Have you looked at the footage on a 50" the way I have? If you only shoot for the web, you don't need a camera like this anyway. I was a skeptic until I saw it in full res. You would probably understand if you did also. There are a number of variables which go in to how video looks streaming, all compressed on a little laptop.
I still want one
- Thread starter Joe Walker
- Start date
Have you looked at the footage on a 50" the way I have? If you only shoot for the web, you don't need a camera like this anyway. I was a skeptic until I saw it in full res. You would probably understand if you did also. There are a number of variables which go in to how video looks streaming, all compressed on a little laptop.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Just saw the footage on my 46" Panny plasma.
Looked great to me.
Looked great to me.
Cosimo Bullo
Veteran
Um... many of my clienti need video for web and for larger format. If it can't look great on the web, there is a problem. Maybe this is only a grading problem.
Viewing it with what video card, monitor, OS, and processor?
These are just a few of the factors, beyond of course compression and what site is hosting, that affects how video is viewed.
Your point, with all due respect, is what? Is there a state of shared hardware, software, compression settings, video card, processor, etc. that we all have when viewing on the web?
if so, what is it?
Ive watched Barry's clip on a 30" Apple cinema display blown up to the monitors native resolution via a non professional video card (a big powerful expensive video card is not a professional video card) - not so good, 58" pro plasma connected via HD-SDI looked great, CRT DTV monitor connected via HD-SDI, looked great.
Felt sorry for Barry though as he seems to have got the demo unit with the busted pixel.
And you guys, while I appreciate the sentiment, dont need to justify yourselves purchasing a first in class camera - actually that statement made me laugh - Person A: I want to buy that new first in class camera, with waveform, dual zebras, built in uncompressed audio with two XLR ports etc etc etc PERSON B: Are you crazy? heh
Im not walking, Im still running for mine.
Felt sorry for Barry though as he seems to have got the demo unit with the busted pixel.
And you guys, while I appreciate the sentiment, dont need to justify yourselves purchasing a first in class camera - actually that statement made me laugh - Person A: I want to buy that new first in class camera, with waveform, dual zebras, built in uncompressed audio with two XLR ports etc etc etc PERSON B: Are you crazy? heh
Im not walking, Im still running for mine.
Cosimo Bullo
Veteran
My point is great looking image don't need excuse.
Julienmassie
Member
I would like to connect this HD SDI out to the 30 000$ monitor at the CCU station at my job ...
http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/product/bvm/bvm-l170
BING!
No seriously i would like to.
http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/product/bvm/bvm-l170
BING!
No seriously i would like to.
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Your "point' doesn't make a point.
Web presented video has dozens of variables. Unless we all see it on the same hardware, with the same software, and the same encoding parameters with same encoder (and there are dozens are there), then there is no standard.
My thought is that you aren't making a point; you're just grinding an axe.
If you have the cams noted, why consider the AF-100? Shoot with the RED, varicam and 5D.
If they produce what you need, buy another set of each.
i think a lot of people will be disappointed if they cancel orders based on a couple of pre production tests. even production tests. there are way too many parameters to factor in when shooting with any camera, thus what makes an operator stand out from the crowd. my xha1 redrock footage looked night and day from when i first got it to 4 months later, due to the fact of knowing what setting worked and didnt. this camera will be that same journey, figuring out what preset works with what ISO with what lens, aperture etc. i have liked the footage thus far and am not letting that be the judge of what my footage will look like. i am still very excited to explore this camera and have some great images.
Well what is the point of releasing footage on the internet if the internet is not that good ?
Said this before, it's like saying : "I've got something here for you to see but dont look at it !"
I didn't state that the internet isn't "that good."
I stated that internet video isn't viewed uniformly by everyone, nor is what is used to encode video for internet display uniform. Compression, processors, encoders, etc. are all factors in what we see.
You can't assess the quality of a new camcorder based on what we see in vimeo.
That's pretty axiomatic.
If you want to sit down in movie theater and look at the raw footage, then we share a common experience.
Otherwise, it's crap shoot.
Encode RED footage using iDVD and that same footage using CinemaCraft. Think they'll look the same if viewed on an uprezzing HDMI DVD player with a Pioneer Elite Plasma, or a composite output to a ten year old television?
I stated that internet video isn't viewed uniformly by everyone, nor is what is used to encode video for internet display uniform. Compression, processors, encoders, etc. are all factors in what we see.
You can't assess the quality of a new camcorder based on what we see in vimeo.
That's pretty axiomatic.
If you want to sit down in movie theater and look at the raw footage, then we share a common experience.
Otherwise, it's crap shoot.
Encode RED footage using iDVD and that same footage using CinemaCraft. Think they'll look the same if viewed on an uprezzing HDMI DVD player with a Pioneer Elite Plasma, or a composite output to a ten year old television?
Julienmassie
Member
I agree whit this.
Even whit your unbalanced, non-reference 50'' HDTV ... how can you say that its a good image quality or say '' OMG its so nice !!!!! ''. Even if you pass by your ps3 ... I was not really joking when i said on the previous page that i wanted to take a look at the AF100 output on the balanced, top of the line http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/product/bvm/bvm-l170 monitor ( around 30 000$ ) that i have the chance to use in my everyday job. Now i would be able to compare it to a couple of different 100 000K+ sony studio camera, others clean full uncompressed HD feed, and see how the camera image is looking on a way too expensive HD chart, tektronics HD scope and a couple of other out of price range equipements.
Like does this camera by default have blue black, green flare, a primary red gamma curve and poor auto white ?
Well that will depends on the lens too ...
