I think I broke my XL2 by shooting Laser beam footage..Help! Is my XL2 imaging ruined

I know what you mean Isaac, you sometimes wonder whether it is worth your time. Personally I do it on principle and hatred of poor customer service rather than for money. I think that companies get away with too much because people don't complain enough. I am not into the sue culture at all, but I strive to produce quality products and services and I think everyone else should too.

If it does mention it in the manual it is definitely worth a good try IMO... it will be an expensive repair otherwise! Personally I wouldn't mention the laser. Don't lie, but just don't mention it. Say the camera has developed an unknown fault and needs to be repaired!
 
fishquail said:
Well, I just checked the Manuel, there are a lot of safty instructions - the basic, water, moisture, dust, magnetic fields, lightning and so on are noted. But there is no warning about bright lights, or specificly laser light or any light being able to damage the camera.
I would think they would at least say something about sunlight...

As far as legal advice, I would take that into consideration...



This sounds like I might be able to claim such "inadiqwite instructions" were not provided but I'm not exactly a law student. Sure I can list some of the reasons I have for thinking canon should pay for the problem, but I have no idea how to threaten them with "the law" if it must come to that...

Does anyone really think I have a case here? I mean, if you were the jurry what would you say? :undecided

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I also read the Warently card further--- its very fishy where it says:

"The Limited Warenty covers all defects encounterd in normal use of the equpment and does not apply in the following cases:
A) Damage due to abuse, mishandeling, accident, improper maintence, failure to follow operating instructions-
B)If the equipment is dameaged due to leaking batteries, sand, or water damage.
C) If defects or damage are caused by service by someone unautherised to provide service.
D)If the eqwipment is used for commercial or industrial use.


Seems to me that covers just about anything unless something inside the camera breaks on its own....
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Does the manual warn about putting peanut butter in the tape path? Probably not, but we know we should not do it. Pointing a light sensitive image capture device at a light strong enough to burn blemishes off of human skin, uhmmm, does that really sound like the companies fault?
 
Rosestar said:
Does the manual warn about putting peanut butter in the tape path? Probably not, but we know we should not do it. Pointing a light sensitive image capture device at a light strong enough to burn blemishes off of human skin, uhmmm, does that really sound like the companies fault?
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Hmm... making movies is what a camera is all about. Until now I didn't know that lasers was dangerous to cameras. Some lasers (like on disco) you can look at. Peanut butter has nothing to do with a camera except that I can film it. And that is pretty safe... unless the peanut butter is in the hand of a child...
 
thisiswells said:
You mean I can't put this camera in a fridge to cool it off after a hot day in the sun!? MADNESS.
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I figure that you are joking... but if you check out the manual I bet there is something about storage temperatures and operating temperatures. Since a fridge is about 6-8 degrees it isn't that cold. I have computer stuff that operates at 0 degree celcius, the customer always have 2 degrees.
 
Just checked my DVX manual and on page 456, paragraph 4, subsection C, it states, "Don't point your camera at frickin laser beams." :shocked:
 
frla said:
Hmm... making movies is what a camera is all about. Until now I didn't know that lasers was dangerous to cameras. Some lasers (like on disco) you can look at. Peanut butter has nothing to do with a camera except that I can film it. And that is pretty safe... unless the peanut butter is in the hand of a child...
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Yes, some lasers are safe, for human eyes, like the disco stage lasers (I would not look directly at them though). However, to go into a situation where the light source is so dangerous that the participants have to wear eye protection should have alerted the cameraman that, at the very least, I need to research the dangers this may cause to my light sensitive image capture device, located at the end of a big, light focusing lens. At the very least. Now to have f*cked up the camera and try to scam the company, I just think is wrong. What goes around comes around.
 
Rosestar said:
Yes, some lasers are safe, for human eyes, like the disco stage lasers (I would not look directly at them though). However, to go into a situation where the light source is so dangerous that the participants have to wear eye protection should have alerted the cameraman that, at the very least, I need to research the dangers this may cause to my light sensitive image capture device, located at the end of a big, light focusing lens. At the very least. Now to have f*cked up the camera and try to scam the company, I just think is wrong. What goes around comes around.
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You are totally right. I missed the part with eye production. It makes the question a little more grey area. Alternatively he might want to check out his insurance. An insurance sometimes cover when you make stupid mistakes.
 
Rosestar said:
... at the very least, I need to research the dangers this may cause to my light sensitive image capture device, located at the end of a big, light focusing lens.
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A lot of people don't understand the damage lasers can do! That is why every single laser product (at least in the UK) carries a warning sign. I can think of many situations when you may need to video bright lights and lasers. Therefore if the instruction manual for the XL2 does not mention the danger of doing so, how are you supposed to know?

