Hvx200a

The 'a' had a lot of new features, including "squeeze" mode, slow shutter speeds, gain and autofocus in progressive modes, lots of new menu items like detail coring and v-detail-level and more cinegamma modes... in The DVX Book I detailed the differences but I'm on the road now and can't look it up. I think there were about 23 changes from the 100 to the 100A, and another 19 or so from the 100A to the 100B.

But that has no bearing on whether there will or will not be a forthcoming HVX200a.
 
Barry_Green said:
The 'a' had a lot of new features, including "squeeze" mode, slow shutter speeds, gain and autofocus in progressive modes, lots of new menu items like detail coring and v-detail-level and more cinegamma modes... in The DVX Book I detailed the differences but I'm on the road now and can't look it up. I think there were about 23 changes from the 100 to the 100A, and another 19 or so from the 100A to the 100B.

But that has no bearing on whether there will or will not be a forthcoming HVX200a.
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The "a" had so many important improvements, that I sold my original DVX to get one. Specially for the slow shutter option.

Picture wise, however, it was inferior to the Original one. The "original dvx cinegamma" was the best looking one (subjective, of course). And it was a less noisy camera than the dvx100a.

I would really like to try out a 100b just for comparison.

The HVX, however, is just plain excelent. All my ranting is for a worthy upgrade to this excelent camera: Up the sensitivity and CCD size, and just a little bit on the resolution to take full advantage of the dvcpro HD codec, and I'll be there, again.
 
Theoretically, you know what would be cool....

Full on 1280x720 chips with pixel shift ala the HPX2000..... This way, 1/2 chips can have a significant boost in resolution from the dual Pixel shift 960x540's, but still have big enough pixels for some serious low light sensitivity...... The HPX2000 is quite amazing, its 1080p looks GREAT.
 
filmguy123 said:
Is it likely the HVX200a would support AVC-HD as a recording format as well, so users would have the choice?
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I don't believe you will see that codec in a sub $10,000.00 camera soon although who knows? We never thought we'd see DVCProHD in a $5,000.00 camera either.

Dan
 
filmguy123 said:
Puredrifting - *NOT* AVC-Intra. I'm talking about AVC-HD, the long-GOP format.
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Ahh, didn't read carefully. Are you sure you would want that? I guess it would be a nice option for event shooters but that codec is a nightmare to edit in.

Since the new DVX-100 replacement uses that codec exclusively, it will interesting to see if they put it into the bigger brother.

Dan
 
I'd want it for sure; great for when you need more space, or long event coverage. I would also like the option to record to SDHC.

A nightmare to edit in? That's what ProRes is for!
 
I've tested a couple of cams with AVCHD.

It isn't much fun. And of course ProRes requires a 1 to 1 transcode, which takes time. It isn't simply a file copy.

It also requires an Intel Mac.

If there is any AVC, it would have to be Intra for me.

And at a minimum of 18-20 mbps.

I'm waiting to evaluate the HDC-SD9: 1080/24p with 3 CCDs and a global shutter as a B roll to the HVX200
 
Here are my predictions for the future. Please don't set me on fire and kill my family.

1. I think the HVX200a will be the same as the HVX200. It will be an extensive software update with better menus, and changes in the DSP to improve noise in high dynamic range imaging, like cine-likeD. They used linux. Linux is extremely powerful, and is used in lieu of hardware controls in many instances. This is a generalization yes, but true to my experience. The price will be cut by a moderate sum, and possibly better promotions. They will not increase the size of the imagers because they don't have to, and may not have the room with the tape deck. For the market the HVX200 will fulfill for the next couple of years, the tape deck and format versatility will be the main selling point, and the existing imagers are plenty good enough.

2. A new product will be introduced with three 1/2inch CCDs not CMOS. Say an HPX250. They will ditch the tape deck to make room for the beefier chips, and the price will be higher. The form factor will be the same, and priced to compete with the EX1. Except this will not have rolling shutter issues, and will benefit from DVCPRO HD. It will NOT have AVC-intra. Maybe AVC-long gop... The chips will have a moderate pixel count increase. Maybe 1280 x 720, with pixel shift to get to 1920 x 1080. The highest priority will be to retain the filmic look and quality we all love about our HVX200s. They will not use CMOS chips because of the rolling shutter issues, and it will be a good marketing distinction between panny and sony.

So we will be left with the DVX100, the HMC-150, the HVX200a at a slightly lower price, and the HPX(?)250 concentrating on high def functionality.

I think the HVX200 will be left alone because it still, after all this time, is the only camera in it's price range (or any range) to film in SO MANY FORMATS! As Adam Wilt points out it has the cross-over cam title right now, and will continue. Also, we've seen panasonic compartmentalize its product lines lately rather than minor hardware updates to existing products.

