I hate final cut pro

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cecil995 said:
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Geez, thanks for usefull insight. I can take constructive critisim but to just post something like this doesn't add to the conversation. If the thread doesn't interest you, then maybe you shouldn't post responses in it. Besides, there many people here than see the point I am trying to make.
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Im merely trying to point out that you shouldn’t let these snobs (you say you encounter) get to you. you should rise above it. if it takes learning FCP then do it! Land some work and show your so called snobs that being a snob about FCP is unnecessary. FCP is not going away anytime soon… So my advice is to - get on with it - if that is not constructive enough for you then I apologize.

Good luck!
 
I'm not in the business of starting arguments on here, just that you understand that when the first word in your post is "yawn", than that sends a negative message. I respect the opinions of everyone in here, and always appreciate all the posts, positive and negative. I don't expect fcp to disapear, and i know that this is an evolving business. I am not a fan of apple's biased marketing, and I think that contributes to the arguments that I was making on here.
 
And again... these people that were hired seem to be borderline retarded..
"One of them actually told me he didn't understand the operating system and though it was "stupid". he had never worked on anything but a mac"
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... are you f*ing kidding me?

How the hell do these people call themselves "professionals" , give me a job.. and fire those morons... that is definitely one of the stupidest things I have heard before.

which brings up an interesting point: most pc users have some rudementary understanding of how a computer works. in my experience many mac users don't and they are totally lost when their gui doesn't tell them what to do.
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Well.. that is total horse ****.. and you know it is... cause "most" PC users... and "most" mac Users.. are not professional editors. Most PC can use MSN and hotmail. Most Mac users can use MSN and hotmail...

morten said:
it's true tools don't make you an editor. which is why this thread was started to begin with: more and more people ask specifically for FCP editors rather than editors proving like someone said earlier in the thread that they don't understand the video editing world. Thus my friend you proved my point. thank you.
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I am gonna go out on a limb here.. but the reason they ask for "FCP Editors" is cause they are running Final Cut Pro Systems. Sure you can just put "Editor needed" but in that instance you probably don't care what NLE they use. Companies post what they need, there are plenty of AVID Editor positions...

so.. if I post an ad for an "ARRI SR3 Camera Op" that means I don't know about the world of production? give me a break.

I am definitely of the mindset that tools don't make the talent, but they help the talent. And yes, posting "FCP Editor" or "AVID Editor" means little to nothing except it tells you what platform they are running.

I am not too sure what your status has to do with this other than for some blatant self promotion (which I am all for). What canadian station do you work for?

CBC? CTV? Global? one of the Chum stations? OMNI? I could keep listing.. but I think those are the main national channels..
 
cecil995 said:
I'm not in the business of starting arguments on here, just that you understand that when the first word in your post is "yawn", than that sends a negative message. I respect the opinions of everyone in here, and always appreciate all the posts, positive and negative. I don't expect fcp to disapear, and i know that this is an evolving business. I am not a fan of apple's biased marketing, and I think that contributes to the arguments that I was making on here.
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Dude you reap what you sow... you can't expect the comments in your thread to be 100% non negative.. not with a thread title like "I hate final cut pro"

I would read too much into everyone elses opinions... even mine..
 
cecil995 said:
Not the program itself, but the countless ass-kissing that it receives. Just look at most of the job descriptions out there these days. No longer are you just a video or film edntor....you have to be a "final cut pro" editor. Avid, forget about it. Premiere Pro, nevermind. Vegas, not a chance. No, final cut pro has become such the "it" program that it is changing what people percieve about being an editor. Nevermind that Avid has been the industry standard for movies and television production for the last 10 years. Or the fact that final cut pro and adobe premiere pro are almost exactly the same program. Every job i look at has the phrase "must know final cut pro." How did this happen? Do these companies just go out and buy final cut pro because they think it will make them cool? I don't mind that they get final cut pro at their business, but it's not right to dismiss a good editor simply because they have not used final cut pro extensivly. The fact of the matter is that if you know how to edit, you can sit down and work with any software and produce a quality product. I can honestly say that if you sat me down in front of a new program, I could figure it out in at least ONE DAY. So they can't use the excuse that it would not be productive to hire someone unfamiliar with final cut pro. Yeah, I'm bitter and I don't care. I don't care that someone may say that final cut pro is vastly superior to avid media composer, adobe premiere pro, or sony vegas. The fact of the matter is that unless you are using apple imovie to edit, there are not a whole lot of differences that make one program 10 steps about another. I don't think its right to dismiss a qualified candidate because of software familiarity. I've been editing for 4 years now, and because of circumstance I have not worked alot with final cut pro. I guess that means that I am f***** out of any future job oportunites because final cut pro is the "chic" platform at the moment. How about the next time you post a job, you just call the position a "video editor." I've never seen so much bias in any industry. That's like someone hiring a taxi driver, but demand that they must have extensive experience driving fords. Its crazy. If you know how to drive it doesn't matter what kind of car you get into, and if you know how to edit, it doesn't matter what kind of software you sit in front of. Knowing final cut pro does not make you a superior editor over other editors. I hope that I am not the only one that feels this way.
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I feel the same way about all those "iMovie Editors Wanted" ads. I swear if I see another one of those, I'm going to kill myself.
 
