Barry_Green
Moderator
Tell Panasonic Canada what you expect. Every territory sets their own pricing and packaging. The resellers can't really do anything about it, but Panasonic Canada could make your wishes come true if they so chose.
HPX170 - A Second Look
- Thread starter Barry_Green
- Start date
Elijah Lynn
New member
Workflow Class?
We are thinking of getting one of these from Spec-Com because it includes the book and another goodie.
I saw a workflow class in New York, Spetember 2008 for $600. I cannot find it again, can someone point me to the link of the class?
Thank You
We are thinking of getting one of these from Spec-Com because it includes the book and another goodie.
I saw a workflow class in New York, Spetember 2008 for $600. I cannot find it again, can someone point me to the link of the class?
Thank You
Looking to take the plunge into a HPX170
Looking to take the plunge into a HPX170
Well not sure if this is a dumb question or if this is the right place, but I'm new here so be easy on me, but here goes. I have been researching for a while now the hvx200 and hvx200a. Now with the apparent release of the HPX170, that looks like the way to go.
But my background in cameras is zero. I have never owned a digital camcorder, let alone a complex camera such as the HPX170. I am a quick learner and a electronics guru with computers and digital photography.
I have been wanting to learn cinematography and film techniques and maybe shoot a short documentary, film, music video, etc. I have an imac with fcp and have been teaching myself to use it in hopes of getting my new HPX170 soon.
Am I an idiot for thinking about the HPX170 as a beginner camera for me or should I backtrack and find something less sophisticated (AG-HMC150)??? I realize the expense, but figured I would invest in a camera I could grow into.
Thanks
The New Guy, Josh
Looking to take the plunge into a HPX170
Well not sure if this is a dumb question or if this is the right place, but I'm new here so be easy on me, but here goes. I have been researching for a while now the hvx200 and hvx200a. Now with the apparent release of the HPX170, that looks like the way to go.
But my background in cameras is zero. I have never owned a digital camcorder, let alone a complex camera such as the HPX170. I am a quick learner and a electronics guru with computers and digital photography.
I have been wanting to learn cinematography and film techniques and maybe shoot a short documentary, film, music video, etc. I have an imac with fcp and have been teaching myself to use it in hopes of getting my new HPX170 soon.
Am I an idiot for thinking about the HPX170 as a beginner camera for me or should I backtrack and find something less sophisticated (AG-HMC150)??? I realize the expense, but figured I would invest in a camera I could grow into.
Thanks
The New Guy, Josh
Elijah Lynn
New member
Hey new guy,
I was also thinking of the HVX200A (HVX200 discontinued) and then this guy pops up! Doesn't tape, uhm cool!
Only bug issue I see with these is that the storage medium is really taking off, yet. These cards are pricey.
We use an XL2 for greenscreen work right now and boy would it be nice to have the built in waveform, vectorscope monitors.
The way I see it is.. if you shoot something, don't you want it to be the best quality? Who doesn't? Even if it is a bloody wedding so be it! Shoot top notch super duper HD because some day we will look back and say gosh that resolution sucked! So shoot the best you can all the time.
I just want the cards to be cheaper, this is silly Panasonic. You know how many people are staying in the HDV realm because of this? I know I know, you don't have to buy tape! I hope the R&D is almost paid for soon because you need to make these affordable enough so you can litteraly afford to lose one.
Anyways, I want to buy one and take the workflow class.
Cheers,
Elijah
I was also thinking of the HVX200A (HVX200 discontinued) and then this guy pops up! Doesn't tape, uhm cool!
Only bug issue I see with these is that the storage medium is really taking off, yet. These cards are pricey.
We use an XL2 for greenscreen work right now and boy would it be nice to have the built in waveform, vectorscope monitors.
The way I see it is.. if you shoot something, don't you want it to be the best quality? Who doesn't? Even if it is a bloody wedding so be it! Shoot top notch super duper HD because some day we will look back and say gosh that resolution sucked! So shoot the best you can all the time.
I just want the cards to be cheaper, this is silly Panasonic. You know how many people are staying in the HDV realm because of this? I know I know, you don't have to buy tape! I hope the R&D is almost paid for soon because you need to make these affordable enough so you can litteraly afford to lose one.
Anyways, I want to buy one and take the workflow class.