I think it is pretty bad of Canon to only guarantee their CCDs for 6 months, and doubt it is even legal. I am not up for screwing over small, honest and hard-working people, but large multi-national are different! Their sole aim is to make as much money as possible. I see no reason not to get a good deal from them!? If you can legally claim this repair through Canon, do it! They will not even notice that amount of money. They rip you off for parts anyway!
 
During a previous lifetime, I was News Operations Manager at the NBC station in Pittsburgh and dealt with equipment problems on a regular basis. One of our photographers was shooting an arc welder with one of our Sony BVP-300a video cameras. The intense light from the arc welder burned the three Plumbicon tubes and they had to be replaced. The tubes cost $2,500 --- each.

Sometimes you could remove the lens, cap the camera and --- I'm not making this up --- stick it into the freezer overnight. For some reason, this could heal the burns and allow you to return the camera to service. Another technique was to mount the camera on a tripod and aim it at a brightly-lit white card or board for several hours to essentially burn the rest of the light-sensitive pickup area down to the level of the burn. While this worked, it drastically shortened the life of the tubes.

Modern CCD cameras are much less susceptible to burns like this, but --- as we've learned --- pointing them into a laser beam will exceed the limits of whatever abuse the CCDs can absorb.

A good rule of thumb is: if it's dangerous to look at some light source with the naked eye, don't point your camera at it, or do so very carefully while being aware of the risks.

The damage to the Canon XL-2 was not the fault of Canon. Chalk it up to end-user error and pay the bill.
 
mmm said:
A lot of people don't understand the damage lasers can do! That is why every single laser product (at least in the UK) carries a warning sign. I can think of many situations when you may need to video bright lights and lasers. Therefore if the instruction manual for the XL2 does not mention the danger of doing so, how are you supposed to know?
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I thought the warning signs on the lasers would be a good indication!
 
I personally wouldn't point my camera at a laser, but I just think it could be a valid claim.

If it was me, I would certainly have a go at getting the repair done for free and not feel in the slightest bit guilty. But that is only my point of view, I can see why you guys disagree.

The lesson to learn is, look after your camera. Prevention is better than a any cure.
 
I too would think it might be a valid claim in this day and age if SUEING everyone's ass.

Would I do it? Hell no. If you can't 'Look' at it.....

Hellloo?
 
One thing you need to consider is that all sensors have different sensitivity to different visible wavelengths, even our eyes. For instance, those ubiquitous laser pointers are often green, since our eyes are more sensitive to green and you can see the whole beam at lower power. Red, on the other hand is harder to see which explains the reason for using them in astronomy, so the light doesn't stop down the iris.

The CCD block probably has it's own unique response curve, so what may be "safe" for the eye may not be so good for the CCD. When in doubt, treat the CCD like the eye and use filters!

IR and UV are another matter, so I would say also use filters for those wavelengths as well, even scattered light. CCD's can't get cataracts, but who knows what damage may occur.
 
KingVidiot said:
One thing you need to consider is that all sensors have different sensitivity to different visible wavelengths, even our eyes. For instance, those ubiquitous laser pointers are often green, since our eyes are more sensitive to green and you can see the whole beam at lower power."

Actually, that reminds me of something I heard on the news a month or two ago. Apperantly doctors recently discovered that looking into a green laser pointer (even a consumer one, rather than one for burning people) will cause more damage in 60 seconds than a red laser will in 20 minutes. Of course, the fact that a red laser wouldn't have jacked your ccd is likely little consolation.
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Green lasers can be quite dangerous to your eyes. I've always had to wear protective goggles when around green laser beams (or have the emitter completely blocked from view).

It's awesome when you get to see these things on! You can see the beam very well!

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Good news. I didnt have to get into any legal arguments or moral debates...
The UPS man came by Friday and believe it or not - it was my XL2 back from the factory - ALL FIXED! -And done under warenty! !!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
The letter said it was restored to Factory Specificatns.
I cant believe it. I was expectng the worst. - Like having to pay 2 grand or something as ppl have mentined here. I expectd they would be calling me and telling me - but They didnt even call me about it- just sent it to me. No complaints - Well, thank you Canon, I guess I can only say good things about you. They even sent it back to me overnight delivery.

In case anyone was wondering- Under Service Details it said:
rpl, ccd assy.

Thats all it said, so I asume they replaced (what?) the ccd assy (whats that?)

Well, just thought I let you all rest easier tonight.

Peice.
 
Yey! I said it was worth a try! Trust me, you got off lightly!

"rpl, ccd assy"

sounds like they replaced the CCD assembly...? I guess that would be pretty pricy normally! Probably cost them a few quid.

So a big pat on the back to Canon. Good PR for them!
 
congrats brother...
free is excellent! now that its fixed, dont point your camera at anymore lasers, ufo's or lightning strikes, etc!
t :grin:
 
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