HVX200 editing. Performance vs.Cost. Mac or PC?

[David Saraceno]

thanks for clarifying.

i'd love to build my own PC based upon what you've told me.

and then use Edius Broadcast to edit natively.

My issue with PCs is the lack of native support for DVCProHD outside the NLE. For example how do you encode Edius Output HD to SD m2v/mpeg2?

 

[Aron Peterson]

lol, no you misunderstood. I didn´t buy it for 600. It´s what it would cost now to build it with the specs I run right now (3.06Ghz, 1GB RAM, FX5700grfx).

I actually was surprised when I started with Edius that it handles 720p so easily with my two year old box. But 1080 it slows due to lack of CPU and RAM. So Core2Duo, 2GB-RAM here I come.

Your argument against Macs fell apart right there. My two year old Mac has a wimpy 1.5Ghz G4 with 768MB memory and a Geforce 5200 GPU. All the hardware is slower than what you have and yet I can edit 1080p in real time. Apple really knows how to optimise software to take full advantage of hardware. That's why every operating system and software update has just made my machine faster and faster. I never ever got that when I used Windows (which I will never touch again). I have never ever had a crash since OS 10.0 (my ISP provided unstable drivers for a USB DSL modem).

Take a gander at this factoid: Most HVX200 users are Mac and FCP users. Only a small minority report problems.

And for $600 you could get a dual core Mac mini which will be faster than your current set up and run Windows if you need to. Two computers for $600 can't be bad. That is, if you're willing to spend another $300 on Vista. That's twice the price you'll pay for OS X Leopard.

 

[David Saraceno]

Take a gander at this factoid: Most HVX200 users are Mac and FCP users. Only a small majority report problems.

And for $600 you could get a dual core Mac mini which will be faster than your current set up and run Windows if you need to. Two computers for $600 can't be bad. That is, if you're willing to spend another $300 on Vista. That's twice the price you'll pay for OS X Leopard.

This is not a bad idea given that the import capabilities of p2 cards dispense with the need to create a second firewire bus.

Apple and Panasonic need to get their stars in line.

Panasonic has to address the lack of DVCProHD support on PCs.

But I have to say that this isn't the place that people report no problems.

In my view Studio on a Mac is the best integrated suite out there.

Come NAB, it is likely that many of the issues set forth on the software side will be addressed.

Or at least I hope.

 

[Aron Peterson]

It's very likely FCP6 will be released this year alongside Leopard in order to support the new features of the OS.

 

[Justyn]

That article and look of Vista is laughable. I saw the macworld conference when they compared the items side by side with the Mac OS... They ain't even disguising how much they are ripping off the OS.


I do agree with the PC people who build and use their PCs as only editing Pro solutions and delete the unnecessary garbage that comes on the PC.. which is substantial... They also wouldn't be inclined to use their editing station to go online as they will get a virus and spywear and every other obnoxious threat that Mac people are completely safe from... I know that hackers say that there isn't enough Macs to go out and inflict them... not enough of a marketshare, but what I say is that you or any other hacker could create a Mac based virus, then you'd win a million dollars. In over 10 years no one has collected the price as there's never ever been one ever recorded. Theoretically it's possible...

So you get a comp that you can't even enjoy the joys of dvxuser.. that's whack.. Besides I'm running window XP on my Mac right now and never has a windows system been so repsonsive and shoot stuff actually works.


I've done 10 webcasts using the free windows media encoder on the macbook without problem.. That was NEVER ever the case before on the PC I was using.. Besides, who wants to drive around in something as aesthetically unpleasing..


The pissing match with the PC/MAC debate rages on... just love it..
/*

 

[Barry_Green]

My issue with PCs is the lack of native support for DVCProHD outside the NLE. For example how do you encode Edius Output HD to SD m2v/mpeg2?

You run the export tool (ProCoder) right from inside EDIUS.

 

[David Saraceno]

You run the export tool (ProCoder) right from inside EDIUS.

I saw that Barry.

But I'm comparing Cinema Craft Basic, which requires an export to 8-bit uncompressed, won't scale, and doesn't handle true progressive.

Output is fabulous though

 

[David Jimerson]

I do agree with the PC people who build and use their PCs as only editing Pro solutions and delete the unnecessary garbage that comes on the PC.. which is substantial...

