IATSE - 10 Days To Go

[ahalpert]

And so what have the two of you learned from this discussion?

I've learned that modes of interpretation and specific observations that I thought were universally accepted are not. But that doesn't change how I look at media, just how I look at the audience.

I was thinking about this discussion while watching The Beekeeper with Jason Statham. On the surface, it's an action film about avenging the vulnerable. It's funny because it's not a movie rife with symbolism or any other subtext. It's a very flimsy script. Except for the central metaphor about society as a hive and the vigilante as a beekeeper who protects it. They've hammered this metaphor home about a dozen different ways in the hour I've watched so far. I used to think that they had to make artlessly explicit explanations of metaphors so that children would understand them but now I realize they're also trying to reach symbolism-resistant adults.

Why is Statham an actual beekeeper as well as a retired agent who held the role called "beekeeper?" No idea. Except to drive the metaphor home further.

And perhaps so we get to see him work as a tradesman. The deeper levels in the film play out in associations of class and culture politics. Statham wears a trucker cap and drives a beat up pickup truck. The bad guys are young white office workers and a wealthy heir.

The woman he's avenging is African-American. Her daughter has a sizable and complex role as an FBI agent.

His secret agent successor who he defeats after they're sent to stop him is gender-fluid, blue-haired, and wears a pink trench coat and high heels.

So you get the benefit of diverse representation and yet the white guy always comes out on top. Everybody wins.

Statham himself, with his baldness and reluctant heroism, has always represented a kind of beleaguered responsibility to me. The tough guy with a heart of gold. I rewatch his filmography every few years.

Different stories communicate in different ways at different times. The construction of meaning is fluid and variable and you have to listen to how the story is trying to speak.

 

[Paul F]

I mean, I'm glad they caved. But that doesn't seem like a great signal for the health of the industry. Not that anyone thought they were in great shape.

Variety reported that the big issue on the negotiating table for IATSE was a $670 million shortfall for pensions and benefits. This is a problem we discussed previously about pensions, which I characterize as a Ponzi scheme. They depend on current contributors to fund future needs (just like Social Security does; the biggest Ponzi scheme of them all). So when the contributors decline, such has they have with the 50% drop in production in Los Angeles, the coffers are depleted faster than they fill up

 

[Paul F]

I've learned that modes of interpretation and specific observations that I thought were universally accepted are not.

Good. Then the discussion was worthwhile..... At least for you. Doug on the other hand, learned nothing, but continued on, in his hopes of teaching you something, which he did, but alas, not what he wanted to teach you.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Daaahhhhh! Stop right there Abe. That was a nice, succinct thought......,

Oh, go ahead. Get it off your chest.

But that doesn't change how I look at media, just how I look at the audience.

I was thinking about this discussion while watching The Beekeeper with Jason Statham. On the surface, it's an action film about avenging the vulnerable. It's funny because it's not a movie rife with symbolism or any other subtext. It's a very flimsy script. Except for the central metaphor about society as a hive and the vigilante as a beekeeper who protects it. They've hammered this metaphor home about a dozen different ways in the hour I've watched so far. I used to think that they had to make artlessly explicit explanations of metaphors so that children would understand them but now I realize they're also trying to reach symbolism-resistant adults.

Why is Statham an actual beekeeper as well as a retired agent who held the role called "beekeeper?" No idea. Except to drive the metaphor home further.

And perhaps so we get to see him work as a tradesman. The deeper levels in the film play out in associations of class and culture politics. Statham wears a trucker cap and drives a beat up pickup truck. The bad guys are young white office workers and a wealthy heir.

The woman he's avenging is African-American. Her daughter has a sizable and complex role as an FBI agent.

His secret agent successor who he defeats after they're sent to stop him is gender-fluid, blue-haired, and wears a pink trench coat and high heels.

So you get the benefit of diverse representation and yet the white guy always comes out on top. Everybody wins.

Statham himself, with his baldness and reluctant heroism, has always represented a kind of beleaguered responsibility to me. The tough guy with a heart of gold. I rewatch his filmography every few years.

Different stories communicate in different ways at different times. The construction of meaning is fluid and variable and you have to listen to how the story is trying to speak.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Variety reported that the big issue on the negotiating table for IATSE was a $670 million shortfall for pensions and benefits. This is a problem we discussed previously about pensions, which I characterize as a Ponzi scheme. They depend on current contributors to fund future needs (just like Social Security does; the biggest Ponzi scheme of them all). So when the contributors decline, such has they have with the 50% drop in production in Los Angeles, the coffers are depleted faster than they fill up

A good example of why you have to plan for your own retirement funds. Take the money someone was supposed to invest for you and do it yourself.

For 40 years I've wished I could have opted out of the self-employment tax. I can take care of myself and my family, thank you.
When I think of how much more money I'd have in the bank now if I'd been able to invest the hundreds of thousands of dollars I paid to the government (not talking about income tax) for a service I never wanted, it makes me weep into my pillow. Now, as I get closer to being able to collect a very tiny fraction of that money back, I'm going to take every penny I can get even though I won't really need it to live comfortably.

I highly recommend that people ignore whatever SS or pension they think they will get -- and plan for retirement yourself. IF that money is there later, then it will be icing on the cake. But make the cake yourself. (I learned about metaphors this week.)

 

[ahalpert]

(I learned about metaphors this week.)

