Braindead@70
Well-known member
Has anyone had a problem continuing to use their mics that came with an illegal freq block? Mine can not be modified and I can not afford to trash very expensive systems.
Illegal frequency
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Richard Crowley
Veteran
Depends on WHAT frequency, WHEN you are using it, and WHERE you are.
Can you get away with using 700 MHz band gear in North America (2 years after the shutdown)?
Probably in West Undershirt, North Dakota on a Sunday morning, nobody will know or care.
If you tried it in New York, or San Francisco, or Washington, DC you might actually summon a visit from one of the remaining FCC field enforcement team.
After the FCC blew the whistle and kicked us all out of the 700MHz pool, and then sold it off for millions (billions?) of $$$$, I don't see any great rush by the licencees to start using their newly-acquired bandwidth for all those shiny new wireless devices they were promising. But I'm sure they are coming someday.
And there are probably some life-safety related services SOMEwhere that use bits of the 700 MHz band, so there is some (likely small) possibility that you could interfere with a radio communication resulting in the bank robber getting away, or the heart-attack patient expiring the ambulance, or somebody's house burning down.
Now, if you could complete your user profile to at least reveal what country you are in, we might have a better chance of knowing where you're coming from (in the philosophical sense as well as the geographic sense).
Can you get away with using 700 MHz band gear in North America (2 years after the shutdown)?
Probably in West Undershirt, North Dakota on a Sunday morning, nobody will know or care.
If you tried it in New York, or San Francisco, or Washington, DC you might actually summon a visit from one of the remaining FCC field enforcement team.
After the FCC blew the whistle and kicked us all out of the 700MHz pool, and then sold it off for millions (billions?) of $$$$, I don't see any great rush by the licencees to start using their newly-acquired bandwidth for all those shiny new wireless devices they were promising. But I'm sure they are coming someday.
And there are probably some life-safety related services SOMEwhere that use bits of the 700 MHz band, so there is some (likely small) possibility that you could interfere with a radio communication resulting in the bank robber getting away, or the heart-attack patient expiring the ambulance, or somebody's house burning down.
Now, if you could complete your user profile to at least reveal what country you are in, we might have a better chance of knowing where you're coming from (in the philosophical sense as well as the geographic sense).
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
Usually the wireless microphones don't reach far so I'd say it's safe to use them regardless of frequency. It's probably you who will experience interference.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
THe FCC will get interested IF you are stomping on a freq others are using. But since this has gone "consumer" if you are stomping on others they probably won't have the the know how to "know it" so your biggest problem will be with them stomping o you. This will probably get worse (for you) with time, as more and more of that band is put in use by consumer gear. I doubt that the FCC will be very active in enforcement since it is very unlikely that the guy whose XYZ controler is acting up will be able to report that they are getting interference. If you start impacting commercial users then expect much more diligent enforcement.
Bruce Watson
Veteran
Can you afford to do the jail time? At least some of the 700MHz block (which I assume you are talking about) is now used by emergency responders. If you interfere with their communications, you're probably committing a felony. Worst case you might get someone killed. There's a reason we are now banned from using these frequencies.
The rest of that spectrum is largely for cell phones. Which interfere like crazy with a wireless mic. Walk all over it.
I'm just sayin' that it's not like that portion of the spectrum that was taken from us is sitting around empty. It's being used, and a lot of it is being used heavily. And a lot of it needs to be kept clear for emergency uses.
That said, there's a market for your illegal mics. Overseas. What's illegal here isn't necessarily illegal there. Sell 'em overseas and buy legal wireless mics. It's the right thing to do.
jamedia.uk
Well-known member
Here, there and overseas are relative.Without knowing the location of the OP it is difficult to give any advice. Radio mics have a very short range and the OP could continue to use them for many years with no one being any the wiser.
That does it! I'm moving to West Undershirt, North Dakota. :happy:
Seriously though, I have an old Sennheiser Evolution G2 set that I don't use. I was going to give to a friend who's starting a wedding video business. Can that model have its frequency band changed?
jamedia.uk
Well-known member
I would't go there. Recently the place has been flooded with old filmmakers with dodgy equipment, house prices have shot up and you can't find a spare frequency for your radio mics
I doubt it could be done cost effectively. It is going to need new firmware done by "someone" and then retested for the FAA which will cost a lot.
