HV20 gain
- Thread starter AuditoryVisuals
- Start date
Dennis Wood
DVXuser Sponsor
I'm hoping some AE experts can refine this procedure a bit. I'm using AE 7.0, but hardly an expert.
1. Capture footage from the HV20 using HDVsplit (google for download) which will capture and break up/log your clips based on scene detection. If you just capture a series of clips in one large capture the pull down removal will not work correctly.
2. Set up a 23.976 fps composition in AE with 1400x1080 HDV, 1.33 par, full resolution, with "lock 4:3 aspect unchecked.
3. Import your HDVsplit captured clips into AE and right click on each to interpret footage. Click on the "Guess 3:2 pulldown" button and accept what it comes up with. The sequence will change from clip to clip.
4. Copy the blank comp you created, and then use CTRL-V to paste as many comps as you have clips. Drag a clip into each comp...you may need to change lengths etc.
5. Now select each comp and hit CTRL-M to "Make Movie" . All of your clips will then be queued so you can click "Render" and walk away. You'll end with a collection of large avi files with pulldown removed.
6. Import these into your NLE with a 24fps preset and you're set.
It's hardly efficient, but once the clips are queued, you can just let them render overnight etc.
1. Capture footage from the HV20 using HDVsplit (google for download) which will capture and break up/log your clips based on scene detection. If you just capture a series of clips in one large capture the pull down removal will not work correctly.
2. Set up a 23.976 fps composition in AE with 1400x1080 HDV, 1.33 par, full resolution, with "lock 4:3 aspect unchecked.
3. Import your HDVsplit captured clips into AE and right click on each to interpret footage. Click on the "Guess 3:2 pulldown" button and accept what it comes up with. The sequence will change from clip to clip.
4. Copy the blank comp you created, and then use CTRL-V to paste as many comps as you have clips. Drag a clip into each comp...you may need to change lengths etc.
5. Now select each comp and hit CTRL-M to "Make Movie" . All of your clips will then be queued so you can click "Render" and walk away. You'll end with a collection of large avi files with pulldown removed.
6. Import these into your NLE with a 24fps preset and you're set.
It's hardly efficient, but once the clips are queued, you can just let them render overnight etc.
Cinetastic
Member
Barry_Green said:
Thanks (again) to Barry who lets me guess/feel what the Night exposure may actually be doing. I have used the auto exposure at Night (shooting everything in Cine Gamma mode/24p) and am very pleased with the results, but wouldn`t like less than 1/24 shutter to avoid any streaking echo too much. I have tried adding the exposure +1 - +6 and what Barry found is what I felt was happenning to the shutter (and I felt I did not like the look in the LCD), so I have been setting an exposure to a Night exterior key light and locking it at `0` and not adjusting.
With Barry`s daylight exposure table I was wondering if it would be wisest to add the Canon ND filter I bought on those brightest sunny Days to keep the HV20 at its happiest (and my fave 1/48)?
Barry_Green said:
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Somebody, hack this camera!
Somebody, hack this camera!
Someone's probably suggested this already, but this thread is getting too long to read all the way through.
Can somebody hack this camera to have the gain turned off, somebody like Reel Stream? I would gladly pay to have this camera modified to act properly. I would even leave it with gain permanently turned off if that made the modification easier or cheaper.
Maybe Canon will make the next generation act properly, but I wouldn't expect to see that camera for another year. The HV20 is great in so many other ways.
Of course a 24PA mode would also be nice. As it is, I bring all my clips into FCP with the Intermediate codec, throw them onto a timeline, align them so that they all are in sequence together with the same 3:2 pulldown sequence, export that (not self-contained so it's fast), then do ONE reverse pulldown in Cinema Tools. It's much faster than figuring out the timing of each clip and doing them separately in Cinema Tools. If I'm going to be mixing HV20 with HVX200, I'll convert the first pre-removal sequence to DVCPRO-HD with Nattress' color smoother (to help out the 4:2:0) first, and then reverse pulldown.
