I hate final cut pro

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I'm not really on the up and up with the editing industry, but I can somewhat agree with you...
FCP totally dominates craigslist.org - and that's where i get most my little gigs. I think I've seen one ad for a vegas editor in about 6 months.
 
infokill said:
I only read the first post so this is in responce to that.
But 90% of the job's i interview/work for ask for avid or preimere.
I use FCP at my home studio but can edit on anything, but i want to know where are you looking for job, cuz i rather use FCP lol.
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is sounds like the exact opposite of what i am finding. please let me know where you are seeing jobs for premiere users hahaha
 
Interesting. I use FCP personally, but that's at home. When we go to edit something at a production house, we never even ask what they're running on. It's almost always Avid, with some FCP. We go for the editor, not the program.

Fox
 
Joe Kras said:
I don't know about cutting down on the number of bungles, but hiring FCP editors cuts down on the number of dongles.
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I love how mac people are so behind on what's going on with PCs. What dongles? Last time I saw a dongle in a software pack was a good 3 years ago. I run a fully licensed version of Adobe Production Studio Premium and the only dongle on my pc is the one that talks to my wireless mouse.

mor10
*tired of brand loyalty and blind faith*
 
im surprised Vegas doesnt have more of a follwing.

Almost everyone i know edits FCP/avid. but they all say "yea but i hear great things about vegas"
 
morten said:
I love how mac people are so behind on what's going on with PCs. What dongles? Last time I saw a dongle in a software pack was a good 3 years ago. I run a fully licensed version of Adobe Production Studio Premium and the only dongle on my pc is the one that talks to my wireless mouse.

mor10
*tired of brand loyalty and blind faith*
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uhm yah adobe doesnt use dongles on either... current avids use dongles, as does pro tools(for plugins) this is on both platforms..
 
morten said:
All I know is that most editors I know understand linear (tape) editing while the FCP guys can't do anything but FCP. And that the editors can migrate to FCP while the FCP guys are toast if put in front of any other app.

Apple/Mac taking over the video editing world is quite disturbing because once they've taken a big enough share there will be no variety and no choice anymore. and thos that think that mac will always be an innovative brand need to think again. that's not how things work.
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it doesn't sound like you've ever met an editor before.... more like you've met some stupid mac users.

If you know how to use FCP you basically know how to use any NLE.. same goes if you know AVID.. you can pretty much use any NLE out there. Tools don't make you an editor.
 
I don't often agree with Loki... because his Avatar is zany?

But, once you learn how to slice in Final Cut you can migrate to just about any platform. Even editing on Andrenaline and Avid becomes intuitive afterward.

Adapting and getting more money out of it might be the better option.
 
As an FCP trainer, I get a lot of editors from various platforms in my classes and semianrs needing to learn FCP for their jobs; current techology change in the studio, going to a new studio, out of school landing their first editing job, etc.

Editors from Fox News, Discovery Channel, etc. They're attitude is, you learn what they person writing your paycheck wants you to learn. None gripe, none moan, no bitching. At the end of the class, they really like FCP and are very surprised at the myths that got busted, and the features they never knew about. I've never had anyone walk away not liking FCP and the OSX system.

So, if there's a job that requries FCP editing, learn FCP. If it requires Avid, learn Avid. Why complain? You're not the one signing the paychecks. You can hold a professional attitude and get the paycheck, or complain and stay unemployed.

Personally, I don't care what NLE any studio uses. But I can assure you that studios don't invest in NLE systems based on enthusiastic users. They look at the bottom line: what money goes into it, what money comes out of it.

If someone offered me a killer job editing on Avid for a ton of money, I'd learn Avid really well as fast as I could. But, I get paid to teach and produce with FCP. The film industry has rebuilt here in post-Katrina New Orleans, they were the first industry to return and get up and running full speed. I was overwhelmed with requests to learn FCP, prepare for FCP end user certifications, all cause these Hollywood studios that have facilities here, and the large local studios, lost a ton of people who moved away. They all need FCP editors. That's the cold, hard reality.

So if you come to N.O. and want to be an editor, no one cares how much you love anything, or what a good rant you can produce about it. They just want someone to walk in and be productive enough to justify a paycheck. Just happens to be on FCP systems.

I don't understand what the complaint is. That you can't find a job editing with your personal favorite NLE? It's a JOB, it's about your EMPLOYER'S wants, needs, and opinions, NOT yours!

FCP is a very powerful, flexable, customizable system, period. Studios use it due to the bottom line, not due to your personal opinion. Learn what you must to get the job you want. Or go find another job. If you don't like the party, leave, there's another one down the block.
 
BenB said:
As an FCP trainer, I get a lot of editors from various platforms in my classes and semianrs needing to learn FCP for their jobs; current techology change in the studio, going to a new studio, out of school landing their first editing job, etc.

