IATSE - 10 Days To Go

Doug Jensen said:
That's not symbolism. It is just a way to help the audience quickly identify the two different sides. The actual color that each side was assigned is irrelevant. If you reversed the light saber colors, you'd have the exact same movie.

When Lucas says "that's just the way it works." He is referring to each side being assigned a team color, not that the colors themselves have any significance. You are reading stuff into that isn't there. But then again, you are a chronic sufferer of apophenia, so it is to be expected.

In case you have never noticed it before, whenever two sports teams battle it out on the playing field they each have different colored uniforms. Even in war, each side typically has a different colored uniform. It really helps everyone involved tell one side from the other, but the colors themselves are irrelevant.

BTW, white is usually associated with purity, perfection, honesty, and cleanliness. "White is clean, simple, and pure. It stands in stark opposition to black, and its meanings are unequivocal. As white light contains all the colors of the spectrum, it’s an inclusive, impartial color, favoring no single hue and refusing to take sides." https://www.sensationalcolor.com/meaning-of-white/

The Storm Troopers are dressed in white. If Lucas was concerned with symbolism they would have been in some other color.
Your theory about colors is bunk.
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This is randomania. Lucas assigns colors and you assume they're chosen at random.

Top Google hits for what each color symbolizes:

Green as a Symbol
Since most plants are green, the color often represents nature or the environment. Green can also symbolize good health and vitality. This color may also be used to signify balance, fertility, and renewal...

The color blue represents both the sky and the sea and is associated with open spaces, freedom, intuition, imagination, inspiration, and sensitivity. Blue also represents meanings of depth, trust, loyalty, sincerity, wisdom, confidence, stability, faith, and intelligence.

The color red can symbolize many things, including:
Danger and sacrifice
Because red is the color of blood, it has historically been associated with these concepts.
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When Lucas says "that's just the way it works," he's telling Jackson that those are his only options.

Nobody needs help telling who is on which team in a one-on-one duel where one guy is wearing full-body black armor. The significance is the subliminal associations.

And you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that every color in the movie was symbolic. My guess about stormtrooper armor is that Vader was going to be black for symbolic/intimidating reasons and they didn't want the stormtroopers to be black as well. Plus, the empire has a neurotic ideology of racial purity.

But I never said that every color choice in every movie had a symbolic meaning. Why is the millennium Falcon the color that it is? Why is Chewbacca's fur the color that it is? For no significant reason I can detect.

But when you see a significant choice made in a verifiable pattern, there's more being said than meets the eye. That's what you're missing.
 
Doug Jensen said:
I wasn't referring to Freud.
So, once again, you are making connections that were unintended by whomever made the statement/film/literature/art. Your mind craves finding a deeper meaning even when there is none intended.
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Freud said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" and you said "sometimes a parking meter is just a parking meter." I apologize for thinking you made a clever reference. I should have known better.
 
Doug Jensen said:
1 in 12 men has some form of color blindness. So, according your theory, 12% of the male audience that watches a Star Wars movie can't fully appreciate the film at the level Lucas intended, right?
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Yeah, obviously if you can't tell the difference between the lightsaber colors then you're going to miss out on that element both visually and symbolically.

Let's not forget that your first explanation for differing lightsaber colors was "having two different colored light sabers just looks good on film."
 
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I want to know what themes, meanings, and symbolism Abe can find from my magnum opus feature film, "Unavailable Light."

This is free on YouTube now but once Netflix buys it you'll need a Netflix subscription to view it.

 
Eric Coughlin said:
I want to know what themes, meanings, and symbolism Abe can find from my magnum opus feature film, "Unavailable Light."

This is free on YouTube now but once Netflix buys it you'll need a Netflix subscription to view it.

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Well, I can tell you that the title is a play on "available light." Or it could be a random combination of words that just sounds cool. I've been told I have apophenia.
 
ahalpert said:
Let's not forget that your first explanation for differing lightsaber colors was "having two different colored light sabers just looks good on film."
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Yes, please don't forget that I said that because I stand by that statement 100%.
The colors are irrelevant, as long as each side has a different color than the other. The contrast in color looks good on film and identify the good guys and bad guys. The choice of colors matter not.
 
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Paul F said:
And so what have the two of you learned from this discussion?
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Nothing at all.
My initial statement that Luke is an a-hole has not been disproven. Even if some viewers choose to see a dozen Jesus symbols in the film, it does not change that fact.
 
IA will not strike. A deal is all but done.

But I’m not so sure about the teamsters.

They do have an appetite to strike.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Yes, please don't forget that I said that because I stand by that statement 100%.
The colors are irrelevant, as long as each side has a different color than the other. The contrast in color looks good on film and identify the good guys and bad guys. The choice of colors matter not.
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The first thing you said was that the colors just look good together on film. And when you found out there was a pattern, you said that the colors are chosen at random to represent opposing sides in the conflict like team jersey colors. Those are not the same statement.