Love the HV20's image (for the price and size), need mo' control!
Somebody, hack this camera!
Someone's probably suggested this already, but this thread is getting too long to read all the way through.
Can somebody hack this camera to have the gain turned off, somebody like Reel Stream? I would gladly pay to have this camera modified to act properly. I would even leave it with gain permanently turned off if that made the modification easier or cheaper.
Maybe Canon will make the next generation act properly, but I wouldn't expect to see that camera for another year. The HV20 is great in so many other ways.
Of course a 24PA mode would also be nice. As it is, I bring all my clips into FCP with the Intermediate codec, throw them onto a timeline, align them so that they all are in sequence together with the same 3:2 pulldown sequence, export that (not self-contained so it's fast), then do ONE reverse pulldown in Cinema Tools. It's much faster than figuring out the timing of each clip and doing them separately in Cinema Tools. If I'm going to be mixing HV20 with HVX200, I'll convert the first pre-removal sequence to DVCPRO-HD with Nattress' color smoother (to help out the 4:2:0) first, and then reverse pulldown.
Love the HV20's image (for the price and size), need mo' control!
vidled said:
Hehehehe. I ALONE define what is proper and what is not! Didn't you get the memo? Enough of this, I'm late for my MA (Megalomaniacs Anonymous) meeting!
(just kidding)
Seriously, does anyone on this forum WANT the inability to control gain, shutter, and aperture independently and yes, properly? You can always have your automatic mode, if that's what you want. That shouldn't preclude real manual control. It's just software, dammit! The whole idea of the HV20 was to improve on the HV10. It's the same sensor, just new ergos and "manual control" capability.
In any case, I'll use it as best I can, as with any tool, but I think the HV20 is good enough to warrant some hot-rodding. Even as is, the HV20 is working well with my HVX200, and later this summer I'll add Red to the mix.
I've been using the HVX for my personal needs the last year, so the HV20 is starting to make a very nice replacement for family stuff!
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Barry_Green
Moderator
We'd all want that, but I don't know that the HV20 is going to be the one. It does what it does. Maybe they'll make an HV30 which adds the few missing controls that we'd all really want? I'd much rather have a factory original with a warranty and everything, rather than hacking it.
Jay Rodriguez
Coffee Member
or maybe if anyone wants those controls they should buy the A1. If they give you everything then what's the point of selling a camera that costs 2,500 more, is larger and heavier and named the A1?
??????
Hey, can't hurt to dream. Still, I'm a little surprised at some of these recent comments.
What makes the Reel Stream such a good idea, but the idea of ripping into a $1000 camera so unacceptable? Strange.
Anyway, who cares. Use it for what it's good for, as is. But if I was a little more code savvy . . . . I'm not, so that's that.
Time to hit the sack, gotta get up for the early flight to NAB.
Hey, can't hurt to dream. Still, I'm a little surprised at some of these recent comments.
What makes the Reel Stream such a good idea, but the idea of ripping into a $1000 camera so unacceptable? Strange.
Anyway, who cares. Use it for what it's good for, as is. But if I was a little more code savvy . . . . I'm not, so that's that.
Time to hit the sack, gotta get up for the early flight to NAB.
Jay Stebbins
Active member
Barry,
if you put a light meter to your cell phone with the appropriate screen, would that be a starting point in creating a lighted lenscap to set the exposure baseline?
Thanks for your and everyone else's effort in this endeavor,
Jay
if you put a light meter to your cell phone with the appropriate screen, would that be a starting point in creating a lighted lenscap to set the exposure baseline?
Thanks for your and everyone else's effort in this endeavor,
Jay
Barry_Green
Moderator
Probably. I'm using it as a consistent light generating scheme, and in context with the HV20 it's a rather enjoyable DIY type of solution...