Cheers,
Elijah
Barry, you already "did" the HMC150, how about doing the HPX170? I'm sure this will be a reallity, but since the HMC is, theoretically coming later than the HPX (2nd October vs " september for HPX), can you give us the " Green full Q&A" for the HPX170, final built (retail version)?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Yep, ask away, I can answer anything about the 170.
jpsheets
Well-known member
Actually the HPX 170 should be" easier " to work with then the hmc150 because you can edit the footage right away.
Right now I'm looking at the hmc 150 but I'm not totally sold I guess I might have to save more for the HXP170 after all.
Need to see some footage first and I'm looking @ the man who has the only working Hpx170 cam with him right now .
That's super close. I wouldn't count on it.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Some dealers might have stock. You'll have to call your local dealer and see if they have any unclaimed units that they've ordered. I wouldn't try a big dealer like B&H, I'm sure they're in backorders already.
I haven't been told any updated delivery time other than "September".
I haven't been told any updated delivery time other than "September".
Ok Barry, here goes
:The easy ones first:
1- Weight- Exactly like the DVX, or heavier? ( This question is for us with below 7kg weight support gear)
2- Any additional new features? Is the Pal/Ntsc thing free, like an official Panasonic Retailer said in DVinfo?
3- HD-SDI- Any chance for a Uncompressed screen grab vs DVCPRO HD 1080p vs the HMC's 1920x1080p?
4- How does it "feel" to you in therms of ergonomics, compared to the HVX and the competition?
5- Any chance for some grabs of the HPX's LCD with all focus assists options working? And How about a screen grab of the HPX with an adapter showing he LCD "flipped" ? This is a dream come true for many of us!
Now for the "hard" questions:
1- The Lens- this is my main concern- this smaller lens vs the original HVX- can you share with us the experience with this? Is this lens up to par vs the HVX one? (Chromatic aberrations, sharpness troughout zoom range/ iris range). Can we see the full telephoto comparison with the original HVX and the full wide angle?
I would also like to see, if it is possible, Barry, you trying to achieve a "shallow DOF at full/half telephoto with the HPX vs the HVX- this is what we normally do in "non adapter" situations- I would like to see how this smaller lens will affect the DOF.
2- Lens center- is your unit perfectly aligned? (the HVX is not well aligned, which is not so good for 35mm adapters). I don't particularly mind this, however. I've been working with a Brevis with my HVX and, altough I have to zoom slightly beyond the ideal, standard frame, its not much of a problem for framing.
3- The Sound- This is a tricky test because it varies from mic to mic- is the servo zoom "noisy", as to be captured by the on board mic/ shotgun mounted?
4- Does it "rattle" ?
I believe I went over my quota with these. Exciting times!
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Ok Barry, here goes
The easy ones first:
1- Weight- Exactly like the DVX, or heavier? ( This question is for us with below 7kg weight support gear)
2- Any additional new features? Is the Pal/Ntsc thing free, like an official Panasonic Retailer said in DVinfo?
3- HD-SDI- Any chance for a Uncompressed screen grab vs DVCPRO HD 1080p vs the HMC's 1920x1080p?
4- How does it "feel" to you in therms of ergonomics, compared to the HVX and the competition?
5- Any chance for some grabs of the HPX's LCD with all focus assists options working? And How about a screen grab of the HPX with an adapter showing he LCD "flipped" ? This is a dream come true for many of us!
Now for the "hard" questions:
1- The Lens- this is my main concern- this smaller lens vs the original HVX- can you share with us the experience with this? Is this lens up to par vs the HVX one? (Chromatic aberrations, sharpness troughout zoom range/ iris range). Can we see the full telephoto comparison with the original HVX and the full wide angle?
I would also like to see, if it is possible, Barry, you trying to achieve a "shallow DOF at full/half telephoto with the HPX vs the HVX- this is what we normally do in "non adapter" situations- I would like to see how this smaller lens will affect the DOF.
2- Lens center- is your unit perfectly aligned? (the HVX is not well aligned, which is not so good for 35mm adapters). I don't particularly mind this, however. I've been working with a Brevis with my HVX and, altough I have to zoom slightly beyond the ideal, standard frame, its not much of a problem for framing.
3- The Sound- This is a tricky test because it varies from mic to mic- is the servo zoom "noisy", as to be captured by the on board mic/ shotgun mounted?
4- Does it "rattle" ?
I believe I went over my quota with these. Exciting times!
SPZ:
I am sure that Barry will respond but have you read his two articles linked in this thread? Almost every question you ask has alreay been answered in the two articles.
Dan
Barry_Green
Moderator
1.9kg or 4.2 pounds. About 10% heavier than a DVX.
Perhaps, I don't remember where we left off with the feature list...
