HVX-200 Europe
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alpi69
Veteran
little off topic, but it is true that you need some certain turnover numbers within your first three years or your business is considered a hobby and you have to PAY tHEM BACK your deduction. but i think it is as low as euro 15.000 turnover in a year.
people who buy a cam for 10.000 are either professionals (commercial producers or filmmakers). otherwise it would be a pure expensive hobby and you have not to worry about VAT anyway, because you simply got enough money in the first place.
8.500 excl VAT will end up as a retailprice of 10.200 incl tax here in Austria (20% VAT) which is higher than the US bundles, but still lower than the 12.000 (10.000 + VAT) that were floating around before.
people who buy a cam for 10.000 are either professionals (commercial producers or filmmakers). otherwise it would be a pure expensive hobby and you have not to worry about VAT anyway, because you simply got enough money in the first place.
8.500 excl VAT will end up as a retailprice of 10.200 incl tax here in Austria (20% VAT) which is higher than the US bundles, but still lower than the 12.000 (10.000 + VAT) that were floating around before.
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
I don't know how it works in your different countries but @mine not all professionals deduct VAT because there are who had choose not deduct the value-added tax or to charge it (not all PROfessionals have VAT account!). That's why jazzx said what he said. As well, it's TRUE that all CAN do it BUT only if you choose to be @VAT system. If there is exemption and there are some cases where it is this option. I know a lot of professionals and some institutions (cultural and art centres/centers or associations, for instance) that had chosen this tax mode for several reasons. And in these cases you must pay it anyway and it's not refundable. So, VAT can be an extra cost. Specially to this level of equipment purchase. And I'm talking about PROfessionals (tax registered as being in this quality).xray said:No, it is a closed system. If you do not have a revenue they pay you the tax back, otherwise it is a calculation: the tax you asked your clients (-) the tax you paid for doing business.jazzx said:Very true and you know what else is also true? You have to have some sort of revenue that is high enough so that you can "experience" the deduction
xray said:
jazzx
Well-known member
I also said it because it's difficult within one financial year to surpass one's expenses in incomes, especially if it's not the camera only and it's tripods, matteboxes blah-blah, hell one does not even know if he\she is even going to be any good when starting aside from being profitable, after all it is art!
Sorry for the OT chatter I'm so excited with the camera and trying to figure out how I will start this thing I want to do..
Sorry for the OT chatter I'm so excited with the camera and trying to figure out how I will start this thing I want to do..
xray
Well-known member
alpi69 said:
I started my business almost 15 years ago, (1991) and during my starting years there was not such a rule and still its not like that over here. If they give you a VAT number you can calculate VAT without a minimal turnover. But if they do not consider you as a company but more as a freelancer perhaps the rules change...
/edit/
Oh Yes, If you do not have a VAT number, working in the film/video world over here is difficult, I have to employ you or you need a ´third party organization´who has a VATnumber and they give you temporal work and I do business with that organization, mostly used by students and starters..
alpi69
Veteran
jazzx said:
to make matters worse you cannot write the expense of this cam off in one year here. a car in austria is spread over 7 years!! 7 years...that´s crazy, but we have it. what it means: if i buy a car for 28.000 i can only use 4.000 in the first year against my profit to reduce my tax. then 4.000 the next year again and so on.
i think a digitalcam is 5 years. so even if i use 10.000 i can only use 2.000 in the first year against tax. crazy system huh.
san ferreira
New member
to expensive
to expensive
:embarasse
:undecided
to expensive
:embarasse
:undecided
JackFoley said:
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
I follow your point. But as I said before, I don't know how it works at all the european countries. In the tax systems that I know, nor all PROfessionals have their interest as VAT registered 'cause their arthouse goal or other similar cultural non-profit aim. Not necessarily, students or starters...but yes, to them, it will be an add problem. On the other hand, VAT requires an accountant - it means more burocracy (and nor all european countries are so business friendly as Netherlands) - and it hurts in terms of business commitments that you must have in order to support it. For similar reasons that's why in hollywood there isn't freedom of cutting. It isn't possible considering the business dependence of an expensive machine/structure. I prefer the art itself, anyway.xray said:
<PS>
For instance, in some european countries, there's also other problem: if you are VAT registered there's the assumption of a revenue basis. And they don't care if you have it or not. You must pay the respective taxes anyway with or without income. It's unfair but that's the way it works. It can be a REAL expensive commitment.
Barra
Carbonite Member
Here in Ireland / EU, you must register for Vat if income exceeds 50,000 pa or if you wish you may register if income less than this but then you must submit audited accounts so your accountancy fees are much higher than normal small business/ self employed accounts/ tax returns. Artists may also register for Vat as individuals even if their work is tax exempt under artists' exemption scheme (Ireland only I think).