I just hope to find these setting in the menu to play whit them like i used to found on others cam or ccu.
I dont think you can judge a image on your hdtv ... well you can but you will judge how it looks on YOUR tv ...
Even whit your unbalanced, non-reference 50'' HDTV ... how can you say that its a good image quality or say '' OMG its so nice !!!!! ''. Even if you pass by your ps3 ... I was not really joking when i said on the previous page that i wanted to take a look at the AF100 output on the balanced, top of the line http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/product/bvm/bvm-l170 monitor ( around 30 000$ ) that i have the chance to use in my everyday job. Now i would be able to compare it to a couple of different 100 000K+ sony studio camera, others clean full uncompressed HD feed, and see how the camera image is looking on a way too expensive HD chart, tektronics HD scope and a couple of other out of price range equipements.
Like does this camera by default have blue black, green flare, a primary red gamma curve and poor auto white ?
Well that will depends on the lens too ...
I just hope to find these setting in the menu to play whit them like i used to found on others cam or ccu.
I dont think you can judge a image on your hdtv ... well you can but you will judge how it looks on YOUR tv ...
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David you lost me at IDVD !
but I had the chance to work with cinemacraft for 2 years. Encoding ENG edits mostly and it was the best I'd used then .
I personally prefer old crt monitors but hey everybody wants a plasma .
Now I believe my question is still unanswered :
What is the point of releasing footage on the internet or vimeo for that matter ?
but I had the chance to work with cinemacraft for 2 years. Encoding ENG edits mostly and it was the best I'd used then .
I personally prefer old crt monitors but hey everybody wants a plasma .
Now I believe my question is still unanswered :
What is the point of releasing footage on the internet or vimeo for that matter ?
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Julienmassie
Member
I will try a awnser
I think most of the project that will be filmed whit the AF100 whit end on vimeo/youtube , regular def DVD, your home TV, maybe blu-ray and ... im not even sure if it will end up on Film or Digital cinema ....
So, its still nice to see how it look on these thing since it will primary be diffused there after all. Who will really see your project on reference monitor ? Probably nobody.
I think most of the project that will be filmed whit the AF100 whit end on vimeo/youtube , regular def DVD, your home TV, maybe blu-ray and ... im not even sure if it will end up on Film or Digital cinema ....
So, its still nice to see how it look on these thing since it will primary be diffused there after all. Who will really see your project on reference monitor ? Probably nobody.
and I totally agree with you therefore we can judge the image because geuss what 99.99% no 99% procent of your clients and viewers do not own a http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/product/bvm/bvm-l170 monitor.
So we as shooters, editors, producers,gaffer, bestboy, soundman a.c. etc can get a feel or judgement of how it will look on most viewers monitors ( lcds, crt's etc)
Now I do recommend to technically judge the image you do need and HD production monitor
So we as shooters, editors, producers,gaffer, bestboy, soundman a.c. etc can get a feel or judgement of how it will look on most viewers monitors ( lcds, crt's etc)
Now I do recommend to technically judge the image you do need and HD production monitor
My point is that vimeo being viewed on a thousand different computer configurations does not consistently, uniformly or accurately represent what the AF100 is capable of.
Factor in how the raw video was encoded to vimeo, and you have too many variables to accurately assess what the camera is capable of. None of which I have control over.
We've had a 170 for four years or so. I'm still learning how to properly set it up and record to its capabilities. PB and BG are great, but they had two days to shoot. And I don't know what settings were used for the AF100, or how and with what it was encoded to vimeo.
I don't even know if it was transcoded from AVCHD to what other codec, or edited with what editing system.
Ask Panasonic why it did this; I don't know. It's marketing decision, and it deserves as much credibility as a marketing decision.
I'll reserve judgment on the cam when it's released in final form, and when I chance to demo it.
My clients determine if it is good, not the first sample on vimeo of footage I don't regularly shoot.
Factor in how the raw video was encoded to vimeo, and you have too many variables to accurately assess what the camera is capable of. None of which I have control over.
We've had a 170 for four years or so. I'm still learning how to properly set it up and record to its capabilities. PB and BG are great, but they had two days to shoot. And I don't know what settings were used for the AF100, or how and with what it was encoded to vimeo.
I don't even know if it was transcoded from AVCHD to what other codec, or edited with what editing system.
Ask Panasonic why it did this; I don't know. It's marketing decision, and it deserves as much credibility as a marketing decision.
I'll reserve judgment on the cam when it's released in final form, and when I chance to demo it.
My clients determine if it is good, not the first sample on vimeo of footage I don't regularly shoot.
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Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
I deleted a recent post calling for the moderation of another member. Rather than publicly escalating things, please use the "Report A Post" button to notify the Mods so it can be dealt with in a civil manner. The button looks like this...
and every post has one. Thanks.
TheReverend
Well-known member
I plan on getting one!
Maybe two depending on how things go. Hopefully will order in January/February. We will see!
Maybe two depending on how things go. Hopefully will order in January/February. We will see!
Barry_Green
Moderator
And for those who don't know, bgundu is one of the guys who could make the DVX100 absolutely sing like Susan Boyle. A total master. What he could extract from a standard-def, 4:3 DVX100 would make most shooters here envious (I know he makes me envious). So Bob knows exactly what he's talking about, and I look forward to seeing what he can do with an AF100.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Agreed. Now look at it on a 25-foot projection screen. Most of it looked very good, some was just fantastic. Then imagine what it will look like when the shooters have had time to really learn the camera and finesse the image... I have every confidence that gorgeous work will be done by many folks with this camcorder.