Editors from Fox News, Discovery Channel, etc. They're attitude is, you learn what they person writing your paycheck wants you to learn. None gripe, none moan, no bitching. At the end of the class, they really like FCP and are very surprised at the myths that got busted, and the features they never knew about. I've never had anyone walk away not liking FCP and the OSX system.

So, if there's a job that requries FCP editing, learn FCP. If it requires Avid, learn Avid. Why complain? You're not the one signing the paychecks. You can hold a professional attitude and get the paycheck, or complain and stay unemployed.

Personally, I don't care what NLE any studio uses. But I can assure you that studios don't invest in NLE systems based on enthusiastic users. They look at the bottom line: what money goes into it, what money comes out of it.

If someone offered me a killer job editing on Avid for a ton of money, I'd learn Avid really well as fast as I could. But, I get paid to teach and produce with FCP. The film industry has rebuilt here in post-Katrina New Orleans, they were the first industry to return and get up and running full speed. I was overwhelmed with requests to learn FCP, prepare for FCP end user certifications, all cause these Hollywood studios that have facilities here, and the large local studios, lost a ton of people who moved away. They all need FCP editors. That's the cold, hard reality.

So if you come to N.O. and want to be an editor, no one cares how much you love anything, or what a good rant you can produce about it. They just want someone to walk in and be productive enough to justify a paycheck. Just happens to be on FCP systems.

I don't understand what the complaint is. That you can't find a job editing with your personal favorite NLE? It's a JOB, it's about your EMPLOYER'S wants, needs, and opinions, NOT yours!

FCP is a very powerful, flexable, customizable system, period. Studios use it due to the bottom line, not due to your personal opinion. Learn what you must to get the job you want. Or go find another job. If you don't like the party, leave, there's another one down the block.
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so let me ask you then. Say I had 3-4 years editing experience working with other programs and i just learned final cut pro a few weeks ago, would i get hired to be a final cut pro editor, or are most employers looking for years of experiece working WITH final cut?
 
ohh and I guess the title to the thread is misleading. I never said that I hated final cut pro...the program. I think its a great program that can do anything any other nle can do. Maybe I should rename the thread to "I Hate Final Cut Pro Snobs"
 
cecil995 said:
ohh and I guess the title to the thread is misleading. I never said that I hated final cut pro...the program. I think its a great program that can do anything any other nle can do. Maybe I should rename the thread to "I Hate Final Cut Pro Snobs"
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I hate Premier Pro snobs, I hate Avid snobs, I hate Vegas snobs. We all hate snobs. So, what's the complaint? Are you saying all FCP users are snobs? Are you saying more FCP users are snobs as opposed to, um, say, VEGAS? There's some evangelical folks for you! Why don't you have Vegas snobs? It really does seem like you have something against FCP. So what if some users are very excited about FCP? How does that degrade your personal life goals? I still don't get the point of this thread.

Again, I train people from other NLEs to use FCP for new jobs they've already been hired for. Different employers are looking for different things. Sometimes, if you say you're good with FCP, they take your word for it. Cause once you walk in, punch the clock, you better perform or get canned. What are all employers looking for? I don't know, I don't hire editors. I train them to use FCP. Most of these students do have some experience on FCP, just not enough to be competent their first day at a new job. After my class, they go home with the book and practice their butts off so they can be productive their first day on a new job. I don't get to see the hiring process they each go through. You'd have to go ask a lot of employers for that information.

A good editor is a good editor. But a good editor with a great NLE can produce better, faster. A master wood carver can make a great duck out of a hunk of pine and a butter knife. But give him some Cypress and a set of professional carving tools, and that same duck becomes a work of art.
 
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i have worked with several professional editors on several systems.. none of them were / are snobs about what system they are using. in fact, i have never actually met a 'final cut pro snob'. i think it is safe to say that most professionals don't gripe about platforms and get on with the job at hand.

Cecil you should rise above it and get on with it.
 
My two cents: FCP is a tool like any other. There are reasons to work with it or with something else.

I started with linear One-Inch and Beta SP editing, then worked on Harry (1990 or thereabouts), DFX Composium and D1, Flash Harry, Flint, Flame, Digibeta pre-read online, Fire. When I started my own shop, I bought the Avid DS (now called DS Nitris) in 1998. Loved that box. Just loved it. The most inspired platform ever. But it was costing me $70K every two years or less just to keep it current. Meanwhile, FCP was eating into the lower end of the market (like Avid did before around 1995 and later), bringing the price I could charge in this market downward. Classic disruptive technology (read The Innovator's Dilemma for a really good study on that!). FCP couldn't do what I needed it to yet, but it was affecting my business. And, it was on its way to become more capable.