Not all professionals are Vat registered and if not then they don't charge Vat so should be no issue re employment, however there are many TV companies and TV broadcasting stations who now require professionals to have LTD companies which must be Vat registered to be employed freelance by them, this is because of new revenue auditing issues for the major employers to cut down on freelancers who were previoulsy skipping tax obligations because they escaped the revenue radar.
Vat and duty is State robbery and no matter what way you try to justify it, I will not buy into your philosophy - but c'est la vie! mes amis. That's the way it's been since forever, no social revolution has ever changed things that much. I say pay the b****xs and then use your equipment to portray them as realistically as possible and make their lives more miserable.
:happy:
Not all professionals are Vat registered and if not then they don't charge Vat so should be no issue re employment, however there are many TV companies and TV broadcasting stations who now require professionals to have LTD companies which must be Vat registered to be employed freelance by them, this is because of new revenue auditing issues for the major employers to cut down on freelancers who were previoulsy skipping tax obligations because they escaped the revenue radar.
Vat and duty is State robbery and no matter what way you try to justify it, I will not buy into your philosophy - but c'est la vie! mes amis. That's the way it's been since forever, no social revolution has ever changed things that much. I say pay the b****xs and then use your equipment to portray them as realistically as possible and make their lives more miserable.
:happy:
They *probably* ship via Pana US, so that makes them *a little bit* more expensive ;-)
Just kidding
I would assume that different import taxes are at least a part of that price delta as well as different overhead costs for Pana EU compared to Pana US plus different pricing schemes of European and US dealers.
Just kidding
I would assume that different import taxes are at least a part of that price delta as well as different overhead costs for Pana EU compared to Pana US plus different pricing schemes of European and US dealers.
alpi69
Veteran
true, but I can sit in an old town with houses from the 12th century or older and have a great bottle of french or italian or austrian wine for much less than I could if i lived in the States. That´s worth something. It costs us, but it still feels good. And if I break my leg I know I will get fixed again. That is worth even more......
JanBee
Active member
My five cents:
A) You guys talk about currency exchange rate differences. Panasonic has good reason to believe by the time the cam ships in Europe the exchange rate of the Euro COULD be on par with the Dollar - with the Euro steadily falling for the last few months. If not, I doubt that Panasonic will make the net price of the cam considerably higher in Europe. We probably will end up with something like 5600 Euro vs. 6000 dollars.
B) Why are people bickering about VAT??? I don't get it! If you buy a cam in the states you HAVE to pay your countries VAT anyway (it's called a bit different then [In Germany its VAT=Mehrwertsteuer and for imported stuff Einfuhrumsatzsteuer, something like IMPORT-VAT], but THE SAME, and I don't talk about CUSTOMS). Sure, you can just try to SMUGGLE it into your country, but if you want to do this you can also order the cam in any EU country other then your own and state a valid (but "stolen") VAT-ID and you won't have to pay VAT as well (which is also considered a serious crime). And, as already mentioned in a post earlier: You pay it but you deduct it 1:1 (and even get paid BACK if you don't have enough to deduct!). VAT is a VAULE ADDED tax, not a SALES tax. If I do pay VAT I don't give a damn, because I either get it back or deduct it... or I do create MORE VALUE (=income) and can easily pay it!
C) VAT has NOTHING to do with other taxes like income taxes or "writing something off"
A) You guys talk about currency exchange rate differences. Panasonic has good reason to believe by the time the cam ships in Europe the exchange rate of the Euro COULD be on par with the Dollar - with the Euro steadily falling for the last few months. If not, I doubt that Panasonic will make the net price of the cam considerably higher in Europe. We probably will end up with something like 5600 Euro vs. 6000 dollars.
B) Why are people bickering about VAT??? I don't get it! If you buy a cam in the states you HAVE to pay your countries VAT anyway (it's called a bit different then [In Germany its VAT=Mehrwertsteuer and for imported stuff Einfuhrumsatzsteuer, something like IMPORT-VAT], but THE SAME, and I don't talk about CUSTOMS). Sure, you can just try to SMUGGLE it into your country, but if you want to do this you can also order the cam in any EU country other then your own and state a valid (but "stolen") VAT-ID and you won't have to pay VAT as well (which is also considered a serious crime). And, as already mentioned in a post earlier: You pay it but you deduct it 1:1 (and even get paid BACK if you don't have enough to deduct!). VAT is a VAULE ADDED tax, not a SALES tax. If I do pay VAT I don't give a damn, because I either get it back or deduct it... or I do create MORE VALUE (=income) and can easily pay it!
C) VAT has NOTHING to do with other taxes like income taxes or "writing something off"