Ins and Outs of Shooting with 5D in Professional Settings.

TimurCivan

Director of Photography
Staff member
So i have been using the 5D mkII for about three months now. Here are my essential findings about this camera.

1: Pre Production, essential equipment.

When using a 5D, there are several BIG obstacles to over come. Mainly, monitoring, Exposure, Audio, focus, compression. Basically every aspect of the camera is a work around. ugh. Now i say ugh, because, despite the amazing imagery, just working with the camera requires quite a bit of pre production.

A. monitoring:

Getting an HDMI capable small monitor is essential. You can use a good monitor like a panasonic BT LH900a like i have, and use a HDMI -> SDI converter. Though the image isnt neccesarily accurate because you have no idea whats gained or lost in the conversion, but its good enough for framing and focus. Or you can use a Marshall monitor with HDMI in. They have decent peaking, and its workable.

B Expousre:

Expose using a meter. Believe it or not, the Digital cameras can be metered like film. They are built to do this and its pretty accurate. This hasn't failed me yet. Standard light meters can be used to expose for the stills, and they do essentially work for the video function as well. I recommend shooting everything in a USER file that has minimum contrast, and a lower (like -1) color saturation. Also, make sure youre white balance is set properly. you can use the built in WB adjustments, or a Color Temprature meter, and then dial it in by hand using the kelvin setting.

C Audio:

MAGIC LANTERN. The only way to do it really. When i shoot interviews, its just easier to record internal sound, as dual system sound can be expensive, and productions small enough to warrant a 5D usually dont have the budget. The 5D records great audio, and its completely useable. I use sennheiser wireless lavs, and the XLR wireless transmitter pod, for shotgun mic work. BUY the actual 1' sennheiser brand 1/8th mini to 1/8th mini cable. it gives you both channels of recording in the camera. this way you can stagger the levels for a bit of extra protection. Magic lantern also gives you a few exposure tools as well as a Rec time left feature. GREAT. (more on magic lantern in a bit)

D Focus:

Follow focus is a must, and youre AC ( yes you kinda need one now, as 1080P and 3" DOF is unforgiving) must use distance marks. The monitor is good enough for rough focus, but you need to have it really nailed down. Try using Maual lenses with stops. I use the Bower adapter and FD lenses. They perform well at F4 and below, giving you crisp focus, shaprness and contrast. The bower actually performs quite well.

E: Compression

You want to expose properly, to give the DSP a nice fat signal to work with. Shooting flat and color correcting in post seems to be the name of the game at this point. I usually try to shoot for look in camera, but the 5D can lose alot when the contrast is up too high. For quick turn around interviews, i shoot for look, but anything narrative, or Music Video, i shoot flat and let the CC pass in post regain the contrast. Low contrast seems to be kinder to the algorithm as well so long as your are well exposed with good range of contrast in the scene. Flat subjects demand a more aggressive contrast in camera. The macro blocking will kick in if the subject is flat, and you shoot with low contrast in camera. So its sort of a balancing act. tuning the camera for the subject.


MAGIC Lantern:

While a great program, it can lock up the camera, and require a lengthy process of removing the battery, restarting, and reinitializing the firmware. This means you can miss essential shots. This has happened. I lost a shot of Madonna at a red carpet event because of this. Producer was not happy and didn't want to hear about firmware, or boot time. This is why i strongly suggest you use the appropriate camera for the job. The 5D is great for NON critical. MAgic lantern has also failed in that, the camera indicated recording, but it was not. I lost a section of an important interview, and didnt know until the cards were offloaded to the edit bay. No Es Bueno. However when it works, it works great. The audio control is invaluable.

EDITING:

Often the 30P H.264 1080p, must be conformed to 29.97, and trans coded to another format for editing and Color correction. This takes time, a lot of time. So be mindful when you need speed on an edit. The Native h246 is very taxing on a computer system, and can multiple layer s can grind the system to a halt.

I am telling you this so you can opt to go with the Proper camera for the job. The 5D IS NOT THE RIGHT CAMERA FOR EVERY JOB. It looks great, but, its not perfect.

my 2Cents.
-Timur
 
What made you acquire a 5d, Timur, if I may ask?

Everything I read about the V-DSLRs, including your post, makes me recall my Canon HV-20 and all the accessories I bolted onto it to make it "better" before stepping up to a larger video camera with more controls. Every V-DSLR rig I see has about $2k of add-ons attached to it to accomplish the "work-arounds" as you put it.

So, I'm curious what made you go this route when you've done work in the past with adapters and pro video cams. And I see a Red listed in your signature.

It just seems like a lot of work and fussing to get an image that can be had by alternative means.

Thanks
Bob
 
Quoted off a post from hdmom.com (in comparison to GH1 but still relevant in this case of what 5D requires)

No Built-In ND Filters - . I'm spoiled by my HVX. While shutter speed and ISO in photography can help control exposure, that's no good for video/film. So ND filters are a must. The opposite of light source control - light blockage control. Fortunately threaded filters are cheap, but not easy to swap on/off. A mattebox is expensive and bulky, but if it's time to get serious, that's the answer.

12 minute record limit - it's obvious how awful this is and eliminates this camera from doing anything that needs critical capture of an event. For me its for experimental art and controlled shoots, so I don't mind that limitation. I'm not sure of the record limit on the GH1, but if it's limited to memory card, that rocks.

