HPX170 Lens Wobble Improved

Luis Caffesse said:
Let's keep the comments on topic - as I mentioned earlier we know that Panasonic reps are aware of this thread and presumably paying attention to it. If you don't have something constructive to add to this discussion I would ask that you please keep the noise level down. The more focused and constructive our comments are, the more likely we will have a solution sooner rather than later.

This wasn't directed at anyone in particular - its just that the last couple of pages of posts have generally started getting a bit "noisy."

Trust me, I'd like to hear an official response about this as much as everyone - if you look back on my posts I uploaded an example from my own HPX170.

I'm just saying let's keep this constructive and focused on facts.

As a quick side note I'd like to say that I'm still amazed at the number of feature from our original request list Panasonic actually incorporated into the HPX170. It is clear to me, as it should be to all members here, that they are listening to their customers and take our feedback seriously.
I don't see why this case would be any different.

Let's try to keep that in mind.
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Exactly. I think they're going to keep this thread in mind and seriously look into this issue. Perhaps they'll recall all the cameras and remove this "shock mount" if it really was supposed to be an intended feature but ended up being a nuisance.
 
10s said:
I find it hard to believe it's a built in shock absorber, it could be that a large surface gasket is missing in the assembly. The lens already has a good image stabilizer inside and the idea of having an additional horizontal shock absorber design is very odd; it would be more effective to have a shock abosrber that controls vertical jolts which are far more likely to occur.

A solid outer shell is what a camera needs to fend off initial shocks. A shock unit, if employed, would be housed interally inside a solid outer shell, it would not be exposed. As we know, the camera already has this internal Image Stabilizer (AKA, shock absorber)...

So, to me this appears to be either a design flaw or an assembly flaw. Just the differences in the delivered production models is a real red flag concern. There is too much +/-variation in the assembly of this vital area of the product.

Where is the well known Japanese Kaizen? C'mon Jan, help em out! :)
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We're all just going off of what Jan told us.
She said it was a "feature" built IN to the camera, and that it is also included on all their other handheld cams.

but I don't see why a shock absorber would be designed with so much play..I mean you can't rack focus without the thing shaking.
 
DanHD said:
I don't see why a shock absorber would be designed with so much play..I mean you can't rack focus without the thing shaking.
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Seems pretty clear that it was not the intended design for it to have as much play as we've seen on some of these.
Especially since we're hearing from some people that their cameras aren't exhibiting the shake at all.

I think what would be most helpful would be for us to see more samples from users.
It doesn't do any of us much good to simply read "my camera shakes a lot" or "my camera is fine."

The more samples we can all see for ourselves (and Panasonic can see) the better idea we'll have of what kind of percentage of cameras might have some level of shake.

Ideally everyone who has an HPX170 will do the full telephoto/rack focus test and upload a clip. If we also had a few HVX200 tests, that would really get us somewhere so we had something to compare to.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
Seems pretty clear that it was not the intended design for it to have as much play as we've seen on some of these.
Especially since we're hearing from some people that their cameras aren't exhibiting the shake at all.

I think what would be most helpful would be for us to see more samples from users.
It doesn't do any of us much good to simply read "my camera shakes a lot" or "my camera is fine."

The more samples we can all see for ourselves (and Panasonic can see) the better idea we'll have of what kind of percentage of cameras might have some level of shake.

Ideally everyone who has an HPX170 will do the full telephoto/rack focus test and upload a clip. If we also had a few HVX200 tests, that would really get us somewhere so we had something to compare to.
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I will try to upload my tests sometime tomorrow.
 
The simple fact that there are significant numbers of faulty units from the first production run suggests there is an out of statistical control tolerence process, it needs immediate attention to bring it back into conformance. Panasonic knows how to build good cameras, something here is wrong. I'll bet they replace these units.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
Focus was racked manually a couple of times - using one finger on the focus ring.
Shot at 1080/24pA, compressed to H.264

http://www.pitchproductions.com/HPX-lenstest.m4v
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Eeek. I just spoke to Panasonic Oz about getting a HVX172, but that clip is very concerning. I've only seen this once before; on the first generation EVO-9100 Hi-8 camera in the early 90's. It too had a shock mount but the lens and focus was so hopeless, I never used it in manual. But the lens definitely had play in it. If a shock mount was so neccesary to stop damage if it is bumped by an object then my $45,000 Canon HJ-HD lens would have a shock mount in it.

Peter
 
I am curious if the image shift occurs at all focal lengths?

I realize the full telephoto image probably exploits it to its worse degree, but isn't it basically present at all focal lengths when focusing?



(I wish I could test my camera but we are on different continents right now. )
 
well, it's obviously noticeable at longer focal lengths, but since it is a physical defect of the camera, it seems like it would occur with any use of the focus ring? I realize it would be impossible to rack focus with the lens at its widest, but it does seem possible that the image shift would still occur due to physically touching the lens.

My 170 definitely has the wobble, as I confirmed this last week, and I am just trying to confirm that I will be able to make some light use of it until it is recalled or whatever needs to happen.

I'm basically out of luck in terms of returning the camera as I will be out of the States for another week. (I'm shooting with an EX1 in Venice due to lack of PAL recording capabilities with the 170... )

I will definitely post a video sample as soon as I can.

Really just curious and anxiously waiting to see the resolve of this issue.
 
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10s said:
I will not buy one of these cameras until this quality issue is completely resolved.
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yeah i was pretty set on buying one next week --- hmmm, now i'm going to hold off as well, see what unfolds. that clip looks unsettling....
 
I'm sure even if you buy one now Panasonic would allow you to return it under the warranty for a souped up "fixed" one :D
 
My seller has a program called the IF (Initial Failure) program and I can return my camera on that program.

I am hearing back from him later this week for the panasonic reps' response.
 
I'm just back from my seller and I've showed him the rack focus issue when full zoomed in. He has immediately called the european distributor asking for an immediate fix of this problem on all cameras he has and on all those he has already sold.
I don't think that Panasonic can delay further to let us know his official position.

I've tried HMC150 also and the lens has exactly the same play and if you focus at full telephoto you can see exactly the same image wobbling.

I agree that for someone and in some situations this can be an an issue, but I don't agree that the camera is unusable, because the wobbling can be avoided by a different approach to the focus ring. I don't want to say that this is normal, I want simply to say that this is the only thing we can do for the moment, waiting an answer by Panasonic.

Anyway, perhaps we should also remember that touching the focus ring of a light palmcorder when it is fully zoomed in, can produce always a shake in the framing (please try) even if mounted on a solid tripod and must always made very very carefully.

Too much carefully in this case, without any doubt.

Gary
 
And I look forward to Andrew Hoffman's forthcoming statement today regarding the camera as obviously a lot of us have purchased the camera through his company.
 
Well, I finally got to lock my camera down on a tripod this morning. All I have to say is I feel so ripped off right now! There's too much wobble in this lens to be considered normal. It's simply a design flaw and I want my money back, not a "repair" but a refund.

VIDEO LINK HERE

In the above video, all I did was zoom in, get a focus, and gently tap the lens hood with my finger nail.

Also, at full zoom, I tried to pull focus without moving the lens, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE to do so!

WTF! I have a feeling they're going to stand by this "product" and tell us to eat doo doo.


Jan, I know you're a great rep. and always looking to help but what's going on?
 
I just put my order in for the 200a at AVS. I'd rather have a sore back than a shaky image... But that being said, I think we should give Panasonic the benefit of the doubt -- they've been around since 1918. If there are defective units they will remedy the problem... Just my contribution to "wigglegate".
 
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