, we were billing at some of the highest rates in our market and turning down two clients for every one we picked up.

No offense but...

That is the way business works for most of us: Start small and make a name for yourself, and then grow. In the same theme as your posts regarding c100 criticism (If you don't like it, don't buy it) maybe if you don't like BUSINESS, you should get out of it, and retire like you said. Cutting down the young people trying to make their mark, just like you did, is pretty arrogant and mean spirited IMO. I'm sure there are plenty of people who will be happy to take over what you leave behind, especially in this economy.
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+1, Open mind is a must unless you are another steve jobs

Dont know why Dusty gets so pissed off by my post.
 
dustylense said:
Let me ask you first. Have you ever shot with and produced anything with either the Canon C300 or C100? If not, then you really don't understand why the owners of the C100 aren't really worried about what the FS700 has or how many FPS a cell phone has.

When you finish a project with a C100 and look back at how the camera works in your hands and the image it produces, one then fully understands why the camera is just what it says and does. It delivers. And for $5500 it's packed with everything you need to shoot just about anything in any type of light. And when people first drop the 60i into their 24p or 30p timeline to get slow motion they say to themselves, "Hey, that looks really good". The idea of the camera was the leap from HDslr shooting into a proper video camera with a high degree of image. I would say that Canon knocked it out of the park in the execution of the camera.

If you want more, then spend more money on the camera that you think you want. I've worked with the FS100. THe FS100/700 are fine cameras, but the ergonomics are just ridiculous. I've owned the BMC. Great camera but I can deal with the moire. I've owned the AF100. Great camera that is packed with features for the price. The C100 gave me balance between all the above mentioned cameras. It really is a joy to work with. It becomes and extension to your thoughts and creativity when using it. The camera almost is invisible when shooting with it. All the buttons are so well laid out that it's really hard to make mistakes. Then there is the image. It just looks great and has lots of flexibility to set up the camera on how you want it to look. Out of the box, it's maybe the best camera I've ever shot with (including stills cameras).

Brainwashed by Canon. No. But when you own $20,000 worth of their lenses, you kinda stay with Canon. I have for 20 years. I'm a camera fan. I just happen to have a great ecosystem in Canon between stills and video. If you really feel that Canon sticks it to you with releasing cameras with less than you want, there are plenty of cameras out there to choose from. But I will tell you this. Each and every one of them as something that another camera has. And if the C100 were such a bad deal, why are they flying off the shelves?
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dude Ive had C100 since this Jan I do not need you to repeat the good part of it, If I dont know about These then Ive already sold it.

and yeah I am a Canon guy same as you ,I own all Canon L primes from 14mm all the way to 135mm, and I have to stick with Canon same as you.

So I think I get your point, you are saying the product Canon is making is perfect, no shortcomings whatsoever.

this is insane ! we are complaining just because we want Canon to hear it so C100 MK II should be the thing we were looking for ! If we dont do it then this is a ONE WAY COMMUNICATION.

Think about 5D mark 1, 2, and 3. lots people complain mark 1 is a dust vaccum, so they fixed it in mk2. everyone say mk 2 video function and focus function is s*%t, so they fixed it in mark iii

now I say C100 slomotion is s*%t, AVCHD is s*%t, its almost 2014 are we supposed to force ourselves to live with 1080 I ? come on !

am I jumping to Sony because of these? of course not. so Am I supposed to shut up then? Of course not ! we stand and shout just because we are Canon Loyal customer (I dont want to be, but my investment is forcing me to be, and the market leaves me at no choice, Canon is of course dominating the market, just like apple)


C100 is s*%t, but FS 700 is even s*%tty - er ! But its just my paint brush, I still love it and live with it. Its a complicated feeling I know you know what I mean.


My job and My budget locks me at the range of C100. As I said, the market leaves me at no choice. I do not want 4k , I dont need 12 bit image, I dont need RAW, I hate 3D, I dont even need 240 fps. and I hate green screen and VFX. I love 24p and flares, light stripes, and those organic images. Thats my Obsession to cinematography. But I do need a 120 fps slo motion function to put food on the table ! clients dont understand these, they love what they cant do with their cameras ! No one is pixel peep like us ! they cant even distinguish an image from Gopro and Red, they dont even know white balance.

Ive been practicing so hard my steadicam, dolly, crane all fancy shots for my clients. if C100 can do more slo motion, I can Charge more money. Fun Fact, true story.

I cant say go F yourself if you need slo motion. and I cant tell them to rent a camera just for that ! If they walk up to me say his iphone 5s can do 120 fps, what my fancy camera can do then ?

LOL, Hate these people, But If we dont deal with these people, we get no money
 
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I guess the new Arri Amira is a little late to the party given Apples latest iPhone 5S announcement... ;)
 
Looks quite nice... wonder about the price?

"AMIRA features the same sensor and exceptional image quality as the ARRI ALEXA, recording superior HD 1080 or 2K pictures that are suitable for any distribution format. With a dynamic range of more than 14 stops, low noise levels, subtle highlight handling, natural color rendering, breathtaking skin tones and speeds of up to 200 fps, AMIRA will deliver beautiful, life-like images in any situation.
AMIRA records Rec 709 or Log C images using ProRes LT, 422, 422HQ or 444 codecs. By recording to in-camera CFast 2.0 flash memory cards with super-quick data rates, the route into postproduction is made as simple as possible. CFast 2.0 is an open format, easily accessible to anyone and delivering a fantastic price-performance ratio through incredible transfer speeds, long recording times and compatibility with standard IT tools. Costs per GB are brought right down and higher-than-broadcast-quality image pipelines are made available even to low budget productions."


https://vimeo.com/74444377#
 
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