I'm looking for microphone/sound ideas.

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mayodaze

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Today, I'm to the point where I want to amp up my sound from the built-in sound. Since I'm mostly doing creative films, where microphones obviously need to be off camera. I'm pretty set on getting a shotgun of some sort. I don't doubt I'd get the Canon if am not strongly advised towards another mic here. So go ahead and make suggestions.

My big query is, as I don't want to be restricted to shotgun mic use, is how to go about a nice mic system utilizing the A1's sound ports. Modest, though. A pair of wireless lavalieres or a boom, maybe. Directly onto tape through the camera. I won't be capable anything fancier.

I could probably makeshift a boom mic with a decent microphone, but I'd love some suggestions for any mic for that or an actual boom mic. Then, I wonder how bad the inexpensive vhf lavaliere microphones are. Or what any of you guys would recommend for a lavaliere, minimum cost.

Thanks in advanced if anyone has insight. Bonus if you can provide a purchase link, cookie for retail locations in Minneapolis.
 
Go to the Audio section and read the stickies on top of the page. There's plenty of microphone recommendation on there for all price ranges.
 
octava m12 is around $199 from sound-room.com. get the hyper cardoid capsule with it, mount windshield, etc. this mic works well on a boom for a fairprice. Audio technica AT4073a is a great shotgun for mid level prices, $549 at B & H photo/video. I personally have the sanken CS-1 and it rocks, a shotgun in form but a lil' bit different in quality, also around $799 at B & H.
 
Thanks for the ideas. There's almost too much information in the Audio forum, I wasn't having fun sifting through.

Octava looks like it'll be awesome. Thanks for the suggestion. Kurt, I don't see M12, but the MK012 is there, black or silver, and the price you said. Is that her?

:)

I think the AT4073 at $549 is going to be more than I want to spend. Hopefully under $200 for the shotgun, as I just don't want to be using the built-in mic.

I think I figured out the windshield for the MK012, but could you link me to the mount?

Cables from that site, the standard ones, decent or bad idea? I usually get the idea that inexpensive cables are a bad idea, but it's what the site has so how bad could they be.

I think this'll do me for my boom, shotgun is still leaning towards a Canon.
Still hoping for some insight on lavalieres.

-Boom for under $200
-Lavaliere options
 
i am just learning this as well
put a boom in one channel
and a lavalier in the other
is what i was recommended
 
do a search on the lavs - g2 set will be your minimum at $500 (rec'd to get a different mic though, perhaps countryman emw). Minimum shotgun is going to be the rode ntg-1/2, minimum hyper the oktava. Those will be the answers you are going to get. from there its just going to cost more to get good sound. Good cables will be the canare star quard with neutrik connectors. You're going to find that good sound will cost approximately the same as a good camera outfit (which is more than just a camera). My advice would be to start with one mic that fits what you are shooting the best. Then build from there.
 
agwah said:
i am just learning this as well
put a boom in one channel
and a lavalier in the other
is what i was recommended
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Yeah, that's what I'll probably be doing. I'm looking for product recommendations.

jdajda said:
do a search on the lavs - g2 set will be your minimum at $500 (rec'd to get a different mic though, perhaps countryman emw). Minimum shotgun is going to be the rode ntg-1/2, minimum hyper the oktava. Those will be the answers you are going to get. from there its just going to cost more to get good sound. Good cables will be the canare star quard with neutrik connectors. You're going to find that good sound will cost approximately the same as a good camera outfit (which is more than just a camera). My advice would be to start with one mic that fits what you are shooting the best. Then build from there.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I wouldn't say I want a good sound outfit worth more than the camera. I think I could satisfy myself much lower at this stage of my career. I just think, better than what's on the camera, if only in versatility, such as the versatility of a boom mic and lavalier.

I'll try to digest what you suggest though. Though I think I'd be hoping for lavs at half that price, as well as a shot gun at half that price.
 
mayodaze said:
I'll try to digest what you suggest though. Though I think I'd be hoping for lavs at half that price, as well as a shot gun at half that price.
Click to expand...

Doesn't exist. You do get what you pay for. The shockmount that you want is the Rode SM3 btw. If you end up with a shotgun, that'll be an extra $120 for a windscreen because the stock one doesn't do anything.
 
Oh I'm fully aware of getting what I pay for. I'm fully aware that I probably piss a lot of people off because I'm going to throw crumby sound equipment on my A1, and that I hope someone will recommend a crumby unit.

Non-amazing sound won't make a good story bad. That's what I'm banking on. But of course, I do expect to be able to hear my actors on camera at least a little bit.
 
mayodaze said:
Non-amazing sound won't make a good story bad. That's what I'm banking on. But of course, I do expect to be able to hear my actors on camera at least a little bit.
Click to expand...

Actually it can. I've taken some time lately to go back and watch some of my early works and what I noticed wasn't that the shots looked bad or the story was lame (true on both counts) but that the sound is horrible. Nothing says unprofessional and turn people off your movie faster than hissy audio and background traffic overpowering the lines. Overexposed, out of focus shot, can be excused as artistic choice but when the audio is bad there's simply no excuse.

Look at it this way, if you're planning to continue doing film, buy a cheap mic now just means spending more money to buy in the future. Audio gear lose very little values over time. The AT4073a for example is three or four years old, but I bought it used six months ago for closed to retail. Your A1 is worth $3000 now but in six months it'll be much less than that as new models come out. Make the investment.
 
