I simply can`t understand why xa20/25 are getting all those good reviews

Aar5

Member
Hi
A week ago I spontaniously bought the Canon XA20 because it was on sale. In my daily life I work as a cameraman for television, and I wanted a small portable camera for a) doing small jobs on the side b) filming my family. I new Canon marketed it as a "professional" camera, and also it received a bunch of great reviews, so I went for it. I can`t understand why everyone is shouting halleluja about this camera. Its a great consumercamera, but this was aimed at professionals. Based upon that I am really disappointed. Here is why:

HANDLING:
Well, it has two wheels to work with and thats good. But the image adjustments you can do are really limiting. Its impossible to change white-balance while recording. The small customizable wheel must be re-customized if your changing rec program, too many things must be operated on the touch screen, the remote control is very un-intuitive in playback mode (I dont care about that though, its just annoying) and so on

SOUND:
The internal mics, that I planned to use when I rig the camera down for "a walk in the park" with my kids, are useless. No matter what setting I used there is too much noise, and the built in compressor is a disaster, pumping the volume like it was some kind of a radio-commercial. In some situations the xa20 was outperformed soundwise by my iphone. Can you believe that? Worst of all is the delay, its the first camera I have used that has a delay when using the headphones during recording, I guess its about 3-400 milliseconds, resulting in having to listen at echo constantly when filming. When mounting an external mic in the xlr-input the sound is ok though.

NOISE/GRAIN:
I written about this in another post but here is a summary. The image is very noisy/grainy, even with the gain deactivated. I just cant understand what this noise is. Look here at my example, the gain is set to 0. Grain is crawling all over the image. Has Canon put some "hidden gain" in the image just to make it get good test results in low light? Or is it due to the small sensor? I just wonder because this is really bad.

ND-FILTER:
The camera lacks an ND filter, it has an electronic one but it is automatic and I cant use it as I want. On a sunny day, this means the camera has to use way to fast shutter if you want to stay a bit low on the iris. This is resulting in a very harsh "fast-shutter-image", like my iphone produces for instance. Rolling shutter issues increases also because of this.

BOKEH:
If you want to get shallow dept of field, well keep your expectations low and get happily surprised if it turns out like you want. Sometimes the bokeh is nice and smooth, but because the lens is fairly cheap, the bokeh also sometimes looks really ugly. Especially when there are lots of small details in the background. Hard to explain what it looks like when its bad, its just not able to smoothen out the background.

STABILIZER:
Canon states correctly the XA20 has got an optical stabilizer, but it also has got an electronic one, like the Smooth Cam in final cut for instance. The stabiliser works sometimes great, but way to often it acts really disturbing. Like sudden hard notches in the image, especially when filming while walking.

I have decided to keep the camera for a while though, just to see if I can learn to love it a bit more. As I stated earlier, its a very very good consumer camera. My complaints are based upon Canon telling me its for professionals. I have now bought myself a variable ND-filter which dramatically increases the overall handling of the camera for me. The variable ND also allows me to get shallow dept of field outside in daylight, though it sometimes looks horrible. :( The camera also is very portable which is a good thing. So I hope I find ways to make it more lovable as I get used to it. It might also be that I am a bit spoiled image-wise since I am working with shouldercameras and c300 every day. I know for shure that my TV-channel wouldnt accept the video this camera produces.

Sorry for sounding like such an angry man. :) Just a bit disappointed
 
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Philip Bloom reviewed it the XA25 and thought it was the best mini cmacorder he ever used. And you're the first person I've read of that has found it noisy. I've seen low light samples on you tube and they have all been pretty good results in my estimation.

below is a sample video (not mine). It looks pretty dang good.


I've also bought the XA25, and I think the audio recording is excellent with AGC being really good. I haven't used the built in mics. Who would? I've used the Rode video mic to record musical performance through a PA. The AGC kept it pretty close to 0 without distortion. Didn't really notice any pumping.

I also bought the wireless canon WM-V1 mic and it's excellent with AGC performing well with it. I've used it with a vocal and guitar with the wireless mic clipped to the guitar strap. It sounds damn fine. Love it.

Actually I'm amazed with the whole XA20/25 set up.
 
I agree that the sound with external microphones (through the xlr) is good. My critisism was solely towards the built-in mic. Why does that matter? Do I really need that mic?

Well, when hiking, biking or doing other activities with my 3 children its important for me to have a camera that is as small as possible. It was kind of important to me to find a camera where the XLR adaptor could be taken off for this purpose. After filming for nearly 20 years, this is by far the worst sound I have experienced in any camera, my iphone included. So it was quite dissapointing.

However, when doing small jobs for companies and so on I will use the XLRs of course. When using them the sound is as good as any camera out there.


Nice shots btw. Did you do any grading in post? FIlters? Do you remeber which shutterspeed you used?
 
Philip Bloom reviewed it the XA25 and thought it was the best mini cmacorder he ever used. And you're the first person I've read of that has found it noisy. I'......

I think it is strange too that I am almost the only one on the web being this negative to the camera. Especially I think its weird that I am the only one complaining about noisy image. I posted a video above which was filmed in daylight with gained turned off, it showed a lot of noise. Did you see that?

Below you can see a vimeo-version of it, but the vimeo-transcoding kind of smoothens out some the grain. So if you cant see the grain you should really look at the original file which (again) is here and tell me what you think. That goes out to all other readers too. Do you think this much grain/noise is acceptable when no gain is activated? Remember, look at the original file, not the vimeo-version below to see it uncompressed straight from the camera.

 
I think it is strange too that I am almost the only one on the web being this negative to the camera. Especially I think its weird that I am the only one complaining about noisy image.

I find that interesting too. Makes me think that either you've got a bad sample, user error (you haven't learned the camera yet), or your expectations are too high for a small sensor entry level camera.

I used to see the same complaints from people who where new to large format still photography. When their first attempts don't work out, some immediately and publicly blame the format. Then they either learn the new medium, or drop out.

Which are you going to do?
 
Which are you going to do?

Well, first of all I am going to ask you (and others) what you think of the clip I posted. :) Do you think it is too grainy considering there is no gain activated? If you and others dont think this is too grainy, well then maybe my expectations were to high.
If on the contrary people agree with me that this is too grainy, I think it is strange that no reviews mentions it because this grain is apparent in various degrees in all shots with this camera. I dont think I have handled the camera wrong as you suggested. I have been using all sorts of cameras in my job for about 15 years now so I am pretty used to using a lot of different cameras.

So, what is your opinion about the grain?
 
If on the contrary people agree with me that this is too grainy, I think it is strange that no reviews mentions it because this grain is apparent in various degrees in all shots with this camera.

That's not what I am getting from my XA25. Are you using it in "CINEMA" mode? Also, about internal mics - I use them only to synch audio recorded on external recorder.
 
That's not what I am getting from my XA25. Are you using it in "CINEMA" mode?.....

I am using it in Manual mode so it should be ok. Of course its easier to see the grain in a shot like this where there are big dark areas, but when I look close this grain is apparent in all shots.
Could you please have a closer look on your own shots? Can you see the grain crawling then? Maybe you could post an original file too so I can look for myself?
 
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