Jake Danilchik
New member
A.SL Shutter
A.SL Shutter
on page 37 of the manual there is a A.SL Shutter adjustment/setting. This can be turned off to disallow "HAL" from adjusting the shutter speed in low light situations. Has anybody explored turning A.SL Shutter off in the menus ?
A.SL Shutter
on page 37 of the manual there is a A.SL Shutter adjustment/setting. This can be turned off to disallow "HAL" from adjusting the shutter speed in low light situations. Has anybody explored turning A.SL Shutter off in the menus ?
Norbert
Well-known member
I was thinking...
You say we can not know when this camera adds gain to the picture, but what if you set the camera in Tv mode, lock the exposure and dial it up while looking at the iris through the lens. When the iris comes to a point where it doesn't open up any further, then all it does after that is adding gain because the shutter is already locked. Am I right?
You say we can not know when this camera adds gain to the picture, but what if you set the camera in Tv mode, lock the exposure and dial it up while looking at the iris through the lens. When the iris comes to a point where it doesn't open up any further, then all it does after that is adding gain because the shutter is already locked. Am I right?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Yes.
Barry_Green
Moderator
It doesn't appear to add gain when the iris is not fully open.
Jay Stebbins
Active member
I finally had some time to play with my HV-20. I used Barry's cell phone white screen to set a baseline as described earlier in this post. Now Barry's chart will likely be different that a chart I would derive using my phone as a baseline. Odds are we have different phones.
But I did notice one thing. I pulled the Mini SD chip out of my phone a stuck in in my camera. You can take a picture while filming, and the Aperture flashes in the lower right corner of the screen. (I am shooting in TV mode so I already know my shutter speed) This if nothing else is a great way to find out what your camera is doing. (you might have to change a n option or two in the camera settings to get the camera to do this, I don't remember)
If you set your baseline with a phone or whatever you choose to use, you can then take a picture for every exposure setting. (-11---0---+11). When you view your pictures in play mode from the sd card it will show a histogram and the information for each exposure adjustment. You do need to be organized because is doesn't exactly tell you +11, it has some other type of metric system.
Although Gain is not displayed. However, when you get to the wide end of the lens, (F/1.8) the first time you see that particular F-stop there should not be any gain. The second time, there should be some, the time after that more. How much I have no idea. Where the brightness of your baseline falls in the spectrum will dictate how many times you see this end repetitively.
On the long end of the lens (F5.6 or higher?) when the f/stop begins to repeat you can assume the ND filters will have engaged.
THis is what I learned this weekend.
Oh yeah, the OIS likes to be turned off on the tripod. And removing the pull down is time consuming.
Have fun,
Jay
But I did notice one thing. I pulled the Mini SD chip out of my phone a stuck in in my camera. You can take a picture while filming, and the Aperture flashes in the lower right corner of the screen. (I am shooting in TV mode so I already know my shutter speed) This if nothing else is a great way to find out what your camera is doing. (you might have to change a n option or two in the camera settings to get the camera to do this, I don't remember)
If you set your baseline with a phone or whatever you choose to use, you can then take a picture for every exposure setting. (-11---0---+11). When you view your pictures in play mode from the sd card it will show a histogram and the information for each exposure adjustment. You do need to be organized because is doesn't exactly tell you +11, it has some other type of metric system.
Although Gain is not displayed. However, when you get to the wide end of the lens, (F/1.8) the first time you see that particular F-stop there should not be any gain. The second time, there should be some, the time after that more. How much I have no idea. Where the brightness of your baseline falls in the spectrum will dictate how many times you see this end repetitively.
On the long end of the lens (F5.6 or higher?) when the f/stop begins to repeat you can assume the ND filters will have engaged.
THis is what I learned this weekend.
Oh yeah, the OIS likes to be turned off on the tripod. And removing the pull down is time consuming.
Have fun,
Jay
Robert Robinson
Member
Hello (noob here),
Based on what I've read in this thread (thanks Barry for your amazing hours of effort!), if I use a 35mm adapter (I own a Brevis and love it) then would this work?