I don't intend on having bad, hissy audio and background traffic noise. I am constantly aware of the sound, but I fully intended on making due with lesser expensive equipment.

Though, I was still considering it, but now that you mention spending money now and more later, which seems really obvious only now that you mention it, isn't a great idea. So I might have to drop heavy cash.
 
drop the heavy cash - working with inferior eqpt produces inferior results and is generally frustrating to use. Imagine shooting professionally with a sony handycam. Running through the menus to adjust the "iris" and still getting crap for a movie. As for a bad sound not making a film bad. It can and it will. I would never rely on any part of my work to hold up the other. Bad story will kill a movie, bad audio will kill it, so will bad video, bad lighting, bad acting... see where I'm headed? If you want a cheap wireless that will make you hate wireless systems get a Nady. The crackly sound and unpredictable reception will add a nice flair to your work. As will the tinny sound of a cheap azden shotgun tied to a painters pole.
 
If I were you I'd get a Rode NTG-2 for outdoors and a NT3 for indoors, that plus post audio sweetening = more than good enough.
 
jdajda said:
drop the heavy cash - working with inferior eqpt produces inferior results and is generally frustrating to use. Imagine shooting professionally with a sony handycam. Running through the menus to adjust the "iris" and still getting crap for a movie. As for a bad sound not making a film bad. It can and it will. I would never rely on any part of my work to hold up the other. Bad story will kill a movie, bad audio will kill it, so will bad video, bad lighting, bad acting... see where I'm headed? If you want a cheap wireless that will make you hate wireless systems get a Nady. The crackly sound and unpredictable reception will add a nice flair to your work. As will the tinny sound of a cheap azden shotgun tied to a painters pole.
Click to expand...

You're very convincing. I'm a serial learn-it-the-hard-way type of guy, but since you folk are so adamant, I'll sell my kidney tomorrow.

Well, I'm kidding about the kidney. I happen to also be a serial serious-credit-debt kind of guy.

Not kidding about that, though I do make all my payments.
 
So, does anyone have an opinion outside of jdajda suggesting:

Rode NTG-2 for shotgun
Octava M12 for hyper/boom
Sennheiser G2 for wireless lavalier

I'm pretty much sold on an NTG-2 and M12. The Sennheiser, though, I may wait on. Any opinion on foregoing a wireless lav, and making due without? I mean, assuming I'm not shooting from 25 yards away, but doing general indoor/outdoor reasonably distanced shots.

I'd love to hear someone say 'this $350 wireless lavalier duo set will mount right on your A1 and do a suitable job with sound'.
 
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spare the sound save a kidney. no, but seriously, decent sound will require even a lil' bit extra coin. I would rather wait on making any of my shorts until i had enough cash to at least get the AT4073a, but that's just me and you're free to do it your way.
as far as the oktava and rode ntg-2 go, it's a pretty decent way to go for a startup. i've already recommended the oktava and i almost got the rode ntg-2 back when i was first looking. i've heard some good things about the ntg-2 so it seems like a better bet than the AT897, sennheiser me66 or others in that price range. good luck. get the SM3 shock mount.
 
On the Rode - if you are always going to have Phantom Power then get the NTG-1 - same mic, just cant use batteries. And if given the option always take phantom over batteries. The NTG-2 will be more versatile should phantom power not be available, but its longer and a tad more $$$.

And please read up on the oktava and its handling/wind issues. This is its major flaw if any. BBG is practically a must. Toss in a windjammer if you are going outside with it. KSSM shockmount seems to be the king of shockmounts for this mic as well.

Save goes for NTG-1/2 - get some fur (either a full zeppelin or a windjammer style fur) if its going to be outside much.

And are you booming these mics? Neither will be all that impressive camera mounted.

As for skipping the wireless - I would for now. How many scenes have characters that far away with understandable dialogue? They're handy but can be expensive. As a work around you could do this - get an emw lav ($149) and use it wired to the camera with a 50' cable. You'll get much better sound and just hide the mic cable somewhere in the shot - if you are outside grass will do just fine.

Sorry to throw more stuff to buy at you - I've been budgeting my own full audio set in the past couple of days and have it on my mind - I'm only up to about 10k to get me up and running! yay! Luckily I dont need all of it at once and will be upgrading in stages. big expensive stages...
 
I appreciate you throwing it out there so I learn, though.

You make a good point, so the NTG-1 seems to make more sense. I was intending to use it as a camera mounted shotgun, and then boom the Octava. I understood that the suggestions went that way.

Is the KSSM shockmount the SSM-1 mount on sound-room.com? Otherwise, I found the baby ball gag, and the wind jammer on sound-room for the Octava. And some fur for the NTG-1 was found.

But I suppose I still need to get on the same page as you for whats mounted, what isn't. I suppose I could arrange for two booms for certain situations, but for certain things, I would definitely intend on mounting one and going without any other mic.

I'll probably forego wireless lavs for now.
 
mayodaze said:
Is the KSSM shockmount the SSM-1 mount on sound-room.com? Otherwise, I found the baby ball gag, and the wind jammer on sound-room for the Octava. And some fur for the NTG-1 was found.
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It's not. Don't get that one, it's really fragile. I accidentally bumped it while on a boom and it broke. The KSSM is this one

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/323324-REG/K_Tek_KSSM_K_SSM_Shock_Mount.html

And this is a minimum for the NTG-1

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/267845-REG/Rycote_033031_12cm_Small_Hole_Softie.html

And the Oktava

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/322364-REG/Rycote_011002_Baby_Ball_Gag_Windshield.html
 
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