I'm likening this simply to how they handled the DVX/HMC thing. They kept the DVX because it's classic, awesome and still has a market, updated it, lowered the price, and brought out a successor for the new world of high def video.

I think they will do the same for the HVX.

I also think there will be a new feature aimed solely towards indie filmmakers in the new theoretical cam. Something to make it appealing over the promise of the Scarlet, and further define panny as "the filmmaker's" video cam, over the sony, "the videographer's" cam. I wouldn't be surprised if it was further advances in color, as this has always been the panny advantage IMO.

I think a good feature would be a raw workflow with a new P2 view app for digital developing, which then exports to DVCPRO HD for editing.

Do I get a cookie if I turn out to be right?
 
I really hope you are right about the HPX250 prediction, that would be really cool and will kill the EX-1 once and forever :kali: just kidding
 
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Hmm... I believe you're on the money in a)

As for the b), it would be great...But would mean a non-announcement at NAB, and maybe only something next year.

While I do like what you wrote, I would still like to see something this year that could theoreticaly compete with a (no issue one!) EX1 in therms of dinamic range/ DOF / Low light capabilities and resolution.

Seems like we'll only get a minor update on the HVX at NAB. So don't get your hopes up...
 
Panasonic at NAB this April is going to show us the HVX200a.
Probably will not be released until Nov or Dec 2008.
 
So a few weeks before the NAB 2008. I hope we will not be dissapointed by Panasonic and there will be no news about an/update/upgrade of the HVX200 at the end of this year. If there will be something new it will be a nice Christmass present :laugh:

If there will not be any anouncement at all I will go for the HPX500 if my financial postion (shares) improve.
 
Well, that's an interesting question. First of all, presuming that we're talking about an HVX200A and not a new model (like an HVX250 with half-inch chips, or an HVX300 with AVC-Intra, or some other major revision that makes it actually into an entirely different camera), and second of all, presuming that there actually *is* an HVX200A at all, then I'd say the odds of it being available immediately upon announcement are actually very good.

Historically, manufacturers don't seem to announce mid-term revisions before they're available. Apparently they don't want to disrupt the existing supply chain, so when it's an upgrade to an existing model it pretty much slips into the stream unannounced. An exception was the DVX100B, when we actually did hear about it before release, but that apparently was due to the RoHS stuff they had to change.

A new model, like when the HVX200 was introduced, might be announced months and months before it's available. But an updated model might be available the instant it's announced, or shortly thereafter.

I'm thinking the logic is: "why would I want to buy a DVX100, when I know there's a DVX100A coming out?" Whereas with the HVX200, which didn't compete with their own DVX100, that they're free to announce 9 months ahead of its introduction. Or like with the HMC150 -- that's a new model that doesn't compete with the HVX, so we found out about it months ago. But if there is an actual HVX200A, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if we didn't hear one word about it before it's actually available, and (accordingly) I wouldn't be surprised if it was available immediately when we first hear about it.
 
Sounds great, but...

Sounds great, but...

The HPX250 sounds like a great idea but I doubt Panny will come out with it. It will eat into sales of the HPX500. Check out the category leaders that Panny has now. DVX100, HVX200, HPX500. These cams are very different from each other. Their prices are also a couple of thousand dollars apart.

If anything, we might see a huge price reduction on the HPX500 putting it into the 7,000 - 8,000 range to compete with the EX1. Now THAT would kill the EX1. And I would have to kill myself because I just bought an EX1. :)
 
menchifus said:
The HPX250 sounds like a great idea but I doubt Panny will come out with it. It will eat into sales of the HPX500. Check out the category leaders that Panny has now. DVX100, HVX200, HPX500. These cams are very different from each other. Their prices are also a couple of thousand dollars apart.

If anything, we might see a huge price reduction on the HPX500 putting it into the 7,000 - 8,000 range to compete with the EX1. Now THAT would kill the EX1. And I would have to kill myself because I just bought an EX1. :)
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No it wont eat in to HPX500 sales.

The HPX500 is a complete class above the prosumer cameras.

The HVX200 is a Toyota camry. GREAT car. The HPX500 is a S500 Mercedes. The "hpx250" class camera (and the EX1 for that matter) are BMW 5 series cars. they are better than a camry, but not in the same class as a S500. People that are gonna buy an S500 are gonna buy an S500. the wont look and say, oh hey, BMW makes a car thats half way in between the camry and the car i need ( like anyone needs a S500 but just for arguments sake). They wont consider it. People who would be stretching to buy the S500 may be interested, but the reality is people who need the better tool will buy the better tool.
 
I just got a HVX200 mine was coded "HVX200PJu" (I don't think a 200a will be announced.) They'll just fix bugs and add revisions to this one.
 
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