Gary Senda
Well-known member
Absolutely NO: 6 cameras tested. No issues in normal operations.
I should like to see the 'issued' clips
Gary
HPX170 Lens Wobble Improved
- Thread starter Dino
- Start date
Absolutely NO: 6 cameras tested. No issues in normal operations.
I should like to see the 'issued' clips
Gary
DC
Cinematographiliac
I have. And I have not discovered any problem whatsoever.
If some people are having the problem and others aren't, this leads me to believe one of two things:
1. Improper use by the user
or
2. Manufacturing defect (which is NOT the same as a design flaw)
For the sake of argument, let's assume it's the latter. Perhaps some people simply have a defective batch of cameras? If this is the case, I would have to assume Panasonic would cover that. However, a shock mount design alone has not yet been proven to be a design flaw across all HPX170 cameras.
Segarza
Well-known member
Ok guys here's some footage, quick test...
http://homepage.mac.com/segarza/hpx170/imageshift.mov
First rack focus. Then I gently tapped the int microphone, as a reference to see how much of the movement during the rack focus is due to camera shake and how much accounts for the image shifting. Then I gently tapped the focus ring. You be the judge!
http://homepage.mac.com/segarza/hpx170/imageshift.mov
First rack focus. Then I gently tapped the int microphone, as a reference to see how much of the movement during the rack focus is due to camera shake and how much accounts for the image shifting. Then I gently tapped the focus ring. You be the judge!
Beat Takeshi
Two-Hip Shakur
So you expect to see image shift like that when you rack focus?
atlfilmguy
Well-known member
In my work I have times when I rack focus fast with the stock camera using my hand, not any device.
This worries me.
Performing my own tests tonight. I will post my observations as well.
I like the idea of this board being a discussion, and as long as there is no abuse or threats I do not think any thread should be closed. There are many users concerned about this and the best way to hash it out is to have a wonderful place like this to discuss it. I am so glad to have this board and that Jan, Barry , ETC are here to be part of the discussion.
I Really, Really want this baby... I guess nobody wants to hear their shiny new camera has a flaw... I refuse to get anything else than panasonic now that I'm shifting to HD... we need to acknowledge however that Segarza's vid DOES show a shifting on the image... being a design flaw or a faulty cam... the image DOES move...
Gary Senda
Well-known member
According my way of focusing I have not had any issue, but perhaps the result depends also by the way of operating of each of us.
Anyway I've made a little experiment and I have reduced to ***zero*** the play of the lens in a couple of minutes.
The lens moves only laterally and not upside-down and the slot between the barrel and the camera body is about 1mm or less. I've made two little semicircular profiles of 1mm black cardboard and I've slipped them in the slot: 1 on the right and 1 on the left. The lens didn'tt move. Then I've used a toothpick to remove the cardboards, without any damage for the camera.
Perhaps people that cannot live with the shock mount could try: you need only a cardboard of adeguate thickness and if you use a black one it is not visible.
In other words, it is very easy to fix this play if you cannot live it.
Anyway I prefer to have a shock mount: the technician of my camera dealer has clearly said that is well known that the risk of lens damage in case of collision is reduced in panasonic cameras because the shock mount.
Regards
Gary
Anyway I've made a little experiment and I have reduced to ***zero*** the play of the lens in a couple of minutes.
The lens moves only laterally and not upside-down and the slot between the barrel and the camera body is about 1mm or less. I've made two little semicircular profiles of 1mm black cardboard and I've slipped them in the slot: 1 on the right and 1 on the left. The lens didn'tt move. Then I've used a toothpick to remove the cardboards, without any damage for the camera.
Perhaps people that cannot live with the shock mount could try: you need only a cardboard of adeguate thickness and if you use a black one it is not visible.
In other words, it is very easy to fix this play if you cannot live it.
Anyway I prefer to have a shock mount: the technician of my camera dealer has clearly said that is well known that the risk of lens damage in case of collision is reduced in panasonic cameras because the shock mount.