The more specific you are in your ad, the more likely you are to narrow the field to what you are looking for. Same goes with anything. If you are running FCP or AVID or anything else for that matter and put out a non-specific add, you'll get a lot of submissions that will not fit your needs, so putting out a narrower definition of what you are looking for will help weed out those that will take time to come up to speed on your particular system...no matter what it is.

Put a non-specific ad out for an actor or actress and see how many headshots you end up having to wade through. Narrow the field a little and you'll save everyone a lot of time. You'll still get those that don't meet your criteria but at least you'll minimize the amount of those people.
 
Cecil,
Having been on the hiring end of things, hiring people who know the programs already only makes sense. When we put out word or an ad for a FCP editor or an Avid editor or AE person or whatever, we just want to make sure that we get people that can walk in and use the program right away without any hand-holding. We don't really have the time to train people properly - because that's two people, the trainer and the trainee, whose time could otherwise be occupied more productively. Budgets can be tight, and schedules are usually tighter.
Plus, why should we pay for someone to learn a program that they will then go out and perhaps benefit our competitors? I suppose a staff job might get a little lee-way, but even so, it's not always feasible to take the time to train people.
I've interviewed quite a bit of people who have given me the line, "Oh, I'll pick up FCP pretty easily, I know Avid." And I just groan internally, because that's the last thing that I want to hear, especially when we've made it clear what we are looking for.
Granted, I really don't want them lying to me either. It's bad enough when we get people who are overconfident in their FCP (or any other program) skills, much less in their supposed ability to learn it quickly. I'm not saying that this is you, but we are just cautious from past experiences where people claim to be "experts" in FCP, AE, Avid, etc. and then can't even load footage. We're pretty good at screening them out, fortunately, but I was suprised at the number of people where this has happened.
Is there a professional distinction between Avid, FCP, etc editors? Yes, of course. Is it warranted? Not in my opinion, a good editor is a good editor. But I can't change everybody's perceptions and assumptions either.
Anyway, that's my POV on the matter.
Garrett
 
Loki said:
I am not too sure what your status has to do with this other than for some blatant self promotion (which I am all for). What canadian station do you work for?

CBC? CTV? Global? one of the Chum stations? OMNI? I could keep listing.. but I think those are the main national channels..
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no blatant self promotion here (which is why I didn't say where I work)... I merely mentioned it to point out that my experience wasn't made up and that it was based on real people, not the kid down the hall who thinks he's an editor because he posts videos of his aquarium fish on YouTube (look! it's black and white.... don't you like my upside-down effect? and how 'bout this - cue tacky particle transition)

for those curious I work for Rogers Sportsnet (aka RSN) though my experiences are from other networks (not mentioning any names so don't ask)

mor10
 
cecil995 said:
I am not a fan of apple's biased marketing, and I think that contributes to the arguments that I was making on here.
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And please give us an example of Apple's "biased marketing"! I know that no other company in the world uses "biased marketing" for their products, except Apple, right? Oh please, grow up, give me a break! "Apple's biased marketing"? That's the most ignorant statement I've ever read! Get off your obvious personal grudge and move on, dude!

Microsoft is not biased in it's marketing? Sony isn't, Avid isn't, Adobe isn't? Wake up and smell reality, dude!

I hate Windows Snobs! Oh wait, they don't exist. Only Apple is biased and only FCP users are snobs, right?

I spent about seventeen years as an IT engineer. I worked Unix (SCO, Linux, AI/X, A/UX), Windows, and Apple systems. Small businesses, software developers, enterprise level, managed national projects for NCR, etc. If you want to talk snobs, let me tell you about my personal experience, dealing with Windows end users across the U.S. for MANY years! Want to talk about snobs I've personally encountered? I'd have to say the worst are Windows end users. But I don't start threads about it, I don't dwell on it, it doesn't make any difference to me. Get off your obvious personal grudge and move on, dude!

