"Ideal" Mac Pro editing set-up?

9

911split

Member
I'm new to digital editing. Yet, i've already decided to invest in a Mac Pro editing set-up, and obviously edit via Final Cut Studio. I plan to order my Mac by around March, but possibly sooner.

I've no experience in digital editing and want to know what i will need to be able to do my editing fast & efficiently. I don't know what may or may not be overkill. I have this fear that if i get the "wrong" set-up that it will be like years ago when i had a SLOW computer and it took at least 30 seconds (usually more) everytime i clicked on a new link while surfing the net.

Aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

I want to avoid having to sit around and wait, and wait, and wait on my computer.

I'll be shooting & editing feature films in 720p/24p and/or 720p/24pN.

1. Is a 30" Apple display overkill for720p/24p or 720p/24pN editing? Is a 23" Apple display more than enough?

2. Is editing with two displays much more efficient than with one? Would three displays be too much? What actual utility or advantage would there be for using two, three, or more monitors?

3. Do i need (2) superdrives? If yes, then why?

4. How much RAM do i need? And what configuration? I don't want to add "too much RAM" that would never end up even being used. I don't care about bragging rights - just practicality. I've always heard people say that you can never have "too much RAM" but would like to know the reality as it applies to HVX editing.

5. What graphics card(s) is/are "best" and why? Apple offers basically three differnet graphic card choices. Why does Apple offer 1, 2, 3, or 4 NVIDIA 7300 GT 256MB cards installed together, but just a single ATI Raedeon X1900 XT 512MB card or a single NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 512 card? Why not two ATI Raedeons or two NVIDIA Quadros? Why not one of each? Is the Quadro FX simply overkill for 720p editing and really for ultra-detailed high speed video game graphics? Complicating this is the fact that both ATI Raedeon and NVIDIA make many more graphic cards than are offered directly from/with Apple Mac Pros. I'm totally in the dark on this topic. Help!

6. Another baffling point for me is the soundcard! Is the stock Apple soundcard simply as good as the Creative Audigy 2ZS 24-bit 7.1 blah, blah, blah or whatever card i have in my PC? For PC's there are so many choices in this category, but there seem to be none with Apple! Why?

7. A Fibre Channel Card is listed as an option, but i can't make heads or tails of it. I'm going to invest in a CinePorter and don't know if there is any relevance regarding the RAID ramblings. Does the Fibre Card have something to do with office servers and using multiple computers and such or...?

8. How many Hard Drives will i need? From what i gather i'll need separate hard drives for:

a. my OS
b. my raw footage
c. my edited footage
d. my music collection (it is massive, and seems like it'd be a good idea)

9. How much storage do i need for each?

a. 250 GB ? - seems like plenty, especially since i want a separate drive for my music
b. 500 MB ?
c. 500 MB ?
d. 500 MB - i kinda already decided on this :)

10. Is one TB enough while working in 720p/24p or 720p/24pN, or do i need 2 full TB's for my raw footage and manipulated/finalized footage?

11. Lastly, (just for kicks) if a new HVX were suddenly offered with 1080p/24p and/or 1080p/24pN capability, then how would that affect all the questions? I figure that someone editing Sony CineAlta F900 footage will know the editing requirements for the aforesaid format.

Thanks for reading!
 
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Hey 911 -
I guess I can share the benefits and pratfalls with two different mac setups. At work I have what Bret Stern (enjoyable vid/film author) would call the "A$$hole Filmmaker Setup" - that is money is no object and when I "need" something it is purchased - a 30" Cinema Display, Quad G5 with 4GB of RAM. At home I am definitely on a budget - a 20" iMac with 1/2 TB of internal drive and 2GB of RAM. The good news is that even the low budget setup works more than sufficiently for me. Truth be told my new iMac isn't far off the pace of the Quad at times. Certainly the Mac Pros will be considerably faster...

so...

1. IF you have the money the 30" is very nice. Both FCP viewers can be set at 100% which is really nice. Although the better investment may be the 23" Cinema coupled with nice professional broadcast monitor.

2. I'm a single monitor person (which i'm sure varies across the board), BUT that second broadcast monitor would be invaluable for color correction, etc.

