I can afford a mixer/pre-amp OR a recorder...

L

Lee Saxon

Well-known member
I'm a total noob to filmmaking and I'm just starting to move up to halfway-decent equipment.
For now I have around $600 to spend.

I've been recording Rode NTG-2 > Juicedlink CX211 > 7D

Would I be better off getting a recorder such as the Marantz PMD661 or getting a better pre-amp/mixer such as the MixPre and continuing to record to camera?
 
I just don't think you'll get "magic" audio from the Canon, ever - serviceable yes, maybe you can even defeat some of the silly noise floor - but things like sparkle, warmth, thump... from a really beautifully breathy whispered female dialogue to a deep authoritarian male voice... you need quality preamps and conversion.

Sounds like you have phantom power covered; I'd really consider a good field recorder, even a Zoom HN4 or Tascam DR-100 is well within your range. A mixer may give you more channels or actually useful limiting, but you'll still be capturing to a so-so medium. Going with the smaller recorders could also leave you a few bucks for a great wireless (maybe a used Sennheiser G2, fabulous) or a more suitable indoor mic than the Rhode... or something like the Rhode blimp or similar for outdoors.

I'm not a location sound pro, but for the last few years I've been severely focused on audio mixing, and working with well recorded files that have that "sheen" to the highs and some real presence to the lows is really magical.
 
In your shoes I think I'd sell the Juicedlink to get your budget up in the $700+ range and then perhaps go with a MixPre and and H1 / DR07 or maybe a DV Promix3 and a slightly better recorder.
 
+1 on the last two suggestions. This is a little over your budget, but maybe if you sold the juicedlink, consider a SD Mixpre and a Tascam DR100 which would be a great combo at about $950.

Grant
 
The main issue I see is that the 7D doesn't allow you to turn off the AGC, so you will need a recorder to get your audio to be acceptable in any professional level.
 
Okay everyone agrees I shouldn't record to camera, I'll scratch that off the list.

The question then is between 'my Juicedlink -> good recorder' or 'nice mixer -> bargain recorder'...
 
You could try the JuicedLink with a so-so recorder like the DR-100 or H4N, and if that isn't good enough for your work flow (no limiters or low-cut on the JuicedLink) go for the MixPre, which sounds great. The MixPre is only Line Level, and does not attach to the bottom of a camera. So you may just like the JuicedLink for that ability so you can put it on your camera when you just want to do simple recordings. Also the JuicedLink is switchable between Line & Mic level. The 7D is a mic level device. With the JL you won't need an attenuating cable for use with the 7D. So it seems prudent to just get the recorder now and try it out with the JuicedLink.

I personally have the DR-680, which has really nice pres, and can record in 24bit (that allows you to record lower levels with less noise when you turn those levels back up in post). I, however, have a professional video camera (EX1) and get great audio going straight into that for most things like dialogue. If I were making a movie I would use my MixPre feeding my DR-680, and use the camera audio only for reference. It all depends on the job, and to have an array of options is the goal so you can adapt your setup to the challenges a particular shoot presents.
 
I would by a "good" recorder then. Something like the Fostex FR-2LE CF which is around 600.

It's not the best of the best...But I think it's better then the on camera sound.
 
I can afford more than the DR-100/H4N, but the DR-680 would be a stretch.

Looks like it's PMD661 or FR2-LE...

Then start saving for a MixPre and a hyper.
 
Then there's the Apogee Mini-Me - 2 channels of Apogee digital conversion and a very clean & pristine 2-channel pre with phantom - and it takes about any battery you can stick on it in the 7-16v range.

I've been using one as my main protools converter for some time, and just realized the little M-Audio recorder has SPDIF in... man, that could be a great sounding field rig. Apogee pres & conversion, the M-Audio (like $169) just records the bits to CF. Really thinking about that one...
 
Michael Carter said:
Then there's the Apogee Mini-Me - 2 channels of Apogee digital conversion and a very clean & pristine 2-channel pre with phantom - and it takes about any battery you can stick on it in the 7-16v range.

I've been using one as my main protools converter for some time, and just realized the little M-Audio recorder has SPDIF in... man, that could be a great sounding field rig. Apogee pres & conversion, the M-Audio (like $169) just records the bits to CF. Really thinking about that one...
Click to expand...
Yeah, but now you are talking about some serious money, more than just a couple of hundred dollars.
 
While I have no experience with the MixPre, I have yet to meet anyone who didn't love it, and you could combine that with a cheaper recorder (such as the H4N) to get great results. The built in limiters are a great feature, and you won't ever have to worry about whether or not it is "good enough", because unless you are working on a multi million dollar feature film, it will be good enough.
 
If you're going to record audio with a single microphone for the foreseeable future, you might also consider the Sound Devices MM-1. It has the exact same hardware as the MixPre, but with only one XLR input instead of two. It has headphone monitoring like the MixPre, but doesn't have the meters except a single LED to indicate clipping. However, you'd probably be better off checking the meters on the digital recorder or on any camera you're recording into (a problem for the 7D obviously) since that's the final sound you're getting. So you'd get the same audio quality as the MixPre but with only one XLR input and at the more budget-friendly price of $380. With your remaining budget, you could purchase a digital recorder.

I've recently acquired the MM-1 and I record directly into my Canon 60D since it has manual levels.

Here is a quick test I made comparing the sound of the 60D's internal mic and the auto setting to the manual audio being fed into the camera by the Sound Devices MM-1 powering an Audio-Technica 875R mic:

http://vimeo.com/18491643

That said, the JuicedLink does pretty well against even the MixPre in the sound tests I've heard. It's a good product by most accounts.
 
markblasco said:
Yeah, but now you are talking about some serious money, more than just a couple of hundred dollars.
Click to expand...

Well, the Mini-Me was discontinued a while back, but you can find used ones for $500 & up; but.. if you're in a situation where you record a lot of post stuff, do scoring or music (much of my week) it's really cool to have two pristine preamp channels with great conversion and really transparent limiting (and USB or Firewire options)... I'd never even thought about the portability of the thing... until I sold my DVX and found myself with no good location sound options. I haven't seen a similar product & have no idea why it was discontinued.

But the damn thing sounds so sparkly & lush, I really don't know about subjecting it to the location treatment...
 
The main thing is, you should be thinking multichannel, so whether it is four or eight, with the option for just two, of course, if you are in a hurry, the 680 looks very good.
You can always add a true high-end front end to the 680, such as the Grace Audio, or a pair of digital preamps, which sound amazing, like the RME FF400, later on down the line.
Meanwhile, the built in pres and A/D on the Tascam will be fine.
 
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