HVX200 editing. Performance vs.Cost. Mac or PC?

DC said:
Hi David,So my point is this:

I know why I use a PC and why I stick with it. It works for me - it suits my needs. I have no problem with people who feel the same way about a Mac. Whatever tools work best for you, use them.
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I run an XP box and a MacPro.

I've running Macs and Windows for years. The XP interface, at least to me, is counterintuitive.

I'm not affected by the p2 import problem, and suspect few are.

My point is "ease of use" is relative to something else that you need to have a current experience with.
 
David S. said:
I run an XP box and a MacPro. I've running Macs and Windows for years. The XP interface, at least to me, is counterintuitive.
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Excellent. You are certainly entitled to that opinion.


David S. said:
I'm not affected by the p2 import problem, and suspect few are.
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Glad to hear. Some are not so fortunate. :(


David S. said:
My point is that without a current reference, you can't assess "ease of use" when the thread deals with a comparison between Macs and PCs.
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Understood. I was responding to Barry's post below. I didn't mean it as a direct PC-Mac comparison. I simply find Windows XP easy to use and that's one of the main reasons why I use it. Sorry if I confused anyone.

Barry_Green said:
. . . It's interesting that both "camps" are saying basically the same thing: reliability is absolutely paramount. Mac users are saying that the MacOS is more reliable than Windows, PC users are saying the P2 workflow is more reliable on Windows. But both are offering "more reliable" as their reason... fascinating.
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DC said:
Reliabilty is number 1 for me too. And especially for my HVX200 workflow investment.

A close second is software selection.

Ease-of-use and customability is right up there too.

So for me, PC is the clear choice.
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No problem.

I didn't think that you were comparing.

If you were, I was hoping the comparison was current to current.

However, how do all you PC users deal with the whole malware, spyware, virus thing?

It would drive me crazy.
 
David S. said:
However, how do all you PC users deal with the whole malware, spyware, virus thing? It would drive me crazy.
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Oh, I'm sure it would. It would drive ME crazy being constantly infected.

The key is a few simple steps of preventative maintenance. Like fluid checks/changes in an automobile.

If you run a good combo of anti-malware programs (and a hardware firewall with a router), you'll be fine. Just keep the definitions up-to-date, scan once in awhile and grab Microsoft's security patches as they're released.

For me, the FREE winning combo is:

AVG Anti-Virus (detects and kills viruses; excellent and with small footprint)
AVG Anti-Spyware (detects and kills spyware; paid version has resident shield)
Windows Defender (detects and kills spyware)
Spybot - Search & Destroy (detects, prevents and kills spyware)
Spywareblaster (prevents spyware)
Ad-aware (detects and kills spyware)

You see, no one program is good enough. You really should use a combination of them to remain protected.

Also, steer clear of porn and other "suspect" sites, especially in places like Russia. :-Dum(DBG):

Download only from trusted sources and when in doubt, pass through a virus scan.

It may sound complicated but it's actually very easy and consumes little time.
 
After being a PC user for 25 years, I think I'm going to buy my first Mac in a couple of months...I've had a computer consulting company for about 10 years, and it is so rare for us to get Mac calls, that I never had a reason to purchasing a mac...other than they looked cool...ha.

The MXF issue is a bummer, but it seems that the "industry standard" is Final Cut Pro...I base this off of which NLE is it easier to find training for? ...art schools, community colleges, state colleges, books, DVD series (total training and lynda.com), etc...they got a super megga buncha lotta training out there for FCP...

I'll let you guys know how it goes when I finally make the jump!

BTW...doesn't it make sense that Edius can do something that FCP can't? As of *right now* (and for the past several months), Edius had no choice...they *had* to offer the MXF support since they aren't the industry leader.

Likewise, there was/is no reason for FCP to support MXF...why? they were the big dogs...they can do what they want.

I'm obviously being facetious, but it is somewhat true...the fat dog is always slow to market because they can afford to be for awhile, and that gives the small guys the sliver of opportunity they need to climb up the chain.

Patience grasshopper...
 
David S. said:
However, how do all you PC users deal with the whole malware, spyware, virus thing?
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I told you, above. My sole virus protection program consists of three words: don't be stupid.

I've been virus-free for many years using only that program.
 
spikeman256 said:
Edius had no choice...they *had* to offer the MXF support since they aren't the industry leader.

Likewise, there was/is no reason for FCP to support MXF...why? they were the big dogs...they can do what they want.
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You summed up exactly why I'm not going FCP anytime soon. I'd rather work with a company that responds to my needs than one that feels like it doesn't have to!

Unless FCP adds native MXF. If they do, that would be very tempting.
 
I don't think Canopus/Thompson/Grass Valley decided to implement P2/MXF support merely to grab the scraps that Apple and Adobe left on the table.