And the overwhelming majority of those Windows users don't have a CLUE as to what goes on inside a computer. If I tested you just like when I used to hire feild techs, I bet you wouldn't know enough to pass my criteria, either! An end user doesn't have to be a qualified technician! And most end users of ALL systems are not qualified technicians. And I find, in my personal expereience, most end users who THINK they know something, especially Windows users, are totally off base with their information! Get off your obvious personal grudge and move on, dude!

Why not post a thread about Sony Vegas snobs and Sony's "biased marketing"? They have a famous person in the industry on pay roll going around trashing the HVX and DVCPR0-HD all over the web and at conventions! Never saw Apple do that! Get off your obvious personal grudge and move on, dude!

Let's see, I could list all the things Apple did first with technology that Microsoft followed up with later. I can go back to FCP 1.0 and list all the inovations it had before other NLEs got with it. Pretty much everyone has FCP to thank for showing Avid's large systems were out dated technology. But do I care? No! I am happy with my work. You brought the fight on, and for really stupid reasons.

None of your arguments holds up to reality. Get off your obvious personal grudge and move on, dude!
 
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Isn't all marketing, "biased marketing"? After all, they're paying for it, why wouldn't they be biased towards themselves? Should Apple do marketing for Vegas...I'm not sure I get what's being said here.

Seriously, I really don't understand this thread. I'm not trying to make fun of it or start some kind of flame war, I'm being genuine. I just don't get it...

Apple and FCP are bad because they advertise for themselves?

Post-production houses are bad because they won't give someone a job unless they know the editing system that the post house uses?

Being skilled in a particular program shouldn't matter when applying for a job?

Are these the things that you're arguing?

Can I ask, how long have you been editing? What kind of work do you do and where?
 
I might be way off but I can't believe there's actually a debate like this one going on over NLE's, calling Avid, premier, FCP users snobs and all that. Sheesh, get a life.

I use FCP and also used Vegas. both work well but if my boss wanted me to learn JoeBlow Editing System then believe me, I'll learn it real well.
 
Wow, things are getting personal in here. First let me put to rest what you are accusing me of. Did I ever say anywhere that windows was better than apple? NO. Did I ever state that final cut pro was inferior to any other editing software? NO. I know now that starting a thread that compares final cut pro to other nle's is apparently like starting a religious argument: there is never a winner.

As far as the apple's biased marketing statement, i have no problem with a company advertising their stuff based on the merits of the program. Like, final cut pro can do this better than vegas or premiere, or final cut pro has these features that you can't find in vegas or premiere. I don't like the gimick advertising that is going on lately with apple, like the recent tv ads where the apple user is the cool one and the windows user is old and out of touch. that is playing on a lifestyle, not on the actual merits of the hardware or software, and that view has been echoed by several other members on this thread. Or the fact that apple was offering to buy premiere from windows users to switch over to apple. Or the fact that if you want to use final cut pro, you have to use it on a mac. Why not offer a windows version of final cut pro, its was based from a windows editing platform to begin with. Yeah, microsoft is guilty of the same things, but I am not sitting here defending them either.

Its funny that I am getting accused of being a snob when the whole point of this thread was to point out that stereotypes and bias in the edting world is wrong. I don't have a preference for editing programs, I will use any one of them. I will gather from the responces that at least some people understood the original point i was trying to make before this all got out of hand. All you have to do is look at sites like craigslist and monster to see that all you will see is final cut pro, final cut pro, final cut pro. So don't think that I am just pulling all of this stuff out of a hat. There is a reason for that, and I don't think its just because the merits of the program, or the cost factor that many have stated on here. Final cut and mac have been attatched to a lifestyle, its a fact, and that is affecting the way that people view what an editor is. It's not some personal grudge I have against apple. Shoot, i'll send steve jobs a christmas card this year thanking him for making a great product.

You want to know my expereince? I've been doing editing and videography for 3 years now, which includes work with NFl Films and a video production company in central pennsylvania. I am also starting up my own company. Yeah I have not been in the business for 17 years, but I'm not some stupid high school kid either.

I think that enough has been said here, but I do appreicate all the coments made.
 