Even if you look at team jersey colors, they're not chosen at random. They're symbolic. Like the Buffalo Bills wear blue and red because their team colors are red white and blue which obviously reflect the American flag. Those colors were chosen for the American flag because:

Red, white, and blue are the colors of the American flag and have symbolic meanings that trace back to the country's founding:
  • Red
    Symbolizes hardiness, valor, and bravery. It was also the color of the Grand Union, America's first unofficial flag.
  • White
    Symbolizes purity and innocence. The white stars on the flag can also represent the heavens and the divine goal that humans aspire to.
  • Blue
    Symbolizes vigilance, perseverance, and justice. The shade of blue used in the flag is called "Old Glory Blue," which comes from a dye made from the indigo plant.
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Basically I don't think you're going to acknowledge symbolism unless the creator explicitly acknowledges the intent. And then you'll say they're stupid and symbolism sucks.
 
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ahalpert said:
The first thing you said was that the colors just look good together on film. And when you found out there was a pattern, you said that the colors are chosen at random to represent opposing sides in the conflict like team jersey colors. Those are not the same statement.
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Yes, that is correct. The two things are not mutually exclusive. In other words, both things can be true at the same time.
 
Wait a second. You're so full of crap you can't even keep your symbolism straight.

First you told us . . .
"Take a movie like Star Wars. You've got the red and blue crossed lightsabers where the blue represents good and the red evil."

Then you told us . . .
"Red is the color of blood. In other words, red is the color of death."

And now you tell us . . .
"Red symbolizes hardiness, valor, and bravery. It was also the color of the Grand Union, America's first unofficial flag."

Well, which is it? Is red good or bad? It seems like you are willing to change your symbolism to suit whatever you feel like.
Just admit it, your theory about colors is bunk.
 
Doug Bee said:
IA will not strike. A deal is all but done.

But I’m not so sure about the teamsters.

They do have an appetite to strike.
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IATSE did ok with the raises and increase in benefits. AMPTP was clearly in a mood to settle quickly and caved in it seems from the outside appearances.

"Wage minimums will increase 7% in year one of the Agreement, effective August
1, 2024, 4% in year two, effective August 1, 2025, and 3.5% in year three,
effective August 1, 2026"
 
Now guys, insults? It was fun watching two diverse brains in action. But methinks it has gone far enough with the insults (from both sides).

How about one wrap-it-up post from each of you and then let's get back to the IATSE agreement.
 
Paul F said:
Now guys, insults? It was fun watching two diverse brains in action. But methinks it has gone far enough with the insults (from both sides).

How about one wrap-it-up post from each of you and then let's get back to the IATSE agreement.
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I agree. I have nothing to say that I haven't already said. Happy to shake hands and go back to my corner.
But if Abe wants to reply to my last couple of posts so I don't get the last word, that is fine by me.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Yes, that is correct. The two things are not mutually exclusive. In other words, both things can be true at the same time.
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I think you're moving the goalposts. I think if you thought the colors were there to represent two opposing teams then you would have said so in the first place. Regardless, team colors are chosen for symbolic reasons so your analogy only reinforces my point.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Wait a second. You're so full of crap you can't even keep your symbolism straight.

First you told us . . .
"Take a movie like Star Wars. You've got the red and blue crossed lightsabers where the blue represents good and the red evil."

Then you told us . . .
"Red is the color of blood. In other words, red is the color of death."

And now you tell us . . .
"Red symbolizes hardiness, valor, and bravery. It was also the color of the Grand Union, America's first unofficial flag."

Well, which is it? Is red good or bad? It seems like you are willing to change your symbolism to suit whatever you feel like.
Just admit it, your theory about colors is bunk.
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This isn't complicated, Doug. I believe that, in Star Wars, red represents evil because it is the color of blood.

There is no universal code of color symbolism. In China, red is the color of joy and good fortune. That's very well-established. But we in the West don't share that association.

Some teams use red jerseys because it symbolizes aggression.

While cool colors like green and blue are generally considered peaceful and calming, the color red is considered the warmest and most contradictory of the colors. In fact, this fiery hue has more opposing emotional associations than any other color: Red is linked to passion and love as well as power and anger.
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www.verywellmind.com

How Does the Color Red Impact Your Mood and Behavior?

The color red is associated with excitement and energy, as well as danger and warning. Learn more about red color psychology and its relation to mood and behavior.
www.verywellmind.com www.verywellmind.com

In the military, red also signifies being wounded, as in the red badge of courage. That's probably the link to hardiness, valor, and bravery referenced by the stars and stripes.

No matter how you feel about it, people choose these colors for symbolic reasons that are meaningful to them. I mean, most of what I'm bringing up is other people saying "these are the symbolic reasons we chose these colors." The only inference I'm making is in Star Wars, where it's clearly also the case.
 
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Paul F said:
IATSE did ok with the raises and increase in benefits. AMPTP was clearly in a mood to settle quickly and caved in it seems from the outside appearances.

"Wage minimums will increase 7% in year one of the Agreement, effective August
1, 2024, 4% in year two, effective August 1, 2025, and 3.5% in year three,
effective August 1, 2026"
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I mean, I'm glad they caved. But that doesn't seem like a great signal for the health of the industry. Not that anyone thought they were in great shape.
 
Total shoot days in Q1-2024 were less than half of the pre-pandemic level. That's a lot of pain in Los Angeles. An over-50% reduction for any business is unheard of.
 
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