T2i Introduction & ? about lens for the t2i

T

Torben Scharling

Member
Help me decide: Canon t2i or HF S200 ?

Hey guys,

First post, so this will thread will also serve as an introduction, sorry for the lengthy post :P

My name is Torben Scharling, and I'm a 27yo guy out of Copenhagen, Denmark.

Main interest and knowledge lies in music, performing and production. I'm mainly a bassist, playing a 5-string fretless, but also do vocals, keyboard, drums, and guitar. Working on my own material, and starting to perform out in the city very soon, I am these days very focused on establishing a career and working behind the scenes to make this dream happen. Hopefully I'll find myself in a small apartment, with a job somewhere in Los Angeles by the end of this year - as this will be the next chapter in my life, and hopefully a permanent location based in California. I am very psyked, realistic but optimistic about the near future.

I'm super glad I've found this specific t2i forum, as there are many photographer learning materials on the web, video however is a smaller community still. So it's nice to see that I'm in such talented likeminded individuals "space". And hope to contribute and learn much from this. Hopefully resulting in some professional video and music products :)

I'm impatiently awaiting the new macbook pro that I've orderet, but haven't bought the camera yet.

My max is around $950 in total, but gladly less. I'm gonna use this cam for YouTube videos mainly - focusing on instructional videos (music lessons, tech tutorials, reviews, live concerts/studio jams, greenscreening - much of which will be shot in my 16m2 room) and hopefully later on for documtary movies.

So it's paramount that the video image quality is as crisp and pro as possible with this amount of money (and so far, no pro lights).

I've been looking at the Canon HF S200, but settled my mind on the getting the t2i because of the much better video image quality.

I have no idea though, what lens to go for with the purchase..the included one isn't good enough, for instance it suck for zooming while recording video.

In other words I need advice on a good allround starter lens that I don't nessesarily have to upgrade from the first long while that I'm using the camera? (have to take in softboxes and other things into the budget consideration so can't afford to make a mistake when purchasing the lense).

What I think might be best if to get a super wide angle lens? (and one that can give me a big depth of field). Because then I can have the camera on my tripod in the room, still be able to walk behind the camera to check settings, AND have 3 people in the shot - drummer, guitarist and bassist/vocals. I would like however, to just have to purchase 1 lens that can do this, but can also zoom in without any technial/visial issues. And if possible, also give me the possibility of playing with shallow'er depth of field.

Help and suggestions much appreciated. thanks
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Welcome, Torben!

The kit lens is plenty to do what you want. Please note that zooming is going to be a challenge no matter what lens you use with a DSLR. Fact is, they're all manual zoom lenses and there is no rocker-switch-control. The body and kit lens go for about $899, though some places (like B&H) have an instant rebate right now that brings it down to $849.

You'll be able to get shallow DOF with this lens. The super-fast lenses (1.8) are really popular right now because everyone seems to be ****ing in their pants over the fact that they can finally shoot shallow, and they seem to have forgotten that deep focus is used more often than shallow in motion pictures for a reason. The problem is that, at 1.8, DOF is razor-thin and it's really hard to keep anything at all in focus. You can get great results at 3.5 and even 5.6, especially since the imaging chips in these cameras are quite large. (i.e. 5.6 with the T2i is much better at shallow DOF than 5.6 on cameras like the DVX.)

You'll also have a pretty good wide shot with the kit lens. 18-55, since the camera has a 1.6x crop factor, is more like 28-80, but it still wide enough for most work.
 
I understand the manual focus requirement, and that's something I'm willing to learn to use, so I think I should get something different than the stock 18-55 lens. I would really like a 15, 16 or 17-XX lens that's not too expensive (possibly used) that will give wide angle shots without too shallow DOF and zoom function. Just dunno which one..?

Also, should I get one with built in stabilizor?
 
Hi Torben, welcome to DVXuser.

I'd have to agree with everything C2V said. There are no still lenses that you will be able to easily zoom with during your shot. Most don't even stay in focus when you zoom. These cameras need to be used like a 35mm motion camera. And that means minimal to no zooming.

There aren't alot of other lenses that will fit your budget. The kit lens is $100, compared to say the 17-85 (one of the cheaper Canon wide angle zooms) which is $450.

In my opinion you would be best off buying the kit lens now, then later when you have a better budget add something like the Tokina 11-16 for those super wide-shots.
 