Some one could to it as a business opportunity but there are only a finite number of these systems (and it will be different for each make) so I doubt if any one will do it legally. Ie they might be able to do the electronics but not the retesting/certification. so whilst it would work practically you could still be operating illegally.
Braindead@70
Well-known member
I am the author of the original question. I live in Atlanta, GA. Can you offer any more advice? Even my church operates in the "illegal" freqs.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Only if you are planning to fly it...
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
You didn't hear it from me... but churches have been getting a pass in the past... but like most such things, it doesn't make it less 'illegal'...
I don't think a wireless mic is on the same par with 'pirate' radio, but there is a movement to crack down on pirate radio, which means someone will be monitoring various frequencies... one of the issues with 'pirate' radio is that he owners will take legitimate 'commercials' for pay... and of course the entity purchasing the commercial time, may not know they are dealing with an unauthorized radio station.
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
I would't go there. Recently the place has been flooded with old filmmakers with dodgy equipment, house prices have shot up and you can't find a spare frequency for your radio mics
I doubt it could be done cost effectively. It is going to need new firmware done by "someone" and then retested for the FAA which will cost a lot.
Some one could to it as a business opportunity but there are only a finite number of these systems (and it will be different for each make) so I doubt if any one will do it legally. Ie they might be able to do the electronics but not the retesting/certification. so whilst it would work practically you could still be operating illegally.
Yes modifications to flying microphones have to be tested with the FAA and and the FCC...
Unless the device is designed with easy frequency changing via a 'module' or the like, a device is certified and has the certification numbers for a particular frequency. I believe there may be 'soft' requests, which may not need paying another round of testing, but it probably is not worth it to Shure, et al. to go through that for 'reworking' devices. It is 'easier' for them to sell new and fully tested at the given 'new' frequency.
The 700mhz emergency band is largely unused. The plan was to make the band clear by whatever means, and the government was going to subsidize the equipment purchases. The government money never came through, so the emergency services never got their radios. This comes from one of the people programming these radios in my area, the 911 center never even installed 700mhz gear and there are no plans to do so in the foreseeable future. What they did was buy some "base" units and equip a few mobile relay trucks so that different departments could talk to each other. Still a kluge from a firefighters point of view, but mostly working.
All that said, I do not condone using these illegal systems. But don't be surprised if this band comes back to us, because no one else wants it right now.
All that said, I do not condone using these illegal systems. But don't be surprised if this band comes back to us, because no one else wants it right now.
jamedia.uk
Well-known member
FCA? I don't know what you use over there... its overseas
In which case: either god will protect or your going to hell....
To be honest it will depend on your location (and don't give it here) but if there is no one else likely to be using the frequencies within 200 yards you are likely to get away with it.
If caught be shocked, surprised and claim compete ignorance. It is highly unlikely they will take action against a Church for an honest mistake. They will probably just tell you to stop using them.
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
From what I can tell, T-Mobile has a chunk of the 700 MHz band and is deploying radios in that band as part of its LTE service. There may be other carriers in the 700 MHz band but T-Mobile was the only hit I could
with a brief search...
So while Public Safety may languish... commercial uses will go up...
The 'big deal' with UHF is that it has greater propagation capability, and so is useful in sparsely populated areas like 'out in the country'... or use less power when 'in town'...
It should also be obvious that for 'occasional use' someone probably isn't going to see the FCC Black Marias out to apprehend people... now a 'church' with a repeatable Sunday interference... could be a different story...
Again that fact does not make it less illegal to operate in the band...
Also most new phones, like the my iPhone 6S, has many frequency bands of operation, ranging from 2+ GHz to 700 Mhz, to allow for almost any current service to be used world wide...
So, if phones are capable of using a band... it indicates someone somewhere wants to operate on that band...