No Articulating LCD - really painful, but I can work around it, and it just means less low/high angle shots. This is one of the features where the GH1 just completely smokes the 5D.


Makes me wonder if something small like the E-P2/GF-1 can achieve something close to 5D in results, but with much less hassle.
 
What made you acquire a 5d, Timur, if I may ask?

21.1 MP stills. I use it for my fashion work. Turns out everyone wants it for Video production. so.... i use it. its asked for by name on a regular basis...
 
.... Turns out everyone wants it for Video production. so.... i use it. its asked for by name on a regular basis...

That's the effect of viral marketing! Interesting since you could no doubt produce a "better" product with an HVX or Ex-1 or RED. Do they even ask your opinion or just say they want it shot with the 5d?

Koodos to Canon for making this happen.

Someone should viral market the Holga. It would be an interesting experiment to see if people demand imagery produced from a certain camera simply because there's a lot of buzz about it and without regard to overall image quality and ease of use compared with other technologies.
 
well they see that we shoot in 1/10th the light and get amazing images. that means cheaper for a producer.
 
well they see that we shoot in 1/10th the light and get amazing images. that means cheaper for a producer.


Uhhgggg. First Red, and now this. Has there ever been another time, historically speaking, when producers demanded a specific camera? I mean, formats - yeah, but a specific model camera?!?!

And now I see producer's all over, looking for DP's who own a Red package for features!

.
 
Timur have you tried the z-finder? I have a 7" HDMI LCD but I use the z-finder most of the time.

I'm having some trouble trying to use a follow focus because I can't get the 5D screwed down to my rig without any play. I'm going to try permanently attaching a manfrotto quick release to the camera.

I really dislike H.264. There's a rumour Nikon are about to release the D800 with 1080p. If it has a higher bit-rate mjpeg and manual control it could be a worthy replacement for the 5D. mjpeg just looks more analogue but knowing my luck Nikon will go for H.264.
 
Uhhgggg. First Red, and now this. Has there ever been another time, historically speaking, when producers demanded a specific camera? I mean, formats - yeah, but a specific model camera?!?!
All the time, this is nothing new. People still demand HVXs, for years that's all the requests you'd see on CraigsList. People would demand the VariCam, or the F900, whatever was the "buzz word" of the day...

And usually, yes, it's marketing, and the people asking for the specific camera may not know anything about cameras. But you kind of have to understand the mentality of the ad agency (which is usually the one asking for a specific camera) -- they are paranoid about trying anything new and having that be the point of failure, which embarrasses them in front of their client. So once they know something works, they'll stick with it for years, even if it's not the best, even if it's cheaper or better to use something else, because they want to eliminate as many points of failure as possible. It's traditionally been very difficult to break into the ad business because agencies will stick with one production company for years, as long as that guy keeps delivering, they'll stay with him, because it's a known quantity.

So when the Red became all the buzz, people were scared to try it, but as soon as somebody did, and word got out, then Red became all the rage. They got gorgeous results without having to pay 35mm prices.

And now the 5D has started the same process. Even though the 7D shoots actual 24p, they'll ask for the 5D because that's what they've heard everyone else is using, and it's working for them, so it'll work for us...
 
So once they know something works, they'll stick with it for years, even if it's not the best, even if it's cheaper or better to use something else, because they want to eliminate as many points of failure as possible. It's traditionally been very difficult to break into the ad business because agencies will stick with one production company for years, as long as that guy keeps delivering, they'll stay with him, because it's a known quantity.


I know ALL about that. And, it's hilarious that 2 or 3 agency people (in the past year) have all asked me about Red as if it were some magical camera with magical properties.



.
 
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Tim, I am curous, what's your choice of lenses when working with the 5D

Canon Lseriers 24-105 F4
Canon EF 50mm F1.4
Canon EF 85mm F1.8

W/ Bower adapter
Canon FD 20mm F2.8
Canon FD 24mm F2.8
CAnon FD 35mm F2.0
Canon FD 55mm F1.2
Canon FD 85mm F1.2
Canon FD 135mm F2.0
Canon FD 200mm F2.8
 
Do you like the Bower adapter? Is it sharp enough for video work? Does it hold infinity? Is it hard to remove from the lens?
 
it does hold infinity actually....

its drawbacks are that you have to shoot at a F4 on the 35mm lens, a 1.3 crop, and it loses a stop. IT is like shooting with an adpater. you cam is set to 640 ISO, but it feels like 100 ISO.

but you get full manual focus and iris'.
 
it does hold infinity actually....

its drawbacks are that you have to shoot at a F4 on the 35mm lens, a 1.3 crop, and it loses a stop. IT is like shooting with an adpater. you cam is set to 640 ISO, but it feels like 100 ISO.

but you get full manual focus and iris'.

Is there any advantage in using the FD lenses, or would you be better off with a set manual lenses with no rear glass adapter? Nikon for example.
 
Is there any advantage in using the FD lenses, or would you be better off with a set manual lenses with no rear glass adapter? Nikon for example.
Yes. A 50$ adapter let's me use 3k$ worth of lenses that rotate in the proper cinema direction....
 
Timur,

I didn't see you post any "ins" to using the 5D...just "outs". I've been using my 5D for several national TV ads and it's worked fantastically in ways I only dreamed my DOF rig would.

It's size, picture quality, controllable DOF, and solid state workflow is the perfect combination for me.

Here are a few photos from a couple shoots I recently did:
 

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