I think I broke my XL2 by shooting Laser beam footage..Help! Is my XL2 imaging ruined

G

Gang_Green

Active member
So I have a job right now making a TV commercial for a plastic surtion. He wanted some footage of laser Tattoo removal in the spot.

For the shoot we all had to wear protective glasses so the light would not hurt our eyes. Apparently this laser projects very bright colored green light out of it. -I could have never known in a million years that this could damage the XL2 camcorder! :(

I zoomed in right on the laser beam that comes out. It sort of zaps one after
another burning off the skin that contains the tattoo. Very soon I noticed that playback of everything I have recorded sence has, what apears to be green dots burned into the center of the image.

It is very noticeable, and not something you can just ignore. Seems to be missing about 10 - 15 pixels right in the middle. They are burned in green the color of the laser. - Anyway, is this something that can be fixed? What part of the cam do you think is broken??? :undecided

Tyson.
 
Did you zoom in on the skin where the beam was hitting or did you zoom in on the actual emitter? I used to work a laser show and get burned all the time by those beams -- I still have a small scar on my hand. Putting paper in contact with the beam resulted in an instant fire. If this laser is anything like those then I suppose it's possible that even the reflection from the beam hitting a light colored surface could be enough to damage the camera. If anything is messed up it seems like it'd be the CCDs.
 
Honestly, I'm not as tech savy about cameras as most people in this forum, but it sounds like a permanant image was burned onto your CCD because of the frequency of the light. Much like if you let a big screen TV or LCD have the same image projected on it for too long. All I gotta say is... Wow, that sucks man. I hope you have insurance!
 
I found this:

Even a 1 mW laser beam can potentially produce permanent damage to the CCD or silicon sensor array insid e a video or still digital camera.

If the camera is focused at infinity, a collimated laser beam will be focused to a tiny spot on the image sensor. Whether damage will occur depends on many factors including the type of image sensor, quality and focus of the optics, and how long the beam is held in one place. A 1 mW beam (much less than what some laser pointers produce) is roughly equivalent to the brightness of the noonday Sun at the equator on a clear day and when focused to a 10 um spot (the approximate size of one pixel on a typical video camera) it becomes 10,000 times more intense! Needless to say, pointing a camera at the Sun is generally not recommended.
 
I took care of that camera like it was a living baby -and now this happens!

To answer you- I focused on both the emiter and the skin it was hitting. - And whatever technical mumbo the guy above said; sounds like what happened.
They should warn you about lasers if even a laser pointer can damage a camera. At least it did not damage my eyes, casue I was not wearing the glasses, but only looking at it through the viewfinder.

Anyone have an estimated guesstimation of how much this will cost me to send into Canon and get fixed?
 
I just checked the Warenty card;

"PARTS:
Defective parts will be exchanged for a period of one year from date of purchase, except for defective imaging devices in camera, which will be exchanged for a period of six months from date of purchase."

Ive owned the cam since Sep 3rd 2004 (first released).
 
fishquail said:
I just checked the Warenty card;
Click to expand...

Since it could be expensive then check out what the law say. The law to some extent overrule whatever companies put in their package. And do they provide any warning text about shooting pictures with lasers? I noticed that my new computer keyboard now contains a lot of warning texts on it. The law might stipulate that a product should work for at least 2 or 3 years and then it is that what goes. We have a 2 year warranty here in sweden. I recently studied a law course and found that the law doesn't say ANYTHING about warranty. Depending on what the product is you can have up to 10 years guarantee.
 
I would think that you camera is quite badly damaged... :(

...but...

If you are careful and clever, you may be able to get the repair done for free.:laugh:

I am from the UK where the law is different, but I would say that you have three choices:

• If the manual doesn't mention possible damage by lasers and bright lights, blame Canon for providing inadequate instructions for such a complex device. Maybe say you explicitly checked the manual beforehand and were misled that everything would be okay.

• or... don't mention the laser and question why the hell dead pixel have started growing on your CCD. I don't know US law, but it doesn't matter what the warranty says, only what THE LAW says. You can argue (quite rightly IMO) that the camera CCDs should last more than 6 months! That is a bit of a joke really. In the UK goods have to "be fit for the purpose for which they are sold." A camera that breaks after 6 months definitely isn't. More expensive goods should also be of higher quality, so argue that too, as it is an expensive camera.

• or... Blame the guy who asked you to film the laser. He should have known better or at least warned you about the risk.

One thing is for sure. Canon will NOT agree to your demands. You will have to fight them like a mad, but calculating dog. Be absolutely sure of your argument so that when they say no, and they will, you throw 10 legal quotes that they are breeching at them and ask to speak to someone who has knowledge of consumer rights. The case sounds a little grey to me, but I should think you could pull it off.
 
I hate to be the bearer of really bad news, but you've pretty much screwed the pooch. The CCD's are fried and will need to be replaced. This entails replacing the entire optical block because the CCD's are permanently attached to the block. My guess is you're looking at somewhere between one and two thousand bucks --- parts + labor --- to replace it and it's highly unlikely this would be covered under Canon's warranty. Look at this as an expensive learning experience.
 
