HVX Users: UNITE!

12 seconds of footage for 25 bucks? no thanks, just a gripe i have with stock footage places. I want minutes, not seconds.
 
If you look at most of our footage it is :30 - :60 sec. And most clips have 2-4 shots. HD footage for $129-$149 and most are shot with the HVX which means image compatibility with your own camera and edit system!
 
Not a union, but a pact between DVX/HVX users to insist on reasonable rates...
 
Its the same worldwide.

I do quite a few weddings and get many calls asking for a quote. When I tell them I will shoot the wedding and reception up to the speaches for £1250, they can't believe I could charge so much. I ask them who much the photographer has cost them, and hear often, £1200-1500. I tell them they are prepared to pay that, and the photographers day is over almost the minute he leaves the wedding, yet the videographer is not half way through the deal.

"But I have had quotes of £250" is the reply. "Then go book them" is my response.

Never bother to undercut the opposition. I know £1250 is the cheapest I will shoot a wedding. I don't want the hassle of shooting a wedding, with the stress and headaches of dealing with the brides mother, who expects a full epic with multi camera angles out of a single camera deal.

And let me tell you. I get plenty of bookings at that price. Stick firm, sell your business to them and they will pay the premium for your time.
 
Cynic821 said:
12 seconds of footage for 25 bucks? no thanks, just a gripe i have with stock footage places. I want minutes, not seconds.
Click to expand...

Heck, it costs me that much now just to drive across town. :)
 
Its the same worldwide.

I do quite a few weddings and get many calls asking for a quote. When I tell them I will shoot the wedding and reception up to the speaches for £1250, they can't believe I could charge so much. I ask them who much the photographer has cost them, and hear often, £1200-1500. I tell them they are prepared to pay that, and the photographers day is over almost the minute he leaves the wedding, yet the videographer is not half way through the deal.

"But I have had quotes of £250" is the reply. "Then go book them" is my response.

Never bother to undercut the opposition. I know £1250 is the cheapest I will shoot a wedding. I don't want the hassle of shooting a wedding, with the stress and headaches of dealing with the brides mother, who expects a full epic with multi camera angles out of a single camera deal.

And let me tell you. I get plenty of bookings at that price. Stick firm, sell your business to them and they will pay the premium for your time.
Click to expand...

Right on the spot Steve!
 
I like giving them a breakdown of the time involved on my side. When I break it down into manhours and then divide what they're offering by the manhours involved they feel like schmucks. And I always tell them that they get what they pay for, which is true. You pay someone 100 bucks a day to shoot, you'll get that quality in return.
 
I remember a story once about a software company that had a great product that they sold for $99. It didn't do very well. Everyone thought it was cheap. They upped the price to $999 and it sold like hotcakes since everyone thought at that price the software must be really good. :)

I think everyone goes through the stage where they feel they have to cut rates in order to get jobs. Eventually the realize that in the end they're only undercutting themselves.

As I get older, one of the most valuable things to me is time. If you want me to spend time away from my family then you'll have to pay me for that time.

Heck, I'm still paying bills from my last trip. How can I recoup that by selling stock footage for $35 a clip? My plane ticket alone was over $500. Then I have a mortgage, utility bills etc.
So, I try to have footage that no one else has. If you can find a grizzly bear attacking a wolf anywhere else for less money go for it.
 
Absolutely right Isaac. When I take a wedding booking I explain down to the smallest detail what I do for the money. they want me filming the bride getting ready? It's an extra and they have to pay for it. They want me to film the evening disco? Its an extra!

For £1250, they get: The Bridegrooms arival at the church. Greeting of the guests as they arrive. the inside of the church as the guest build. The arrival of the bride. the ceremony in its entirety. The walk out of the church. the throwing of the confetti. Filming the photographer taking the pics. Leaving the church. Arriving at the reception. Greeting of the guests by the happy couple. Interviews with freinds and family wishing the couple good luck. The speaches. Cutting of the cake.

That alone is 2 plus hours on DVD. As I have now done many weddings, from start to finish takes a morning to capture, and a day and a half to edit and render in FCP. Half a day to make the DVD in DVD Studio Pro and burn. Each wedding uses the same template ( it matters not as they think it is completely individual)

So a day filming, and 2 days making it. Three days for £1250= £416 a day. Not fantastic but good enough. Any less and I would rather sit in front of the TV and drik a beer. IMagine charging £250, for all that work. And imagine if you did all this for £250 and cocked it up!
 