Regards
Gary
I locked mine down and zoomed in tight. Unless you have a really feather touch, it's impossible to manual focus without moving the frame. But if you roll the focus from the bottom you're ok. I like everything else about it, but.....sheeez. I guess you can count me in the anti-shockmount crowd. The shim idea sounds promising, if done by Panasonic.
Gary Senda
Well-known member
Yes, because the lens has only a lateral play. I normally used to focus from the bottom, so for me there's no problem, even fully zoomed.
Perhaps the correct way to focus with this camera is from the bottom: every instrument has its characteristics... and for those who cannot live with this 'play' two simple shims can be the solution.
We could conclude in this way: for some people this is a non-issue, for the other people, who cannot live with this play, there will be surely a simple way to fix the "wiggle"
Gary
Gary Senda
Well-known member
DVXuser Shop could sell the kit: 2 ***professionals*** shims for only 5 USD and they could be included in Barry's book, too
Gary Senda
Well-known member
Segarza;1424531 or just set it to Autofocus[/quote said:
Beat Takeshi
Two-Hip Shakur
I think the lens should not move at all when you touch it shock mount or not.
Steve Smull
Active member
DVXuser Shop could sell the shims...and they could be included in Barry's book, too
The shims could BE Barry's book. "Addendum: remove back cover, trim to fit lens"
atlfilmguy
Well-known member
I just performed a test similiar to Segarza's with the HPX170 and the HVX200.
Results:
HPX170 - There is movement in the image EXACTLY like the experiment performed by Segarza. I tried every way I could to get it to stay steady and could only do it at a VERY slow and feather touch turn of the foucus wheel from both sides with both hands.
If you adjust focus at full or mostly full telephoto you will get lateral movement in the image. I tried to start at the top, the bottom, and the side and had movement from each position.
I even tried to pull focus using my finger on the top or the bottom of the focus ring for the same focus pull, the shift was equal in both directions.
HVX200- No movement. The only way to get the HVX image to move was to grab the lens cover and pull and push pretty hard. Focus, no matter how fast or hard I manipulated the focus ring did not change the image at all.
CONCLUSION,
The lateral movement seen in the image of the HPX170 will render the idea of pulling focus with the stock camera useless. To get the shallow depth of field with the stock camera to make pulling focus worth it you need to zoom in to the point that the lateral movement is distracting.
In light of this the HPX will only be useful to me and others as a 35MM adapter camera.
I am troubled that this camera is basically half of the camera I bought because of this issue.
Even though this shock mount has been referred to as a feature and is used properly in the HVX and DVX lines, it is OVERDONE in the HPX170 line and needs to be addressed. A fully functional camera should be able to focus at full telephoto with no image movement.
This is painful for me because I really wanted this camera to be the camera for me.
Results:
HPX170 - There is movement in the image EXACTLY like the experiment performed by Segarza. I tried every way I could to get it to stay steady and could only do it at a VERY slow and feather touch turn of the foucus wheel from both sides with both hands.
If you adjust focus at full or mostly full telephoto you will get lateral movement in the image. I tried to start at the top, the bottom, and the side and had movement from each position.
I even tried to pull focus using my finger on the top or the bottom of the focus ring for the same focus pull, the shift was equal in both directions.
HVX200- No movement. The only way to get the HVX image to move was to grab the lens cover and pull and push pretty hard. Focus, no matter how fast or hard I manipulated the focus ring did not change the image at all.
CONCLUSION,
The lateral movement seen in the image of the HPX170 will render the idea of pulling focus with the stock camera useless. To get the shallow depth of field with the stock camera to make pulling focus worth it you need to zoom in to the point that the lateral movement is distracting.
In light of this the HPX will only be useful to me and others as a 35MM adapter camera.
I am troubled that this camera is basically half of the camera I bought because of this issue.
Even though this shock mount has been referred to as a feature and is used properly in the HVX and DVX lines, it is OVERDONE in the HPX170 line and needs to be addressed. A fully functional camera should be able to focus at full telephoto with no image movement.
This is painful for me because I really wanted this camera to be the camera for me.
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