...Try and get it done for free though, all the same. I don't reckon Canon would miss the money as much as you would!

It is amazing how far other people's stupidity will get you!
 
Well, I just checked the Manuel, there are a lot of safty instructions - the basic, water, moisture, dust, magnetic fields, lightning and so on are noted. But there is no warning about bright lights, or specificly laser light or any light being able to damage the camera.
I would think they would at least say something about sunlight...

As far as legal advice, I would take that into consideration...

"• If the manual doesn't mention possible damage by lasers and bright lights, blame Canon for providing inadequate instructions for such a complex device. Maybe say you explicitly checked the manual beforehand and were misled that everything would be okay."
Click to expand...

This sounds like I might be able to claim such "inadiqwite instructions" were not provided but I'm not exactly a law student. Sure I can list some of the reasons I have for thinking canon should pay for the problem, but I have no idea how to threaten them with "the law" if it must come to that...

Does anyone really think I have a case here? I mean, if you were the jurry what would you say? :undecided

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I also read the Warently card further--- its very fishy where it says:

"The Limited Warenty covers all defects encounterd in normal use of the equpment and does not apply in the following cases:
A) Damage due to abuse, mishandeling, accident, improper maintence, failure to follow operating instructions-
B)If the equipment is dameaged due to leaking batteries, sand, or water damage.
C) If defects or damage are caused by service by someone unautherised to provide service.
D)If the eqwipment is used for commercial or industrial use.


Seems to me that covers just about anything unless something inside the camera breaks on its own....
 
fishquail said:
Does anyone really think I have a case here? I mean, if you were the jurry what would you say? :undecided
Click to expand...

I don't know which country you are in so your country might be different. Do you have any consumer interest organisation you can contact for legal advice? Or perhaps a law-school near by? Or.. go to the library and study your rights. Have you purchased the camera as a company or in private? I can only say what goes for sweden and to some extent EU-law (all EU-countries). If you buy as a company you have to sign a paper and agree to overrule the laws. For business sales to consumer you can NEVER overrule the laws. The consumer is considered "weaker" than a company and hence heaviler protected.

And regarding that warranty card... trust the law more. It's the law that rules not the card.

I think you can have a case but you might want to have the money ready for a worse case scenario...

Good luck! /Fredrik.
 
I think that you do have a case, but I love a scrap with big companies! I have had a lot of victories in the past and EVERY SINGLE TIME the have refused my initial requests.

My biggest was for £1400 ($2500) of repairs to my accident-damaged 2nd hand, 4-year old car. I got the whole thing paid for by Renault. It did take 10-weeks of arguing though! In the end, they realised that I had done my homework and would not quit.

What it boils down to is knowing the law better than the company does. You will have to speak to some idiot in "Customer Relations" who will have no idea what they are on about and try to fob you off with a load of ****. They are very unlikely to pay huge amounts of money on proper legal advice (ie a Lawyer) for a claim as minor as yours. Use their stupidity against them.

I find that being extemely polite works well, BUT if they question your legal rights, get very angry, ask to speak to their supervisor, question what training they have had in that area. Record ALL phone converstions and keep EVERYTHING in writing. Log all calls and e-mails with exact time and date. Then when you refer back to something (as you definately will have to) quote the exact time and date and name who you spoke to. This will show how serious you are and how incompetent they are. Question their record keeping and legal knowledge, it will be piss-poor at best!

Good Luck!

Disclaimer: I am no lawyer and speak only from experience I have had in the UK. These are only my opinions, and NOT legal advice.
 
lol... I can't believe I just used a discliamer...I am such a geek!

I suppose you need to be for things like this though!! :thumbsup:
 
Loved your post mmm! And additionally, if you can reference WHICH law and paragraph you are referring to you are kicking ass... :)
 
I am currently claiming against a computer company in the UK for supplying my with faulty DVD-Rs.

I have quoted so many legal facts at them, I think I have melted their tiny brains. This is a very small section of my last e-mail to them in order to demonstrate the kind of tact required:

"3) The disks are labelled as "fully compatible" so even if it is a compatibility issue, the return should be accepted and refund given due to a breech of the "Trade Descriptions Act 1968". I do not believe that this is the case following my conversation with "Tim," a member of your technical staff on 27th May at 16:23h. I hold an audio recording of this conversation."

They will get scared to question you very quickly.
 
I think you may need to just pony up. Pointing a camera at a laser is not too different than pointing it at the sun. What happened can't really be blamed on the camera functioning, but instead handling error. No different than if you shot underwater without a proper camera housing unit. They would probably say you abused your camera while using it.

I don't think I'd be comfortable lying to a company about what happened to get it fixed either. But if you think it's worth months of fighting them to get it fixed for free then go for it. But if videography is your job, it seems better to eat the cost and get the cam fixed, and move forward so that you can get more paid work.

.02
 
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