They have made a strategic decision to try to support as many editing formats as possible in a transparent manner, even if those formats aren't very popular. They have not and never will be targeting consumers and home movie producers. That is underscored by their hardware-based copy protection, editing boards, turnkey editing workstations, and -- gasp! -- HD cameras.

P2/MXF are for professionals, consumers have no need for metadata and wouldn't know what it was if it bit them on the nose. It's not surprising that solutions that most people have never heard of would implement support for it first before it trickles down to more popular programs.
 
I hear you Thoff...although FCP itself isn't a home user product, Apple is *all* about the consumer...

They make too much money from ipods...no surprise they want to put more focus towards that stuff vs. FCP.
 
And let's not forget that FCP's support for P2/MXF is actually quite good. The only thing it lacks is native support, and that like requires a major architectural change given that as of today, it wants to convert everything to QuickTime.

FCP also has more creative tools and a far more intuitive user interface than Edius. It really is an excellent choice, and I'm not surprised that it is as popular as it is.

I'm a PC guy, and I had looked at Edius two years ago before I ever knew about the HVX. It wasn't for me then, but with the purchase of the camera, it became the clear choice. While other editing solutions exist now, I'm very happy with Edius, and given the company behind it, I have no doubt that the program will continue to improve.
 
Computers are consumerable items.. buy both and use what's best for any given job... FCP is good but not prefect... Avid is good but not prefect.. etc...

Personally I use FCP for ingest and realtime playback then port to the PC for After Effects finishing...

I don't like compressor on the Mac and use ProCoder on the PC...

I just can't really see how you can be platform specific these days... some things are just better on the Mac and others on the PC...

Cheers
 
Interesting post. As far as the post it was price vs. performance.

I'm interested in knowing how many streams of HD720 and HD1080 from the HVX you can edit in REAL TIME in the fastest Mac Pro (intel based) with Final Cut Pro (latest version) and how much that system costs.

And I mean how many streams with at least 1 filter, color corrected, transitions, titles etc.... These things take processing time, and I wonder how much you can really do in real time.

Also how long did it take to ingest the video. 1min took 2min??? etc.. (as barry said you have to bring it to the computer and the convert it to quicktime?? am I wrong here??)

And then I'd like to compare that to a built system on the PC side using Edius BP with the fastest home built computer (or even the fastest dell) I mean either 2 processor Quad core Xeon (for a total of 8 physical processors) or 4 processors Dual Core (for a total of 8 physical processors.) And how much that system would cost.

I'm a believer that computers are tools, you like A and I like B. So what? But time is money, and $1 is $1 to both you and me. And if PC system cost 4k more, but it saves me 40hrs of waiting at $100/per hour, you have just broken even. And have probably had a better experience not having to wait, and have probably tried different things that you would not have had you not had the time, and the final product might benefit from this.

Just my 2cents.
 
siniarch said:
I'm interested in knowing how many streams of HD720 and HD1080 from the HVX you can edit in REAL TIME in the fastest Mac Pro (intel based) with Final Cut Pro (latest version) and how much that system costs.
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Last year at NAB Apple was saying 11 streams of high-def in real time on the Quad G5. That number might be higher on the Mac Pro.

Also how long did it take to ingest the video. 1min took 2min??? etc.. (as barry said you have to bring it to the computer and the convert it to quicktime?? am I wrong here??)
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Depends on what format. For 1080 it could be 1 minute per 1 minute. For 720/24pN it might be five minutes of footage get ingested/converted in two minutes of realtime.
 
Drcoffee said:
Hi,

My work has a new HVX200 and I really want to make the most out of it (at weekends :) )

Can anyone help me on the current best cost effective set up for editing HVX200 footage. Im prepared to build my own with lets say £2000 max for the system (excluding software).

Would a £2000 Mac outperform a £2000 PC?

Is maxed out ram a real bonus, 3gig+?

Also is a good graphics card essential? Quadro FX?

Regards
Jon
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Jon

I assume from your purchasing in pounds that you are in the UK and therefore using the PAL version of the camera, unless something has changed since I bought my HVX, Mac doesn't support the 25p frame rates. I went with Canopus Edius broadcast as the only software I cold find that supports the PAL frame rates.
 
Mac does support 25p frame rates. 720p25pn, 1080:25p. the works. It doesn't support 720p50, tough.
 
underseafan said:
Which program? I couldn't get FCP to accept my 25p mxf files, what am I doing wrong?
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You need FCP 5.1.2 or later for that. Just run system update.
 
This thread has caused some debate, and I think I understand the NLE argument now. But want I’d really like to know is does a similarly priced Mac Pro £2000 ($4000) out perform a similarly priced £2000 ($4000) PC Workstation (Dell 690 / HP xw8400 for instance)? In real-time HVX editing?

Regards
Jon
 
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