To me, Avid Media Composer and FCP were low-end, inferior solutions. But, I like to pay the rent, and by the end of 2003, FCP became capable enough for me to decide to switch over. It took me a year and a half to be able to turn off the Nitris and sell it; what used to be one application for me now required FCP, AE, Combustion, and every plugin I could get. Definitely required a lot more unnecessary brainpower integrating everything into the workflow, but it was a good business decision. I chose FCP because I felt it had the momentum, and that Apple would be around long-term. Like an earlier post mentioned, I've had too many great platforms disappear from under me, so I wanted to choose something that would be around. Avid is good, and is still the standard for many markets, but I'm not sure how they will handle staying competitive. FCP can do anything the Avid can do (although Media Management is still rudimentary). I also use After Effects, Combustion, Maya, and the full FCP Studio. All of these (except Maya) started out as interesting but not usable solutions.

As Sam Kineson said to the Ethiopians in the 80's, "move to the food". Evolve or die. If your market has a bunch of Avids looking for drivers, learn Avid. If there's demand for FCP, learn that. Etc. etc. I know the Avid people were snobbish (which to me is hilarious and is usually based on ignorance), but I've never heard of FCP people being snobbish. Maybe I am just sheltered. They're all just tools (the software/ hardware platforms, not the Avid editors, haha). I would've killed for the functionality of what is bundled with the computers nowadays when I was starting out.

Final Cut seriously eroded what I can charge and perhaps I should be pissed at Steve Jobs for that. Instead, I've turned it into an advantage, lowering my costs and improving my bottom line. Sure was painful while I was still paying for the old stuff on lease, but hey, Sam Kineson was right. And if Apple loses momentum and gets shaky, it's on to whatever else makes sense. The skill set is the same, you just learn the new tool. The viewer doesn't care what platform you use.

Thanks for reading,

Verko
 
KOVAROVA said:
i have worked with several professional editors on several systems.. none of them were / are snobs about what system they are using. in fact, i have never actually met a 'final cut pro snob'. i think it is safe to say that most professionals don't gripe about platforms and get on with the job at hand.

Cecil you should rise above it and get on with it.
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KOVAROVA said:
yawn.. sit down at it for a couple of days learn it and don't worry about it. same goes for AVID. this platform/sofware jab is really old now. Jarred should charge $1 for every "i hate this or that thread"
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__________________

Geez, thanks for usefull insight. I can take constructive critisim but to just post something like this doesn't add to the conversation. If the thread doesn't interest you, then maybe you shouldn't post responses in it. Besides, there many people here than see the point I am trying to make.
 
Loki said:
it doesn't sound like you've ever met an editor before.... more like you've met some stupid mac users.

If you know how to use FCP you basically know how to use any NLE.. same goes if you know AVID.. you can pretty much use any NLE out there. Tools don't make you an editor.
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taking into consideration that I work for a fairly well known network in canada and that I've worked for a few others I find this statement just a bit absurd. Fact is when my old station switched from AVID to FCP due to budget constraints none of the old editors had any trouble migrating. But when the station bought a massive AVID unit for high end (commercial) editing the FCP people that had nothing but FCP training and had been hired on after the migration had a hard time understanding the AVID system. One of them actually told me he didn't understand the operating system and though it was "stupid". he had never worked on anything but a mac

which brings up an interesting point: most pc users have some rudementary understanding of how a computer works. in my experience many mac users don't and they are totally lost when their gui doesn't tell them what to do.

it's true tools don't make you an editor. which is why this thread was started to begin with: more and more people ask specifically for FCP editors rather than editors proving like someone said earlier in the thread that they don't understand the video editing world. Thus my friend you proved my point. thank you.
 
Cecil,

It's funny but in some foriegn countries (don't want to name names) they are die hard fans of Media 100 and Premiere. I mention Final Cut Pro, and they looked at me funny. As if their system is better. I didn't argue, I just told them that it's another option...

Final Cut works because of the PACKAGE: Shake, Pro Tools, Soundtrack, whatever.

Premiere and Vegas works because of the package: AE7, Audition, Encore, Fusion 5, whatever.

Avid -- I have never used. But I don't mind learning.

I kinda understand your rant about how everything is... "WANTED FINAL CUT PRO OR AVID EDITOR." Not just "WANTED FILM/VIDEO EDITOR. But u must understand, the employer that is doing the hiring has in his/her diposal those NLE's. And vice versue with those foreign countries that want just Media 100 or Premiere editors.

The ONLY thing I will agree with you...is those ads on Craig's List or what not, where a newbie producer, director wants a Final Cut Pro editor because he thinks (or was probably told by someone) that's the best NLE system to work on...PERIOD. That's just wrong.

But then again, you pay for what you want. And you learn to get what you need.
 
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