Ok, I hate to disagree with you guys without knowing from hands on experience, but I just think that I would be unsatisfied with the stock lens, so wouldn't mind upping the budget a few hundred dollars to get a good lens from the get go that can atleast give me a proper wide shot. So you're saying I should go with the 17-85...okay, anyone else wanna share a quick comment?
 
Torben Scharling said:
Ok, I hate to disagree with you guys without knowing from hands on experience, but I just think that I would be unsatisfied with the stock lens, so wouldn't mind upping the budget a few hundred dollars to get a good lens from the get go that can atleast give me a proper wide shot. So you're saying I should go with the 17-85...okay, anyone else wanna share a quick comment?
Click to expand...

Define a "proper wide shot." What about the kit lens do you think won't give you the "proper wide shot" that you want? The kit lens is more than sufficient, and the difference between 17 and 18 at 1.6x crop is minimal. It's there, but it's minimal.

If you are willing to invest a little more on the front end, get the Tokina 16-50mm for $550. But still, you aren't going to find the zoom there any easier than with any other lens. I'm not saying that you cannot zoom with any of these lenses, only that the zoom will never be as smooth as with a servo control. But, in all honesty, even with my DVX I shoot 95% of the time with the zoom set to manual control and my fingers on the zoom ring. I zoom only to reframe between shots, and rarely as part of the content of any given shot.
 
Okay, after re-reading this thread a couple of times, I think I understand where we're getting confused.

A lens may be rated a f1.8, but it will still be able to stop down to f22 or even higher. To get your wide shot with really deep focus, you'll just need to stop down. Again, the kit lens will do this.
 
Frankly, I think your purposes may be better served by a video camera. For one thing, you or an assistant could monitor sound. And, unless you're planning on buying something like an H4N—it doesn't, based on your budget—you will be disappointed with the t2i's sound recording capability—its AGC, to be more exact.

But maybe you already own and plan to use your audio recording equipment.

That brings us to the matter of video quality. Sure, the t2i will give you narrow dof even with the crappy kit lens. But that lens is slow and lacks a constant aperture. So after a month you'll—in keeping with a low budget—purchase a few used Nikon primes. Or maybe even some older Russian lenses with psychedelic bokeh. And you'll be pleased with the IQ. However, you will not like the clip time limits. And, if your cam gets hot, you will need to shut it down for a while.

I guess if you've got separate audio recording equipment, a few hundred dollars more than your current limit for decent lenses, and a good deal of patience, the t2i will serve you and your bands' needs.

Don't get me wrong; I own a 7D and use it more than my DVX nowadays. I just can't imagine trying to maintain a high level of creativity in a band while working out the kinks of an hdslr at the same time.
 
Torben Scharling said:
So you're saying I should go with the 17-85...okay,
Click to expand...

No, I said that that is one of the cheapest. It won't offer a significant wide angle advantage over the kit lens. And zooming won't be any easier. It doesn't fit either of your requirements so I wouldn't get it.

To get the wider view you are looking for, you'd more likely want something like the EF-S 15-85 ($700) or even something like a Sigma 12-24 ($850). These are some of your cheaper options for super wide zooms and still won't make zooming any easier.

I'm curious as to who will be operating the camera? You say you want to zoom in the middle of a shot but you also say that you'll be standing up between takes to check on the camera - implying that the camera is unmanned during takes.

To further what C2V said about shallow depth of field, at 16mm or 17mm, you will have pretty deep DoF, even at f/4. Stopping down even more to f/8 will put almost the whole room in sharp focus.

I have to agree that a videocamera might better suit your needs. You said you are looking for deep DoF, and it seems like you are wanting one all round lens rather than utilising the interchangeable lenses to build up a kit. So, since you are not taking advantage of either of the t2i's major strenghts, why not get a videocamera instead? You said that you'd settled on the t2i because of the much better video quality. But in actual fact the HFS200 you mentioned will give a much sharper image, without the aliasing and miore which plague the t2i. The t2i often looks better because people have used it as a tool with proper composition, lighting, lens selection etc to achieve a certain look. They've also carefully consturcted their scenes to work around the disadvantages - the aliasing and moire, 12 minute limit, etc - while playing to it's strengths - shallow DOF, low light. If I was you I'd get a videocamera like the HFS200 and then get a decent wide angle converter for those wide angle shots.
 
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