1) TV Mode (shutter priority) set to 1/48
2) Dial in the aperture neccessary on the mounted lens on the adapter for DOF
3) Take a photo on the HV20
4) Check the aperture display (the histogram is just a bonus!)
5) If the aperture is greater than 1.8 (seems it usually is) then there must be ZERO gain?
6) EDIT: If it's not then use EXP and adjust and repreat steps 3-5 until it is...
This seems like a comfortable solution considering that there is a constant shutter speed and ZERO gain. The iris on the camera is not that important (as long as its greater than 1.8) since the aperture on the mounted lens on the adapter is what is really being used to dial in the exposure (and DOF).
Am I missing anything here?
EDIT: I did notice that when using PHOTO that the shutter falls back to 1/30 (there is no 1/48 setting?), but thats alright since we're really just looking for what the aperture is set to and 1/30 is slower than 1/48 so if the aperture is "fine" at 1/30 it will also be fine at 1/48.
Thanks!
Rob Robinson
Based on what I've read in this thread (thanks Barry for your amazing hours of effort!), if I use a 35mm adapter (I own a Brevis and love it) then would this work?
1) TV Mode (shutter priority) set to 1/48
2) Dial in the aperture neccessary on the mounted lens on the adapter for DOF
3) Take a photo on the HV20
4) Check the aperture display (the histogram is just a bonus!)
5) If the aperture is greater than 1.8 (seems it usually is) then there must be ZERO gain?
6) EDIT: If it's not then use EXP and adjust and repreat steps 3-5 until it is...
This seems like a comfortable solution considering that there is a constant shutter speed and ZERO gain. The iris on the camera is not that important (as long as its greater than 1.8) since the aperture on the mounted lens on the adapter is what is really being used to dial in the exposure (and DOF).
Am I missing anything here?
EDIT: I did notice that when using PHOTO that the shutter falls back to 1/30 (there is no 1/48 setting?), but thats alright since we're really just looking for what the aperture is set to and 1/30 is slower than 1/48 so if the aperture is "fine" at 1/30 it will also be fine at 1/48.
Thanks!
Rob Robinson
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Jay Stebbins
Active member
Hey Rob,
I am not much more than a noob, but yes you have it. Once the camera is set. You would use The Aperture on your 35mm lens, in combination with filters or lights (subtracting or adding light) to balance your picture. At that point you will be taking advantage of the Zebra stripe functions of the camera.
If you are shooting faces you would use the 70 zebra setting and pay attention to the highlights on your subjects face. If you are shooting general scenes then the 100 setting would suit you. Use the filters, 35mm aperture in order to get the zebras to just show.
This should get you a good picture to work with in post.
I am in the middle of John Jackman's "lighting for digital video and television". It has been a very good read so far.
* Warning---- I am 3/4 through the book, there might be something on the last page that shoots this all to hell......
Have fun,
Jay
Edit, yes it seems to get you there, as long as we are careful at 1.8 we should be fine. Besides, most lens do not seem to be at their best wide open anyhow.
I am not much more than a noob, but yes you have it. Once the camera is set. You would use The Aperture on your 35mm lens, in combination with filters or lights (subtracting or adding light) to balance your picture. At that point you will be taking advantage of the Zebra stripe functions of the camera.
If you are shooting faces you would use the 70 zebra setting and pay attention to the highlights on your subjects face. If you are shooting general scenes then the 100 setting would suit you. Use the filters, 35mm aperture in order to get the zebras to just show.
This should get you a good picture to work with in post.
I am in the middle of John Jackman's "lighting for digital video and television". It has been a very good read so far.
* Warning---- I am 3/4 through the book, there might be something on the last page that shoots this all to hell......
Have fun,
Jay
Edit, yes it seems to get you there, as long as we are careful at 1.8 we should be fine. Besides, most lens do not seem to be at their best wide open anyhow.