Well, over here one the top rental houses is charging 150€/day for the camera only. Go and compete to that... Anyway, Barry is right. If you are to cheap, serious work will pass you by. That's why I don't get asked for friends weddings anymore. They just about choke when I name a price. :)
 
mcgeedigital said:
I don't leave the house for anything less than $50/hr., not including gear.

Nor should you.
Click to expand...

10 hours x $50.00 per hour = $500.00 day rate. For an HVX package with support gear, that's peanuts for a full day rate. Maybe prices are alot lower in Virginnia, but even then that rate is pretty low. Charge by a half day or full day rate. Hourly is a recipe for poverty. If someone hires you for three hours in the middle of the day, your earing potential is gone for that day- outside of working for three hours. By the time you load the car, head to the shoot and wrap- three hours has turned into 4-5 hours. WOrking hourly is a bad way to go for your personal income as well as the health of the industry. Don't do it.

Something to think about.
 
hotchkiss said:
10 hours x $50.00 per hour = $500.00 day rate. For an HVX package with support gear, that's peanuts for a full day rate. Maybe prices are alot lower in Virginnia, but even then that rate is pretty low. Charge by a half day or full day rate. Hourly is a recipe for poverty. If someone hires you for three hours in the middle of the day, your earing potential is gone for that day- outside of working for three hours. By the time you load the car, head to the shoot and wrap- three hours has turned into 4-5 hours. WOrking hourly is a bad way to go for your personal income as well as the health of the industry. Don't do it.

Something to think about.
Click to expand...

I said WITHOUT gear. And yes, that is based on half day minimum. I just broke it down to hourly.
 
Cynic821 said:
Im curious what the going rates should be around exactly for videography. We might start taking jobs for it soon to help pay off the camera, with the laptop included we are almost at 12k so far (HVX/M2/500$ Sticks and Fluid Head, etc etc) We did get 1000$ for a DVD shoot plus royalties of said DVD but im in a special situation where i work for a DVD publisher, the DVD was already sold and we needed to shoot it and put on DVD. Took about 5 hours to shoot, and 12 to edit and get a final burn to DVD. So i think we got a good rate locked in there.
Click to expand...

Depends on what kind of work your doing, and of course what ever regional differential there may be. For EFP/ENG rates I can give you my rates with a DVX-100A package. Your mileage may vary.

10 hour Day rate: $675.00
• wage $400.00. I charge this whether I'm using my gear or someone elses.
• gear package $275.00- cam, matte box, sticks, 5 head basic light package which includes chimeras and limited grip gear, field monitor, hard wired lavaliers (2) and low end wireless package for sound. Additional grip gear ( stands,big silks)and lighting is itemized as well as a boom/shotgun combo.

I've done quite a bit of "reality" ( ;-) ) show shooting, and oftern times they are just looking for a camera and me - a very stripped down package. I'll do a reduction on my price sans lights and support gear.

5 hour half day: $500.00 (%75 of day rate) Wage is $300.00.

Half days are portal to portal based with some exceptions, usually depending on the client. On a full day I'm a bit more flexible. Overtime is my hourly wage( $400.00 / 10 =$40.00) x 1.5. Double time starts at 12 hours. If no lunch hour is (less than a half hour) provided, I charge.

Tape stock is marked up %100. If client provides tape it has to be the same stock that I shoot. Mileage is .37 cents per mile after the first 40 miles. I'm flexible on this based on the shoot and the client. Although with the price of gas, less so than previously. Invoices are due Net 30, although typically they end up being paid Net 45...

I don't have an HVX yet, so I haven't figured out the new rate yet. I'll probably have a SD and a HD rate. SD will be close to the current rate and HD will most likely be 200--300 hundred more. I'd like to hear others rationales and percentage increases for HVX rates. My thinking is that I need to account for the cameras increased price and the data handling required. Clients no longer have to pay for tape stock or digitizing, the latter is a huge savings. But, there's more work on my end and that's money to be made... Again, I'd like to hear others thoughts on HVX rate increases.

Anyone ?
 
David S. said:
But don't you establish a minimum shoot rate?