FCP = Cheaper than AVID...
producers think they can pay less for operators as well... bad part is that its
generally true :)
 
Can't hardly believe that this thread is still alive, and going nowhere.

Doesn't everyone have something better to do than rehash this apple vs everything else debate; like go edit something on whatever platform with whatever software they are comfortable with?

Learn them all so you can claim to be "qualified"(yeah I know that means the PC types who hate apple and the apple types who hate PCs will have to dirty their hands on the other camps hardware) and then cut on what works best for you and the project that you are working on.
 
mcgeedigital said:
Me too..I once owned a Flyer too! :)
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Wow, the Flyer was the 1st NLE I ever used - and loved it! I've owned Amigas for years (latest is a PowerPC AmigaONE) but back then I could never afford my own personal Flyer.

Amiga, Inc. is still alive and looking to release new hardware and an updated OS. They've been speaking lately and for those of you interested, here is what they've said:

http://www.pianetaamiga.it/PianetaAmiga.mp3

http://www.amiga.org/modules/news/a...38&com_rootid=53336&com_mode=flat&com_order=0

http://www.amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6970


 
cecil995 said:
Wow, things are getting personal in here. First let me put to rest what you are accusing me of. Did I ever say anywhere that windows was better than apple? NO. Did I ever state that final cut pro was inferior to any other editing software? NO. I know now that starting a thread that compares final cut pro to other nle's is apparently like starting a religious argument: there is never a winner.

As far as the apple's biased marketing statement, i have no problem with a company advertising their stuff based on the merits of the program. Like, final cut pro can do this better than vegas or premiere, or final cut pro has these features that you can't find in vegas or premiere. I don't like the gimick advertising that is going on lately with apple, like the recent tv ads where the apple user is the cool one and the windows user is old and out of touch. that is playing on a lifestyle, not on the actual merits of the hardware or software, and that view has been echoed by several other members on this thread. Or the fact that apple was offering to buy premiere from windows users to switch over to apple. Or the fact that if you want to use final cut pro, you have to use it on a mac. Why not offer a windows version of final cut pro, its was based from a windows editing platform to begin with. Yeah, microsoft is guilty of the same things, but I am not sitting here defending them either.

Its funny that I am getting accused of being a snob when the whole point of this thread was to point out that stereotypes and bias in the edting world is wrong. I don't have a preference for editing programs, I will use any one of them. I will gather from the responces that at least some people understood the original point i was trying to make before this all got out of hand. All you have to do is look at sites like craigslist and monster to see that all you will see is final cut pro, final cut pro, final cut pro. So don't think that I am just pulling all of this stuff out of a hat. There is a reason for that, and I don't think its just because the merits of the program, or the cost factor that many have stated on here. Final cut and mac have been attatched to a lifestyle, its a fact, and that is affecting the way that people view what an editor is. It's not some personal grudge I have against apple. Shoot, i'll send steve jobs a christmas card this year thanking him for making a great product.

You want to know my expereince? I've been doing editing and videography for 3 years now, which includes work with NFl Films and a video production company in central pennsylvania. I am also starting up my own company. Yeah I have not been in the business for 17 years, but I'm not some stupid high school kid either.

I think that enough has been said here, but I do appreicate all the coments made.
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I totally agree with you. I have been reading this thread since the beginning and I do believe that you were taken out of context. I understood the original point you were making and that was that it was the skill of the editor and not the program and you don't like being dismissed as not being a good editor because you happen to not work on a specific program at the moment. I think we should all cut him some slack.
 
khmuse said:
Can't hardly believe that this thread is still alive, and going nowhere.

Doesn't everyone have something better to do than rehash this apple vs everything else debate; like go edit something on whatever platform with whatever software they are comfortable with?

Learn them all so you can claim to be "qualified"(yeah I know that means the PC types who hate apple and the apple types who hate PCs will have to dirty their hands on the other camps hardware) and then cut on what works best for you and the project that you are working on.
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:thumbup: Well put.

I think everybody needs to sit down and read The Sneetches by Dr. Seuss.
 
No one ever dissmissed someone as a bad editor based on the NLE they used. You claim because studios with FCP systems installed are wrong for wanting editors already skilled in FCP. That's just laughable.

Where did an employer ever state that someone was not a good editor because they didn't use FCP? If someone has FCP installed, they want someone who is skilled with FCP. What is there to not understand?

Did you know that studios with Avid installed are snobs, too, because they only hire editors experienced with Avid!

Dr. Seuss, Timothy Leary, crap, I always get those two confused...
 
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