C500: I went ahead and did a C500 Fan Noise Quick Video Test - See Vimeo link & talk?

Kinok said:
Awesome test again, Chris. The lav does reduce the internal fan noise to a more acceptable level, but is no match for your ME-66's sound quality. I can't hear the external fans at all, even though you said they were rated at 35 dB. Perhaps running them at 9V as opposed to 12V makes them much quieter (as the RPM is lower).

Great work and thanks very much!

See Norbro, C-Mac is now one more to add to your "handful of C500 users in the world." I mean, in the whole wide world, there are only 5 people plus Chris! That's an exclusive club.
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Thank you Kinok. Happy to contribute! The cool thing is the external system is non destructive to the camera and can be removed in under a minute. You are correct the 9v battery slows the RPM and thus brings down the noise level. It's very quiet.

I know someone who bought one new... so I think there are 7 of us now, LOL

Best Regards,

Chris
 
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I still hear the fan but I suppose it can be notched out if it's not in the voice spectrum.

As to Eric's point, yes we've been doing much more wide for doc interviews as is the trending look, so by me having black, white and tan lavs, I pin them on and ask the client if they object, and they usually don't because it's camouflaged. I love the Schoeps but my main beef is that we end up waiting for Piper Cubs that are 5 miles away, that's how damn sensitive they are. But wow, such a bokeh of audio. I toyed with buying Sankens but I lose a lot of mics from the subjects, often VIPs, celebs, reporters, etc. who yank on the head as soon as the interview is over, even though we told them not to.

I also believe in only hard wiring interviews for many reasons, especially that with radio mics you're adding in variables that can bite you on the butt, such as the transmitter batts dying, frequency interference that was not there before you started, etc. Also, when it's a lengthy, (non-corporate) emotional interview I insist that the soundman go AC power. Sometimes they push back, but I insist, especially if I don't know them. The reason is, not only does it look bad that we had to stop the interview for batteries but most importantly, he made me look bad to the client for having hired him, and my relationship with the client is paramount. The director, who is usually the client, gets flummoxed that the train of thought, the emotion, has fizzled and escaped and they are right, all cuz the audio guy wanted to go wireless and non-AC.

For some reason, I suppose because I'm mainly a doc shootist, I get tear jerkers where you in no way you want to stop. I used to shoot the Steven Spielberg's Holocaust documentaries called Shoah, the first year we had soundmen and that, plus Dr. Phil specials and cop shows with surviving relatives, where everyone starts crying after ten minutes, we must be hard wired, plus the mixer is on AC power, because if I have to stop an interview because of the soundman- he's toast. I always tell them that next time, "The police will never find your body." and they believe me...

I've been using the Osmo an awful lot for b-roll and although I bought the $10 mic for it, I never intended to use its audio because of its fan noise. But lately I had a client who saw me doing b-roll and he dragged me by my shirt to get quick bites of kids. They were soft spoken and even though I was not wearing headphones I knew the fan would ruin the track. There is a way to disable it but I worried I would overheat it and then we would have a 20 minute cooling period shut down. So, I shoved the Osmo in their little kid faces, which doesn't fluster kids because it looks like a toy, and told them to SPEAK UP and say it again. In this way they swamped the fan noise. Oh well, music saves everything.

But as to the C500 fan and booming, (let alone my opinion of the ME66, which is based on experience having owned it's predesessor), when I enter the location and I see wood or tile, I instinctively go into lav mode with the boom as a back up, and as Puredrifting (what's your real name again?) said, some editors like to blend them. Even if I owned a Schoeps, a hard floor is a hard floor.

I don't know if any of you have done this, but when I need to do Poor Man's narration on location, if it's a good size house or McMansion, I literally will do it in the master bedroom's closet! I have a Shure hand held and a Popper Stopper. If I was using a C500 I'd have it outside the door. Hopefully we'd be done before her husband gets home...

Game on in a few minutes so must find a sports bar quick.

See ya,

Ned
 
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For me, it's always either Canon or Sony or Blackmagic...unless the other guys release something AMAZING or I decide to invest in the RED ecosystem (doubt it)...so I might be back!

(#8 pending...lol)
 
ollywood88 said:
Thanks Paul, How come you went with the Shogun Flame? Does the normal shogun do the 4k pro res up to 30p? Also how is it with the 2k I want to shoot mainly 2k.

Do you find it quite noisy too? [The Fan] I can't imagine it being too bad

Thanks
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Price and need, particularly as I use and abuse 4k to the max from an edit perspective.

