Steve Laramie
Veteran
I know the scarlet hasnt come out yet but would the scarlet be an upgrade from the HVX. I just cant beleive its only 3grand.
hvx vs scarlet
- Thread starter Steve Laramie
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dantewaters
Well-known member
3k is the base price... factor around 5k-6k in the end.
Steve Laramie
Veteran
thats what I thought.... what would you NEED to buy to make it work? I thought they were trying to make it an out of the box camera.
Shane Ross
Veteran
It is too early to tell...they keep changing what the camera body will look like. If the workflow is anything like the current RED camera, it is anything but "out of the box." It is still currently vaporware until a model comes out.
Joseph Stunzi
Veteran
Well personally from my POV... it's too early to tell what sort of investment and quality can be expected out of the RED Scarlet
Alex.Mitchell
Well-known member
It seems like it, right up until you have an opportunity to work with the footage. I'd recommend using a ONE or trying out the workflow before coming to that conclusion.
But yeah, everyone pretty much has it right. There isn't a camera from RED today that you can compare the HVX to, and the spec sheet doesn't reveal much. Judging from what we do know, the HVX and Scarlet are two entirely different cameras with two entirely different workflows that are suited to two different markets.
If you're interested in finding out more, just go check out scarletuser.com or reduser.net. Download some footage, try making a workflow for it, read some specs, etc. It'll give you a much more balanced perspective on the pros and cons of a transition to RED gear than any of us could.
An hvx200 exists, and you can edit its footage on a 5 year old computer....
Scarlet... who knows.....
Scarlet... who knows.....
Alex.Mitchell
Well-known member
Actually, the footage from Scarlet and the footage from the Red One are indistinguishable to your computer. Technically, everyone that knows what it's like working with 3K Redcode knows what it is going to be like working with Scarlet footage.
Truth be told, unless you're running on a PPC Mac it's not going to be any more processor intensive to edit Scarlet footage than HVX footage, depending on what your deliverables and preferred workflow are going to be. For me, I'm planning around an offline edit with a quarter debayer to ProRes 422 SQ, with an online using a full debayer scaled to 2k ProRes 422 HQ. However, a half debayer to DVCProHD 720p is more than doable, and would look pretty fantastic while remaining easy on the processors. The difference is that you can't really run RedRushes, RedAlert, or RedCine on a PPC Mac, so converting Redcode to DVCPro would need to be done on someone else's machine if you've got a five year old editing station.
CherryTime
Well-known member
It's very hyped for sure!
Steve Laramie
Veteran
its supposed to come with an 8x lens and a 4.5in high rez monitor.
Mattykins
Cute Member
I've seen the footage. I haven't worked with the camera yet. But I don't really have anything slated I need a RED for. I guess what I am saying is so many people love the huge resolution. If it was all resolution - everything would be shot on a RED. Resolution only goes so far. That's my opinion on it anyways. I use the camera that gets the job done. Digital cinema wise - I am content with CineAlta. Though much more expensive - I love the cameras and the workflow.
I viewed some footage shot with the ONE and thought it looked pretty amazing - like looking at a scene through a very clean window...
However, I don't like films that look like a scene through a window... For over a century cinematographers have worked - using lighting, diffusion and laboratory manipulation - to create images that are subjective, not objective - because filmmaking is a subjective art.
That's not to say that it isn't possible to do that with the Red as well... But it does take considerable experience and visual skill, just like shooting 35mm... Don't expect to just pick one up and shoot footage that looks like JESSE JAMES.
The last thing I want is for someone to look at a film I've made and only say "Gee, that's really sharp, isn't it?".
Realistically, the Red's image is over-kill for the majority of people. In most cases, no audience will ever see anything in the end result that represents the capabilities of the camera - even on BlueRay when that becomes feasible. If you want to have the best possible image for your own experimentation, or to be able to tell people you have it, fine, but otherwise the Panasonics are better than good enough.
However, I don't like films that look like a scene through a window... For over a century cinematographers have worked - using lighting, diffusion and laboratory manipulation - to create images that are subjective, not objective - because filmmaking is a subjective art.
That's not to say that it isn't possible to do that with the Red as well... But it does take considerable experience and visual skill, just like shooting 35mm... Don't expect to just pick one up and shoot footage that looks like JESSE JAMES.
The last thing I want is for someone to look at a film I've made and only say "Gee, that's really sharp, isn't it?".
Realistically, the Red's image is over-kill for the majority of people. In most cases, no audience will ever see anything in the end result that represents the capabilities of the camera - even on BlueRay when that becomes feasible. If you want to have the best possible image for your own experimentation, or to be able to tell people you have it, fine, but otherwise the Panasonics are better than good enough.
Chris Santucci
Veteran
Red: It's a camera, not a revolution.
Is it worth the hassle in post (not to mention on shoot days) if your end product only ends up on television sets or computer monitors? When HD became a reality, producers were looking for DPs who could shoot HD, now they're looking for DPs who can shoot with a Red.
HD, Red - it's still "video." It's not like Red is such a radical departure that you need a different set of skills (well, maybe thermodynamics) to use it and it's not giving you significantly better footage as far as I can tell.
I've seen lots of Red projects (on small screens) and they don't look radically different from anything shot on a Cinealta, Varicam, HVX200, etc. I worked on a commercial job recently that was shot on the Panavision F900 and was shown on theatre screens all over the country as a filmout. I don't remember hearing one person say it was nice, but, it would have been better if it were shot on the Red.
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Steve Laramie
Veteran
no but they probably have 1tb p2 cards for $100
ProfessorU
Veteran
The RED One is a digital cinema camera (not a video camera). Regardless of resolution, there are multiple other differences. Digital cinema cameras like the D-21, Viper, and RED One are not great tools to use to put together a talk show, just like Betacams are not great tools for a feature film.
I advise anyone working on RED One to treat it like a film camera. Use a light meter, sync sound, etc. It's much more like shooting on reversal than on tape, especially with the workflow complications that plague anyone without a post-production house or their own programmer.
Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of similarities between the two formats, but there are also a lot of similarities between TV and still photography.
wgzn
Veteran
i hear this kind of thing a lot. and find it a tad confusing... are red video files not synced with the audio files? is what you see on your monitor NOT what you see when you capture the footage?
other than a more complicated injest workflow, what (outside of learning the specific camera controls) makes the red so much different than say an HVX with a 35mm adapter?
im sure my ignorant viewpoint will change once i USE a red, but - compose, light, expose(record), capture, edit. does the red really challenge the shooting paradigm that much?
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I think that they are alluding to that the Red ONE has medicore audio quality at this point although there is a free audio board swap out available. Have not heard from any RED users yet on the differences between the old board and new board but Sound Devices does have a blurb on their website discussing relative audio quality of the Red ONE. They recommend double system sound (of course, they make all of those sweet audio recorders as well).
Dan
Dan