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
I'm pretty sure the first notice would be on the order of a cease and desist notice, and if the user of such equipment complies, no further action will be taken... if someone continues... things could get 'problematic'...
Unless the church was doing some sort of 'pirate' radio, that is full time broadcast content not related to typical microphone use...
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
I would never advocate for doing something illegal. But connecting pirate radio and wireless mics is on the edge of absurd. You can legally (in the US) operate a low level FM radio station. Those stations have a lot more range than the wireless mic transmitters.
The issues (out side of legality) is not you hitting emergency radios etc. unless you are using them AT a crime scene since you are WAY lower powered that they are. The FCC doesn't sit around scanning for illegal broadcasting unless it is reported as a problem by a licensed operator. As a non licensed operator they are not going to do a lot to you the first time unless you were doing something with malicious intent. If you happen to be a licensed operator such as a HAM radio operator, as I am, then they are likely to be a bit nastier since we are expected to know and follow the rules, unlike a non licensed operator who has a fair amount of "probable deniability".
What is most likely to be a problem is IF there are emergency units on your freq they will crush your signal. They may not pick you up but their much stronger signal will definitely step on yours.
My handheld transiever, which is not a lot bigger than a G3 transmitter can transmit 25-50 miles relatively easily, how many miles is the wireless mic transmitting? How useful would emergency radios be if they only had the range of your wireless system?
So you are not likely to get "caught" because you are very unlikely to ever be "heard", even if you were on local freq. But if you are on local freq.'s then your mics will probably be useless because you will get stepped on a LOT.
So if you can't afford to have your channel stepped on then you probably need to get a system that is in the reserved bands. If you are more flexible in your needs and or out away from traffic in that band you are probably fine. In either case you have almost zero chance of getting picked up on an emergency radio unless you can actually see the emergency vehicle/ personnel. Your wattage is too low and your antenna is too small.
The issues (out side of legality) is not you hitting emergency radios etc. unless you are using them AT a crime scene since you are WAY lower powered that they are. The FCC doesn't sit around scanning for illegal broadcasting unless it is reported as a problem by a licensed operator. As a non licensed operator they are not going to do a lot to you the first time unless you were doing something with malicious intent. If you happen to be a licensed operator such as a HAM radio operator, as I am, then they are likely to be a bit nastier since we are expected to know and follow the rules, unlike a non licensed operator who has a fair amount of "probable deniability".
What is most likely to be a problem is IF there are emergency units on your freq they will crush your signal. They may not pick you up but their much stronger signal will definitely step on yours.
My handheld transiever, which is not a lot bigger than a G3 transmitter can transmit 25-50 miles relatively easily, how many miles is the wireless mic transmitting? How useful would emergency radios be if they only had the range of your wireless system?
So you are not likely to get "caught" because you are very unlikely to ever be "heard", even if you were on local freq. But if you are on local freq.'s then your mics will probably be useless because you will get stepped on a LOT.
So if you can't afford to have your channel stepped on then you probably need to get a system that is in the reserved bands. If you are more flexible in your needs and or out away from traffic in that band you are probably fine. In either case you have almost zero chance of getting picked up on an emergency radio unless you can actually see the emergency vehicle/ personnel. Your wattage is too low and your antenna is too small.
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
I shot with a clients older Sennheiser G2 systems a few weeks ago with illegal frequencies and it worked. I had to scan to find some free space and found a couple of channels that worked. So it's easy to just scan where ever you are and hopefully there will be some free channels to use.
Alright, folks.
The fact is that the 700MHz band is illegal to use in the United States. Period.
We do not advocate breaking the law around here. It has also been pointed out that there are some serious concerns about interrupting emergency service communications in that band, which is risk enough not to chance it.
It isn't legal, and thus it shouldn't be done. Let's leave it at that.
The fact is that the 700MHz band is illegal to use in the United States. Period.
We do not advocate breaking the law around here. It has also been pointed out that there are some serious concerns about interrupting emergency service communications in that band, which is risk enough not to chance it.
It isn't legal, and thus it shouldn't be done. Let's leave it at that.
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