I need 4k at 4:2:2 10 bit Pro Res at 25fps, at the lowest, possible cost. A used C500 with only 1 hour on the clock is perfect, especially as I have a few spare batteries.

Shogun because of price and need. I have a couple of cards and batteries kicking around which results in a significant saving over the Q7+ and I just don't need 60p for the next couple of projects. If anything, the time-lapse functionality is more useful for what I have coming up. Everything finishes next May and if I need a bit of slo-mo, then I'll trade in the recorder for a Q7+ which has superior functionality.

I was vaguely aware of a noisy fan issue but we're shooting takes of under 10 minutes so wasn't massively concerned. However, the fan solution is a huge bonus as it is really cheap, easy to make although will take a few minutes to rig. To give you an idea, in a very quiet room within 7 feet, you're going to hear it but with a £50 fan solution, I'm really happy. That's perfect and removes the issue and is a longer-term solution.
 
Very happy monkey here! I got my external fan from AbleCine, we did a quick 20 minuet test at Able and zero problems with the unit attached, and the internal fan never triggered :) I'm pretty busy for the next two days, but come the weekend I'll post pictures of the slimline fan system, it is a lovely piece of kit, and that it really does prevent that noisy fan from turning on is music to my ears. So more pics and tests to come, I can't tell you how happy I am now that I can keep the C500! The external fan is uber quite :) I will say the price of the unit was not cheap, just over $500! but well worth it, you will see from the pictures I post over the weekend. I think you could rig your own system for a lot cheaper, with lots of different ways to power the external fan. A big shout out to Juliet McNally, at Able for getting all the parts from NYC, and assembling my fan unit here in LA.
 
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Okay, three people now have said quite...the word is QUIET! haha

Happy for you, man! Glad it worked out.
 
Thank's for that second test C-Mac, your system works great! I remember someone asking which fan was which on the C500, the output (vent) fan is the upper fan, and the lower fan is the intake (cooling) fan.
 
B.Berry said:
Very happy monkey here! I got my external fan from AbleCine, we did a quick 20 minuet test at Able and zero problems with the unit attached, and the internal fan never triggered :) I'm pretty busy for the next two days, but come the weekend I'll post pictures of the slimline fan system, it is a lovely piece of kit, and that it really does prevent that noisy fan from turning on is music to my ears. So more pics and tests to come, I can't tell you how happy I am now that I can keep the C500! The external fan is uber quite :) I will say the price of the unit was not cheap, just over $500! but well worth it, you will see from the pictures I post over the weekend. I think you could rig your own system for a lot cheaper, with lots of different ways to power the external fan. A big shout out to Juliet McNally, at Able for getting all the parts from NYC, and assembling my fan unit here in LA.
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I would mention that B.Berry got the last one at AbelCine.

If you have a drill with metal bits, a jigsaw with lubricating grease and a blade for cutting "thin metal", gloves, eye protection, electrical tape, and you are handy, you make on of these for around $50.

I also needed:

Card Stock paper
Scissors
22 gauge steel sheet metal - (I bought 12 x 18 inch size as that's all my Home Depot had in stock) - $12
2 - quiet 35mm x 35mm x 10mm fans - $20 for both. I bought these:
https://www.amazon.com/Evercool-Eve...id=1477567459&sr=8-3&keywords=35mm+x+10mm+fan
1 - 6 AA battery power caddy that runs the batteries in parallel equalling 9 volts (You can also use 1 - 9v battery, but it will have a shorter life than 6 AA batteries, my tests showed that 1 quality 9v ran both fans for 1hr 40 mins without running out.)

Cutting Sheet Metal this thin and small is a bit dangerous(you should use gloves and eye protection), so if you are not comfortable with this don't do it or ask someone who knows how to use a jigsaw properly.

I wish I had a grinder as I would grind the rough edges a bit. I used my hand files, but it's not the same. I wrapped my unit in rubber tape to help prevent scratches on the camera body... I may pick up a grinder and grind and paint the metal part.


I used card stock, traced the original plastic cover for the SDI Ports, then cut down until I felt it fit properly. It was a hold on the camera, trim, hold on the camera trim... I did put the center hold in it early and kept that as a guide.

I carefully placed the fans and traced a guide. You only need the metal piece to attach 2 screws on each fan, see the image in the video. It's a pretty small piece of metal.

Once I had cut and drilled the holes, I used a rubber hammer, pliers, and needle noise pliers to bend and form the metal to the camera.