If you build your own, you control everything that goes onto it. No need to delete anything.

They also wouldn't be inclined to use their editing station to go online as they will get a virus and spywear and every other obnoxious threat that Mac people are completely safe from...

Not if you're halfway careful. I go online with mine -- without virus protection software -- and I don't get viruses. All you have to do is pay attention to what you're doing . . . and don't be stupid about what sites you visit. You know what I'm talking about.

I know that hackers say that there isn't enough Macs to go out and inflict them... not enough of a marketshare, but what I say is that you or any other hacker could create a Mac based virus, then you'd win a million dollars. In over 10 years no one has collected the price as there's never ever been one ever recorded. Theoretically it's possible...

That is patently untrue. Just type "viruses on a Mac" into Google. Heck, you can even listen to an NPR story from a year ago talking about two.

So you get a comp that you can't even enjoy the joys of dvxuser.. that's whack..

Doing it right now.

Besides I'm running window XP on my Mac right now and never has a windows system been so repsonsive and shoot stuff actually works.

That's just fanboy stuff.

The pissing match with the PC/MAC debate ... just love it..
/*

Looks that way.

 

[DC]

LOL, this is funny. I think you and Justyn are great guys. But when it comes to computers, I gotta agree with David.

I think Macs are cool machines. I think PC's are cool too, but you gotta know how to use them. And I'm talking just some basic, fundamental computer knowledge while keeping some easy maintenance habits (i.e. keeping malware definitions up-to-date and avoiding the unmentionable and obvious sites).

Despite what the Mac ads want you to believe, I run everything entirely on PC's and it all works just dandy. I'm not trying to keep the platform war going, but I am offering my opinions and testifying to my own personal experiences with PC's. This is mostly for people who are thinking of getting a PC for whatever reason but are getting scared away by the "Hi, I'm a PC and I'm a Mac" ads. Don't be! I mean, there is some truth to what they're saying but most of it is highly exaggerated. It's advertising, folks! Do the hardcore research and get what works best for you!

Just type "viruses on a Mac" into Google. Heck, you can even listen to an NPR story from a year ago talking about two.

[SIZE=-1]
Something rare has happened to the Mac OSX operating system. It's been attacked by a virus, as NPR Adam Davidson reports:

[/SIZE] February 20, 2006 · Two viruses written for the Mac OS X operating system appeared recently, the first ones to appear on the Mac in years. Virus writers tend to focus on the vastly more popular Windows operating system. While surprising, neither of the two viruses is particularly dangerous.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5224924

 

[David Saraceno]

That is patently untrue. Just type "viruses on a Mac" into Google. Heck, you can even listen to an NPR story from a year ago talking about two.

David David David

Please, you sound like Bill Gates. "A Mac is broken into every day and the hacker gains complete control of the Mac." Gates essentially stated that on cNet.

He shortly will be living in Las Vegas and growing 15-inch fingernails.

I don't know what you are smoking, but if you believe for a second that OS X has virus issues to any degree or comparison to a Wintel, then what you are smoking should be illegal or free.



What you have represented is pure propaganda.

 

[David Jimerson]

David David David

As a fellow former attorney, surely you should appreciate keeping things within the scope of questioning, right?

Our young friend Justyn said:

In over 10 years no one has collected the price as there's never ever been one ever recorded.

But . . . there has. :beer:

David David David

Please, you sound like Bill Gates. "A Mac is broken into every day and the hacker gains complete control of the Mac." Gates essentially stated that on cNet.

He shortly will be living in Las Vegas and growing 15-inch fingernails.

I don't what you are smoking, but if ypu believe for a second that OS X has virus issues to any degree, then what you are smoking should be illegal or free.



There is no way the OS X Macs have a problem that approaches in any manner the issue with PCs and viruses and malware.

What you have represented is pure propaganda.

 

[David Saraceno]

Hey, I am an ex attorney.

I don't care what the question is.

I care what the answer is.



OS 9 had issues, and I misread the statement.

OS X really hasn't anything to speak of.

If nothing else, go Mac so you don't have to worry about going to porn sites.

 

[THoff]

I saw that Barry.