Like at least $300.00?
Click to expand...

Yes sir I do. I have a Half-day rate minimum. I was just quoting an hourly rate to break it down.

Half-day $350
Full Day $500

Gear not included as I tailor the package to the client, and I have a dvx100, HVX200, and a Sony DSR-500 depending on the client's needs

Thanks

Matt G
 
hotchkiss said:
I don't have an HVX yet, so I haven't figured out the new rate yet. I'll probably have a SD and a HD rate. SD will be close to the current rate and HD will most likely be 200--300 hundred more. I'd like to hear others rationales and percentage increases for HVX rates. My thinking is that I need to account for the cameras increased price and the data handling required. Clients no longer have to pay for tape stock or digitizing, the latter is a huge savings. But, there's more work on my end and that's money to be made... Again, I'd like to hear others thoughts on HVX rate increases.

Anyone ?
Click to expand...

Hotchkiss,

You have to account for P2 import the same way, if not even more importantly, than digetizing time post shoot. I don't want to call it P2's dirty little secret, but if you or an assistant screw up P2 import, then their is nothing to fall back on. Don't get me wrong here, I love my P2s tapeless workflow, it is just imperative to have a solid workflow plan in place prior to going to a shoot.

In terms of budgeting, you have to account both for your increased equipment cost, and the cost of an assistant if you are shooting P2 instead of tape.

Below is my previous post:
dvInsight said:
Barry's right, as usual. As an owner operators you not only have to think of paying back your camera and associated gear, but factor in the cost of maintenance, replacement (you want the next generation right?) and profit. So if you have an HVX package with 2 or more P2 Cards, decent sticks/fluid head, and maybe a matte box you are into it for about $10K. Being realistic it has a rental life of 18-30 months (sweet spot of 24 for maths sake). Let's add $100 a month for maintainance * 24 m for two years of maintainance, so you are up to $12,400. Now figure you want 20% profit on those costs. That would equal another $2,480 and now you are up to $14,880. Now add the cost to replace all the equipment again after two years so you can buy the new one (you really won't have to buy all new again, unless you are adding another package to rent) and that is another $10K. So you are up to $24,880 that you have to charge over 24 months (just for gear, using my really loose assumptions) to grow your little rental business. This would not yet feed & cloth a family. You still have to get your day rate to do that.

So based on Barry's minimum you would only need 4 camera rental days a month for
24 months to easily cover the above scenario. Now don't jump all over me because I left off the cost insurance, opportunity lost costs of initial $10,000, finance charges etc. You can easily add 20 more things this to realize that you should really be charging more for your gear than Barry's minimum. A $10K package should really be fetching $375 to $450 depending on the market.

And the part about cheap customers is 100% accurate. They are the ones who want to pick it up Thursday afternoon and return it late Monday morning, pay a day rate, want their nephews college student discount, and then think they should get an additional break upon return because the P2 "thingy" filled up during the wedding vows and the auto focus didn't work at the candlelit reception. Rent to pros, or to those who at least act professionally at professional rates.

Heck I tell some people to go buy a $300 - $400 camera at Best Buy instead of renting mine. When they say "but your stuff looks so beautiful, we want your camera." That is when I tell them that what they want is me and my camera and my assistant and then their project will look beatuful too.

Any way, listen to JP and Barry. Don't go cheap.

Rob
Click to expand...

Hopefully, the DVX/HVX community will help all owners/operators maintain a high degree of professionalism and profitability.

Regards,

Rob
 
I dont get how you guys can do that with clients personally. I guess im old fashioned and always have been about making each experience a personal one. And charging per mile ? THings like that i find kind of dick headish, and just wouldnt be able to bring myself to do that. Ive charged plenty before and i make friends with my clients. If it costs me 100 bucks now to be friends with someone, but i get repeat business garunteed. I think thats a better trade off then letting someone go home and think im an asshole for charging an extra .47 cents for a mile.
 
I agree, I have been in the business going on 27 years - We never charged milage, or for batteries or a few burn-in dubs. Clients hate to be nickel & dimed to death. Spending bucks taking them out to lunch will pay back. Today most people don't stay in jobs long enough to really build much rapore. We used to go through cycles where in house departments would come and go. I am out of producing now as you see where I spend my time now! Good luck to all the independents!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top