3. Don't know... do you? If you plan on ever burning the finished products to a SD DVD, a Superdrive would be necessary. I'd keep the second bay open so at some point you could install a Blu-Ray drive.

4. 2GB to me is the minimum amount to keep your sanity. The new memory for the Mac Pros is SUPER expensive, but so is an HVX - if you can manage shoot for 4GB (but again I am honest to god managing with 2GB on a Core Duo).

5. I'm not as wise to the best video card option - hopefully someone has some smarts on this. Although what you really may be after is an internal Aja card or something similar...

6. Who knows... but the Apple one is pretty good and handles 5.1 (and maybe 7.1 - but i am not sure at all on that)

7. For me this is not a necessity. If you've got a serious RAID/Server setup it's something you should investigate, but probably not worth the money for most individuals.

8./9./10. Just remember for every GB you shoot, you'd better plan on at least making one back-up and probably a second. Just think about your configs... you going to back-up with external HDs every day, burn to DVDs (remember that Superdrive?)? On my 1/2TB, I use ~250GB a month (i.e. new projects, then backed up to external drives, etc) - but that's just what I need for me. You'll have to anticipate how much you want to shoot, keep on your drives, etc

11. It does have 1080/24p... and it won't affect your setup significantly. Everything will take a little longer and require more drive space for the same amounts of recorded time, but your compy isn't going to suddenly be unable to manage.
 
I have a PowerMac 2.5, with 4.5gigs of ram, (2) 23" Montiors, I dont deal with sound cards, I bought a mixer with firewire/usb. Get a bunch of 40gb internal hard drives, about a terabyte in exteranls, I reccremend (5) 200gb externals. I ONLY use Maxtor. For the field. Find an Maxtor external with a 10,000 RPM and firewire 800.

Get what you can afford. Buying the top of the line, will only help you. the funny thing is EVEN the BASELINE of of the apple Deskrop's will work MORE than adequately. WITHOUT any flaws, as long as you add atleast 2gigs of ram. :)

Make sure you have 2 Super drives, and since you like one monitor, well I would say 30" Cinema Display, but you are going to get better real estate w/ 2 23"'s .
 
Too many points here and I'm going blind trying to read. So, here's my ideal Mac Pro set up, regardless of the questions (I love playing politician-- answer whatever you want to say regardless of the question).

Big thing is graphics card-- Radeon x1900. No reason for high-end nVidia card but X1900 is essential.
4gb RAM but you could even get by with 2 gb
Build CTO and save money by going with 160 gb start-up disk instead of 250.
Put that difference toward Seagate 750 or Hitachi 500 drives from zipzoomfly.com or newegg.com. Add as many drives as you need/afford. Raid is not essential.
Monitoring is critical-- if you do not need a capture card, go with Matrox MXO for the second port on your X1900 and get another Cinema Display 24 or a Dell 24. Use that either for dual monitor work or to monitor HD in Apple CInema Display mode.

Ned Soltz
 
If you are planning to use the Matrox MXO, my understanding is that is will not work with a 30-inch ACD.

The X1900 is essential, in my view, for Motion work. It isn't crucial for FCP work, and I believe Ned would agree.

No need for two SuperDrive.

The real issues are HD space, and RAM.
 
You do need two super Drives. One to watch your DVD while you burn your 4gig p2 card onto a DVD, or burn 2 4gig p2 cards at the same time while watching your Evo TV... Plenty of reason enough. But sometimes I like watching a DVD while burning at the sametime. This is why the New towers come with 2 Super drives. Maximum Workflow.And Funflow.

And as I said in my previous post and as david said. Ram and HDD is main is key.
 
The only reason I would say that the x1900 is crucial for FCP work is that we are already beginning to see some off-loading of FCP functions to the GPU. The limited support of Fxplugs in FCP 5.1.2 is a hint of things to come. And, there is something else I just learned from an Apple engineer last week-- when you send a clip to Motion and then bring back into FCP, the rendering goes through Motion (and the video card).

So, I would go with the x1900 right now.

Ned
 
Just wondering if anybody is using a capture card like the DecklinK HD Pro PCIe any comments on the advantages of these cards. I know you can attach a SDI monitor to them for editing and colour correction. I am curious as to the advantages they offer when exporting to other high end systems and what the difference is when using them. Do you think they should be added to your ideal system ?
 