But I'm comparing Cinema Craft Basic, which requires an export to 8-bit uncompressed, won't scale, and doesn't handle true progressive.

Output is fabulous though

Edius can render uncompressed 8-bit video in your choice of color spaces if you really need it.

Output to SD MPEG2 for DVDs from inside Edius (using Procoder Express for Edius) is actually quite good. You can get even better quality using the full Procoder 2.0, and Procoder 3.0 with AC3, 5.1 Dolby Digital, H.264, AVCHD support etc. has been announced and should be out around NAB.

 

[David Jimerson]

Hey, I am an ex attorney.

I don't care what the question is.

I care what the answer is.

That's OK -- I'll preserve every issue for appeal you wanna hand me.

OS 9 had issues, and I misread the statement.

You missed two evers and a never?

OS X really hasn't anything to speak of.

It has had few recorded problems, and nothing to the scale of Windows.

If nothing else, go Mac so you don't have to worry about going to porn sites.

I don't go to them anyway. But I actually do plan to do something along those lines in the near future . . . for Internet and e-mail . . . and leave my trusty, screaming box for when I need to do some real work. :beer:

 

[David Saraceno]

You missed two evers and a never?

I miss a lot these days, David

Alot.

I luckily have a great spouse who is good at grounding me in reality.

She also lets me indulgence in a second career.

Not as lucrative as the first, but more rewarding.

 

[David Jimerson]

I miss a lot these days, David

Alot.

I luckily have a great spouse who is good at grounding me in reality.

She also lets me indulgence in a second career.

Not as lucrative as the first, but more rewarding.

Oh, I hear that!

 

[erniediaz]

Talking about computer based edit/graphics systems, I have a vast experience (about 16 years).

I use to compare cost/benefit/obsolescence time/productivity. (not brands)

So, believe me, buy / build a system that you can easy upgrade/dispose every 12-16 months.

I know people wich is still using media 100 or video cube because 10 or 12 years ago, they invest several hundred thousand dollars on those devices.

I upgrade my systems every 10-12 months and build a brand new system every couple of years, donating the rejected to schools.

I invest about US$ 20.000/year in edit/graphics stations and get about US$ 60.000

period!

 

[Al McGibbon]

I'm new to this site and it is fantastic for someone like me trying to bring themselves up the curve.

I'm hoping someone who edits HVX on Mac can help me. I have read the preceding PC Vs Mac debate but remain confused.

I bought a fully optioned MacBook Pro late last year in Australia for just under AU$5K to run FCP and be compatible with my G5.

I am looking to buy a HD camera and my research on the HVX and some previous experience with the DVX100A is steering me clearly in the direction of the HVX and P2 technology. Today I realised that my MBP doesn't have a PCMCIA slot but has an Express Card 34 slot.

I'm a little concerned with some of the apparent flaws in compatibility between Panasonic and Apple I have read in this thread. I've already laid out big for the MBP but I am still keen to buy the HVX with the 8GB card which has just been offered in Australia. I don't want to buy another brand of camera.

Could someone please explain if and how to download P2 footage directly into my MBP and FCP for editing? Do I have to purchase another plug-in? I can't afford the Firestore or P2 store at the moment but will have to rely on dowloading my 8GB card.

Thanks heaps.

 

[Barry_Green]

You don't need any other software or hardware. You could use the HVX itself as a card reader, through its 1394 port.

Since you would currently only have the one card, this would be a cheap/easy/free way to do it with no drawbacks.

Once you get another card, you'd probably want to look into some way to offload a card to your computer while still recording in-camera to your other card. Within a few weeks an adapter is supposed to arrive on the market that is designed for exactly that purpose.

Regarding file reliability -- let me stress that not all mac users are encountering it. The vast majority of HVX users are using the Mac. The vast majority of HVX users also appear to have no problem using their footage. It is only a small minority that are having problems. Whether you would fall into that minority or not is, of course, impossible to tell, but you can probably increase your odds of success by keeping your system as "clean" as possible (not using it for internet surfing, no virus checker or firewall software, no TSR programs, etc).

 

[pmpworks]

no virus checker or firewall software, no TSR programs, etc).

good idea, that's the way I run my mac. Although I do surf the internet with it,still no probs.