I wonder what SONY is thinking about now...

10s said:
Sony is having a tough time, they recently moved headquarters from Japan to New York. When Japanses owners send their baby overseas...something is really wrong. I hope Sony gets it together quick, we need them.
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Right, it is unfortunate though for Nobuyuki Idei, they replaced him just one year before retirement, that sucks. But, with Sir Howard Stringer now in command, Sony and their enthusiasts are likely to see new advances that should have been made years ago. As the other posts focusing on sales statistics reflect, Sony has been very conservative at a time when everyone else has become very aggressive.
But, Sony is not a "loser". They may have lagged a couple of laps behind, but the race is far from over, and they have a new runner on the track (Stringer), who is known for his involvement in advancing high definition technology. Sony will have something of their own to compete with the HVX soon, you can count on that. As to whether or not it's better...? We'll see...
 
Sony counts because they're the 800 pound gorilla. Put their resources to work (properly) and you'll be really happy. We need many strong competitors, this is what creates progress. The problem has been that they have lost steam, someone neesd to leave the camera divison and new blood interested in indie film making needs to step in. Sony launched the DV prosumer revolution with the VX1000. They need to do a few more VX1000s so Panasonic will do a few more DVXs...and our smiling faces will get even bigger.
 
Since Sony's founder Akio Morita died in the late 1990s, the company has been left with a huge capital to invest but a complete lack of identity and innovation. Sony is no longer the best in anything at the consumer lever. Their TV sets were the best up until the 1990s, but now most brands produce equal or great quality. Their computer monitors have a slightly better design, but the specs are not great and the price is some 40% higher than competition. Their laptops are fine, and there I have to say their screen have great unmatched quality. But the laptop itlself, while fine for the PC world, cannot compete with Apple Powerbooks. Their consumer camcorders are laughable, and a real shame when I think of their 1990's models that made history. Their FX1 is fine for many things but has focusing problems, low MPEG2 bandwidth rare problems, and is interlaced. Sony has lost the capacity to produce progressive scan chips (I'm not talking about $50000 cameras, at that price even the sandwitch place down the street could produce a progressive scan chip). They never mastered the technology anyway, and the VX2000 was doing a great job but al low frame rates (12.5 PAL and 15 NTSC). Their design department is very good, but that's abuot it, so they could join Bang & Olufsen on a specific share of market. Of course they have the japanese consumers who are not the best informed you'll find. They will all use interlaced, no matter what the quality is. They weren't even using internet a few years ago, and I have yet to see a nice japanese internet site, or at least a useful one at the international level.
 
And I doubt japanese has many indie film makers. They are very different in that respect from Europeans and Americans. I don't think they will ever care about progressive scan cameras.
 
i don´t know guys. the DVX is out for what? 2,5 years now?
i have been at 16 sportsevents this year (snowboard and skiing) and i saw another DVX at 2 of them, but i saw the the SONY FX1 at 8 of them. additionally i brought my BetacamSP SONY to all of them and there were more PD150s, VX2100s and BetaSPs. All SONYs. then there was at least 1 Canon (XM1, XL2 etc) at each event.
IMO SONY is doing nothing wrong marketingwise as long as they sell. they sure lose a bit in the indiemarket, but come on.....people here on this site are not exactly the majority in buyers.
but there is one thing i do not like about SONYs HDV approach: i met a guy (american) who had the FX1 and i explained him the problems he would get editing and distributing (or actually that he wont be able to as HDV). he had NO IDEA. he got he cam sold and was told to shoot. he already had 30 tapes from a roadtrip through europe and didn´t know he would have to downconvert to SD to sell his DVD anyway. SONY brought this FX1 without any accompanying tools to help getting it out. i guess the PAnasonic guys learn from this and bring P2 readers etc immediately with the cam.
what is HDV good for if you have no deck yet (or have to buy one for 5000)?

SONY has XDCAM and it is an awesome cam. the menu is crazy complicated (80 pages via a viewfinder is ridiculous), but man that cam rocks with its features (in 50i).

what i wanted to say was: SONY sells. they give a little market share to Panasonic and even JVC and IF it starts hurting them they will buy the technology from one of them (japanese patents last shorter than with us or the US). 25p (or 24p) are great, but the public looks more into content (and rightfully so) than this technical detail. they watch reality shows in interlaced rather than a short in progressivemode. at least that´s what they get to see from the networks....
 
filmfan222, your perspective is fascinating, and makes me feel really old.

For many years, Sony was "it" -- nobody cared what anyone else did, we only cared what Sony did. Sony *owned* the broadcast market. Panasonic, JVC, etc., they were fringe players compared to the all-powerful, all-dominant Sony. And, truthfully, the VX1000 and VX2000/PD150 were *killer* products for their time.

But I feel they've really lost touch with what today's consumer wants. And now, at 19, you've never known the Sony we knew -- you only know what you see now, where they push flop after flop like proprietary MP3 players that don't play MP3's, and MicroMV, and such. And you haven't suffered with the Panasonic we knew, the one that produced the AG-EZ1 and other such cameras that nobody ever cared about. The Panasonic you know is the one that is tearing up the sales charts, making SDXes and DVXes and HVXes.

In the past, Sony has been responsible for some amazing products. I do hope they return. The fact that they've hired an American to head 'em up is an amazing acknowledgement for a Japanese megacorporation, and perhaps a very good sign for consumers.
 
Japanese automakers are overtaking truck sales because they listen to their customers. Think about it, how many companies are doing this anymore? Customer service is key.

Rich Lee said:
the sony cooperation.
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Good one, Rich.
 