You would want capture cards if you are going to capture anything other than firewire into your Mac or if you need to output SD, uprez to a higher codec and do other transcoding functions. If you merely want to monitor your FCP timeline, then the Matrox MXO is the answer, which would also give you SDI output and the ability to downrez to SD.

Ned
 
Thanks for all the responses.

I'm still stuck on the Hard Drive options. I think a 160 GB O.S. hard drive would be adequate, as nsoltz (Ned) suggested. I'd like to have my raw (master) footage on a hard drive. I'll also make DVD backups for safe measure too. My use will be for editing a feature - to give you an idea of the kind of footage (hours, minutes) i may have. So, here are some Q's:

A. Wouldn't it be best to import footage from my "master" footage drive, edit it and then save the manipulated footage to a different hard drive? (As opposed to having both master and manipulated footage on the same drive).

B. Are the hard drives in the Mac Pro made by Apple, or somebody else?

C. Are Apple hard drives overpriced for what their performance is (7200 rpm, don't know about their seek times or any other specs)? Or, are Apple drives a bargain? How do Apple hard drives compare to the competition? Seagate seems way, way, way overpriced! Hitachi? Matrox??? How do all these hard drive manufacturers compare as far as performance, reliability, warranty, and dollars per utility? (I noticed some of these manufacturers have 5-year warranties. I think Apple's is only 3 years).

D. As far as hard drive rpm, 10,000 and 15,000 rpm drives exist. Can anyone give me a real example of the time one or both of these drives saved you over an older, slower drive? Also, isn't there eventually going to be a point where the faster rpm speeds are just splitting hairs? Are we there yet? Around what speed may that be the case?

E. Internal vs external hard drives? I have my name on the wait list for a CinePorter, so i just don't see the why i'd go for an external drive(s). I don't plan on emptying footage while i'm still out in the field/on the set shooting. Aren't external drives more prone to damage than an internal drive anyway? Storing completed projects (along with their accompanying raw and manipulated footage) on an external drive(s) may be a possibility some time down the road. But, are there any other reasons why an external drive would be recommended?

Lastly, i can't make heads or tails of the Matrox MXO as it pertains to making a feature film. I have no plans on down-rezing my HD footage. I don't really forsee capturing anything but what i shoot with my HVX. Reading the Matrox website made my eyes glaze over...

F. Don't you need a production monitor for color correction, regardless if you have a Matrox MXO? Or, is having a Matrox MXO a way to transform your computer monitor into a color correction monitor?

I'm stumped on this one.

Thanks.
 
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Thanks for the link, proximity.

Could you expand on your "2x 20GB (Raid 0 scratch)." I've never done digital editing, so i'm in the dark on this. Please explain the reason/use of the above set-up.

I'm looking at buying by March, and i think that the 3.0Ghz dual will be the same price as the 2.66GHz dual is now. Who knows, maybe the middle option will be 3.2GHz dual or 3.5GHz dual by then ??? I'm looking at least at a 2.66GHz dual with 4 GB of RAM and the ATI x1900 card. What type of RAID would you recommend for my set-up?

Thanks.
 
There are different types of Raid. Some setups put all data on both drives, so that if one drive dies, you still have another backup. - Other setups involve splitting data on to multiple drives. This means, You only write half the data to each drive, so one drive dies, you loose all data from all the associated RAID drives. The good thing about this is you get double the hard disk speed because you have to drives working with the same data for you. - I recommend this setup for temp data, like a scratch disk for photoshop. - Not a place to store any user-usefull data at all. Make sense?

I have 2x500 GB simply because HD video takes up lots for space. I dont want to raid these into a dualbackup solution (RAID 1), but I know I will manually make backups for crucial files. In any workflow HD space is a great tool.

I got 2 GB of ram because 4 GB is too expensive for me. But I would rather want 4 GB. I Choose the ATI card because it's not that expensive but I expect CoreImage to grow quite alot in the future. So a good gfx card is useful. Also, I do want to play great games on my new 30" :)

I choose the 30" because I at least needed the 23" to view HD video, still I also think I will use this display for many years to come, therefore, I want something I enjoy starring at day by day those next years.

If you want to learn more about Raid. Go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID#RAID_0

If you are very new to video, just buy an iMac.
 
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