I would estimate it took me an hour and a half to fabricate the part.

I would also note that I was able to use a wall putty like tape and electrical tape to connect these for the test... it's not as solid if you are running and gunning, but you could test it and that might be okay for some people. It's also very easy. Mine stayed on the camera this way for 2 days while I did my initial test. I had to remove it, it did not start falling off.

I apologize for my stream of conscious writing! If you have any questions, I can try to answer them.

Best Regards,

Chris
 
B.Berry said:
Thank's for that second test C-Mac, your system works great! I remember someone asking which fan was which on the C500, the output (vent) fan is the upper fan, and the lower fan is the intake (cooling) fan.
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Sure thing B.Berry. Glad to hear your unit is looking good!

Best Regards,

Chris
 
B.Berry said:
Very happy monkey here! I got my external fan from AbleCine, we did a quick 20 minuet test at Able and zero problems with the unit attached, and the internal fan never triggered :) I'm pretty busy for the next two days, but come the weekend I'll post pictures of the slimline fan system, it is a lovely piece of kit, and that it really does prevent that noisy fan from turning on is music to my ears. So more pics and tests to come, I can't tell you how happy I am now that I can keep the C500! The external fan is uber quite :) I will say the price of the unit was not cheap, just over $500! but well worth it, you will see from the pictures I post over the weekend. I think you could rig your own system for a lot cheaper, with lots of different ways to power the external fan. A big shout out to Juliet McNally, at Able for getting all the parts from NYC, and assembling my fan unit here in LA.
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You got the last one... :( Juliet turned me down.

Note to self: Need to work on the charm...
 
If we had a few people that wanted these and the price was right, I'd buy better tools and fabricate a few. They may not be as clean as the AbelCine product was, but they would work as needed.

Best Regards,

Chris
 
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Sure, I want one made of carbon fiber with batteries attached underneath, battery levels, and a variable fan speed dial. It should be totally sleek and have no visible wires and no tape. And I'd like it in matte black if you don't mind!
 
Kinok said:
Sure, I want one made of carbon fiber with batteries attached underneath, battery levels, and a variable fan speed dial. It should be totally sleek and have no visible wires and no tape. And I'd like it in matte black if you don't mind!
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LOL, the right price will be pretty expensive for you... maybe I should retract my offer, LOL It seamed like a good idea when I wrote it. LOL
 
If AbelCine charged B.Berry $500 for a couple of fans and a black panel, that's the way I would imagine them on the camera. His camera should look like one of those Alienware PC gaming rigs, otherwise it's just not worth it.
 
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Kinok said:
If AbelCine charged B.Berry $500 for a couple of souped-up fans and a black panel, that's the way I would imagine them on the camera. His camera should look like one of those Alienware gaming rigs, otherwise it's just not worth it.
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It's not much different than mine, I've seen it. Mine is rougher edged, but if I picked up a more proper cutter it should be closer to what theirs looked like. I am not going to use a jigsaw again.

Best Regards,

Chris
 
Not to restate what I had stated again and again ... but I really think it will help some C500 owners. Half-way between paying $500 to Abel Cine (not that there's anything wrong with it!) or DIY is to go to an independent (high end) car audio outlet that does custom jobs and have an experienced installer do it. A typical shop will have all the metal cutting and polishing tools, etc. In fact, a lot of powerful high end amps can run very hot and often need to be cooled down with/by these same external fans.

The higher than Abel Cine option would probably find a pro grip who does this for a living for a major studio.
 
Paul Walker said:
How much?
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I'd have the start up expenses of getting a better work bench, a vice, a grinder, a cutter (likely a machine metal sheer and creating a mount for that metal sheer to be mounted upside down on the vice for proper cutting)... after the initial batch the price would begin to drop.

So you would get, the metal mount with 2 - fans attached, the mount would be painted black, wired for 1 - 9v battery or 1 - 9v - 6 AA battery tray (whatever is preferred for the end user), and a toggle switch for on off. Pretty basic, but it will work. I would not provide a canon screw... you would just have to use the one that already attaches the SDI cover. Canon likely charges $250 for that screw, LOL, Just Kidding!

There would also be S&H. I have had a merchant credit card account since 2001 so I could accept credit cards.

I would note that I tried to buy one from AbelCine and would have paid the $500, but they were sold out and told me they would not be making more units.

I would be willing to do:

6 @ $2400 (400 per)
10 @ $3000 (300 per)
15 @ $4000 (267 per)
20 @ $5000 (250 per)

Best Regards,

Chris
 
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