I might have never known the Sony that you guys knew, but I still dont understand in following brands. In a culture so consumed by brand loyalty (we are essentially trained to defend what we buy, and if you dont believe me, try to tell a car owner its a piece of crap) maybe everyone has just been so caught up in Sony's "quality" for so long they are willing to defend it a little more.

I remember though in middle school watching docs on George Lucas and why he created ILM and pushed for digital movie production. Its not because of the tools, its because of the story he wanted to tell. For me its the same thing. I dont care about Apple, Panny, or whoever. I run a PC with 3ds max because that is what I know how to use, and with it can do what my imagination tells it to. I dont need to switch to maya on an apple like all these people keep yelling me to do. I dont care about the specs, just the output. With cameras it is no different. I have always felt a shortcoming between my brain and my capture device. The fact thats its a panasonic never crossed my mind. Its about what the camera can allow me to do.

alot people my age are just fed up with brands. Phil Knight of Nike can eat it. Ive been wearing a pair of wal mart sneakers and they are the best things I ever owned. my DVX100 is the same way.

As far as hoping that Sony returns to greatness. Ive never seen that greatness. They could fall off the face of the earth and I wouldnt care. Just like when IBM sold their PC business. It was such little news!?!?

This camera is gonna cost me my car, my computer, my savings and probably my girlfriend if I dont stop talking about it :-P But hey, its a camera, unlike any other before, that doesnt leave me looking at adaptors, or add ons, or workarounds. This thing just seems like a beast to build around.
 
Well,
has anybody seen it yet? No? Waiting for tomorrow morning like on christmas eve? OK, while your waiting I edit my HDV-Tapes to present the first little advert from a smartcard based hd-player.
Guys, there has not even been an oficial price to order the thing in advance. So what should Sony think? "We are waiting, Pani, we are still waiting..."

Sorry, but it's only a few hours, so... ;-)
 
ya dude im sitting here at our giant math lab at school just surfing the internet until i hear some news.

I remember when I got my first AG-456 SVHS camcorder. what a piece, but man, it felt like Panavision Millenium.
 
I'm not even sitting here for news. As I am working in Europe I have about one year before Panasonic is going to output a camera that I can use with our 25 Frames System. Plenty of time to see you test what is coming up tomorrow.

Have a great time.
 
Philip,
camera to be available in Europe "by the end of this year". That is some time in early December. You better hurry up and spare some money for your new panny cam, hehe!
 
If this thread were started over at dv.com, anyone criticizing Sony would get it. For some reason, Sony has a Jihad-like following that really allows them to get mileage out of their name. I've even seen people argue AGAINST the need for progressive because, well, certain Sony cams don't have em. As for 24p, die hard Sony fans hate 24p to the point of arguing that movies shouldn't even be shot in 24p!!! Maybe this is why Sony is so slow to adept, because they're kind of spoiled by their brand name.
 
Over the past 25 years or so, I've bought a number of different Sony products from early cordless phones to my current DVD burner. I've always been very happy about those purchases and not one of them ever needed to be sent back for repairs.

Now, if I put my filmmaking cap on, it's obvious I won't be a Sony customer at any point in the foreseeable future, because they just don't make the products I need.

Let's be realistic, however : no matter how fun, exciting, enriching, knowledgeable and friendly our great little indie filmmaking community may be, it is still just that : a great little community.

Thanks to manufacturers such as Panasonic, it has grown tremendously over the past couple of years, but when a market segment quadruples its size from 0.1 to 0.4 percent, it still remains nothing but a very specialized niche market. And if Sony's global market share gets eroded by Korean competitors, or even by Panasonic, let's ask ourselves the question With what products have those competitors been eroding Sony's market share ? The answer is : with cheap to mid-range classical interlaced video cameras.

Go to Disneyland or, for that matter, just walk into your nearest international airport lounge, and look at the kind of camcorders the immense majority of people are lugging around. It's a sobering sight.
 
Amazing

Amazing

PKraft said:
Philip,
camera to be available in Europe "by the end of this year". That is some time in early December. You better hurry up and spare some money for your new panny cam, hehe!
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How People get around here ;-)

Still, we'll see and remember the fuzz about the DVX100E and if the HVX200E is out, we all go http://www.weebls-stuff.com/data/toons/ahhhhhhh.swf because we TV-based people find out that all that 1080p25 will get interlaced - with or without shoes.
Can't wait to see those prizes of those 2GB Cards...
 
I'm hooked on Panasonic, I firmly believe that 720p / 1080p are the best formats for single camera film, documentary and multi-camera sitcom acquisition. To say Sony is lost and will have no future market share is a little off the mark. Years ago, Sony was coupled with Panavision to create the venerable CineAlta system which is regarded as a benchmark system for digital cinema.

I think they squarely miscalculated the prosumer / independent cinema market. Panasonic has it right, and anyone (even Sony die-hards) who takes a look at even the EDTV images of 480p can't argue the merits of interlacing. Frame rate is another issue - it doesn't necessarily make sense to shoot football or news in 24 frames.

e
 
Well first of all. Prosumer cam isn´t the only thing Sony has to think about. We are just a small piece of the action. But one thing for sure, we are an important piece.

If we walk around with a certain camcorder that look impressive. Ordinary consumer will se that. And of course that will affect them. If that guy who knows so much about camcorders have that brand maybe i should buy that brand to. That I go around and shooting with the DVX hasn´t hurt panasonic, if everybody knows what i mean.

And those of us that work in studios etc. are more favorable to panasonic after our nice experience with both the company and the DVX. Im pushing my boss the invest in new cams, and it aint the Z1 im pushing him to buy...

Third. If Sony isn´t capable of listening to us in the prosumer market, who says they gonna be better in the consumer market?
 
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