That's debatable

Either way, I'm glad that someone got my cool hand luke reference and the moral of the story is that Paul should watch it

 

[Paul F]

When I think of how much more money I'd have in the bank now if I'd been able to invest the hundreds of thousands of dollars I paid to the government (not talking about income tax) for a service I never wanted, it makes me weep into my pillow.

Now, now Doug, think of all the people who got gubment jobs to run Social Security from that money you didn't get. Doesn't that make you feel better that you personally kept people employed in a nice cushy federal job? Think of how many people would be on the streets if we didn't have all those gubment jobs.

 

[ahalpert]

Now, now Doug, think of all the people who got gubment jobs to run Social Security from that money you didn't get. Doesn't that make you feel better that you personally kept people employed in a nice cushy federal job? Think of how many people would be on the streets if we didn't have all those gubment jobs.

First of all, I would have thought that Doug had incorporated and dodged most of that SE tax.

But if the value of his stocks and his Florida real estate crater, he'll still have defined-benefit SS.

It's a poverty-prevention program. It's more beneficial to lower-income people who were never able to achieve a high savings rate and who will see a greater proportional return on their taxes. That's why he doesn't like it but they do.

 

[Doug Jensen]

First of all, I would have thought that Doug had incorporated and dodged most of that SE tax.

But if the value of his stocks and his Florida real estate crater, he'll still have defined-benefit SS.

It's a poverty-prevention program. It's more beneficial to lower-income people who were never able to achieve a high savings rate and who will see a greater proportional return on their taxes. That's why he doesn't like it but they do.

I did have an LLC when I lived in Utah, mostly because I had employees and other complications. However I found the paperwork and reporting requirements were a huge hassle, and the actual benefits and tax avoidance aspects were not at as good as people think. When I sold that production company and moved to New England I chose to operate as a sole proprietor.

SS is fine if someone wants to voluntarily sign on to the program and make contributions. I just wanted to be given the choice to opt out if I didn't want to participate. I was not given that choice.

 

[Paul F]

I did some calculations about having the SS money invested yourself vs what the gubment pays out in benefits. I put the post in the Cafe section.

 

[ahalpert]

Out of curiosity, Doug, do you like North by Northwest or Psycho or 2001?

 

[Doug Jensen]

Out of curiosity, Doug, do you like North by Northwest or Psycho or 2001?

All three are 5-star movies in my book.

 

[ahalpert]

All three are 5-star movies in my book.

They also have great examples of symbolism, such as the train going into a tunnel (North by Northwest), the many appearances of and references to various birds (Psycho) and the match cut from bone to space missile.

 

[CharlesPapert]

For those who had any interest in the original subject matter, the ballots for ratification have been mailed to IA members. Meanwhile, rattlings on the Teamster side show more division, but of course all information being pushed out there is intended to influence the other party so I would be hesitant to assume this will lead to a strike. https://variety.com/2024/biz/news/t...SBEX5LEh-2MLu3ruKU_aem_-IYAeJYxDVC1ueg5zjbGXA

 

[Doug Jensen]

They also have great examples of symbolism, such as the train going into a tunnel (North by Northwest), the many appearances of and references to various birds (Psycho) and the match cut from bone to space missile.

Uh, I'm not sure what your point it is. Seems like you're implying I shouldn't like those movies because you have detected symbolism in them. That is quite a jump in logic, my friend. Look, I already said back on July 7th that I'd be happy to end the debate about symbolism by letting you have the last word. Which you did. Now you want to dredge it up again like some kind of troll. It is a waste of my time to continue this conversation further.

If finding symbolism in movies enhances your enjoyment of the film or makes you feel better about how insightful you are, go right ahead. It doesn't change my opinion of those films one way or the other. Carry on.

 

[ahalpert]

Uh, I'm not sure what your point it is. Seems like you're implying I shouldn't like those movies because you have detected symbolism in them. That is quite a jump in logic, my friend. Look, I already said back on July 7th that I'd be happy to end the debate about symbolism by letting you have the last word. Which you did. Now you want to dredge it up again like some kind of troll. It is a waste of my time to continue this conversation further.

If finding symbolism in movies enhances your enjoyment of the film or makes you feel better about how insightful you are, go right ahead. It doesn't change my opinion of those films one way or the other. Carry o

You're not obligated to respond. But my question for you is if you don't find something to appreciate about the use of symbolism in those films and therefore there are, at least, exceptions to your dislike of symbolism. Or if you disagree that symbolism is being used or if you like the films in spite of the symbolism.

I don't feel pressure to curtail a debate about film on a film forum. If people want to censor politics or other extraneous subjects, then fine.

In particular I'd say that the match cut in 2001 cannot be denied. There's more going on there than the literal events depicted. The cut itself symbolizes the evolution of technology (particularly weaponry), drawing a straight line from the first weapon to the most recent and most powerful weapon and therefore also crediting the latter to the alien influence in the story.

 

[Paul F]

For those who had any interest in the original subject matter, the ballots for ratification have been mailed to IA members. Meanwhile, rattlings on the Teamster side show more division, but of course all information being pushed out there is intended to influence the other party so I would be hesitant to assume this will lead to a strike. https://variety.com/2024/biz/news/t...SBEX5LEh-2MLu3ruKU_aem_-IYAeJYxDVC1ueg5zjbGXA

Agreed. With people out of work and limited productions, a strike isn't a big threat at this point. It would have been useful during the last contract negotiations.