I'll have to review and see.No, and it never was. Whoever said that was talking without authorization. There are two upgrades available, either $300 (which apparently is subject to being "undone" by a future firmware update, for no reason which I can understand) or $500 for permanent, forever switchable.
I don't have access to an HD-SDI capture system, so ... nope.
As said in the post about the 150, it's ergonomically at least 100x better than the HVX200 and 1,000x better than the EX1. It's perfectly balanced and featherweight. All the buttons and switches are intuitively placed, and my only issue was that I kept expecting the buttons to be where they are on the HVX instead of adapting to where they are now. But it's streamlined and slick.
I don't use an upside-down adapter, so I can't work that one up for you. But it works exactly as you'd expect, the image is right-side up. BUT, when putting it in flip mode, you don't get menus or focus assists or waveform/vector on the flipped LCD.And How about a screen grab of the HPX with an adapter showing he LCD "flipped" ? This is a dream come true for many of us!
Looks at least as good as the HVX to me, so far. Only negative is that it ramps to 3.0 at full tele, instead of 2.8 on the HVX. But that's only about 1/6 of a stop difference. The wide angle is crazy wide.
I thought I already posted that? An animated GIF?
Actually it doesn't seem to have much of an effect at all, because it's not just a shorter focal length, it's combined with a bigger chip size. So even though you're using a wider angle, you have to get closer to get the equivalent field of view, which kind of negates the loss of shallow DOF from the wider angle. Does that make sense? If you want to see examples, look at my HMC150 footage, which uses the same chips and same lens, and you'll see several examples of shallow DOF there.
Haven't checked on the 170, but on the 150 it was a tad off center, so I wouldn't expect it to be any different on the 170.
I've used a preproduction unit (obviously, as the production units aren't done yet!) and it's noisier than my HVX. I don't know that that means anything though, as it's not a production unit. We'll have to check when the "finished" units are available.
Of course!4- Does it "rattle" ?
David Shawl
Active member
I have noticed people are still talking about the 170 being 1080P Progressive capable, I thought it was confirmed that it doesn't or at least can't do it in 24 native mode. Tons of Panasonic ads and press releases say 1080P, but I thought Jan said it would not be possible.
Thanks for the answers, Barry! All in all, it sounds absolutely fantastic!... Except for this:
... Why? ... This is so frustratingly funny- does this make sense?
Its like the panasonic engineers have fun teasing us with these "twists"... Its like they're saying: " You like the new dinamic range function, don't you? Well, its only for 50i/60i and 50p 60p work". Now, its " You wanted a better LCD, better focus assists and the LCD flip? OK, we give you everything plus some- but don't expect this to work with the flip on"...
Yes, this is not fundamental, but, heck, it just plain doesn't make sense ( I can understand the Dinamic Range Stretch not working in 24/25p, but this?...
I rant because without the flip, my Brevis is actually quite light, and on an HPX, bare, could be a very good lightweight handheld non intrusive rig. Not having the assists implies having to go either for the flip module (which then requires rails, another hassle) or an external focus monitor for focusing . I do have the BTLH80, so my issue is not actually about buying it, but how this small neglected aspect completely negates the advantage for low key adapter shooting!....
As for the Pal/NTSC switch, I'll happily pay for the 500 dollar upgrade. Its a bit ridiculous the 300 dollar upgrade, though... I don't like the "message" Panasonic is sending us with this. I believe Jan should come up with something clearer about this process. It just doesn't make sense Panasonic allowing this 300 upgrade and then state that "if you go this way, you might lose this function in a future update". it just sounds, well, fishy, to say the least.
And, Barry, do come up with a Review of the final build! And get yourself a capture box (maybe any fellow DVXUSER can help?) for those uncompressed grabs! Forget the HMC comparison, since we all know dvcpro HD's main advantage is in the motion rendering and color reproduction (not visible in still grabs), and let us just see the difference, of, say, an HVX200 Screen grab, an HPX170 Uncompressed grab and an HPX170 DVCPRO HD grab! Come on, Barry!
And, how about publishing your book overseas? Its impossible to get this book in Hong-Kong... Panasonic should actually have it everywhere these cameras are sold...
... Why? ... This is so frustratingly funny- does this make sense?
Its like the panasonic engineers have fun teasing us with these "twists"... Its like they're saying: " You like the new dinamic range function, don't you? Well, its only for 50i/60i and 50p 60p work". Now, its " You wanted a better LCD, better focus assists and the LCD flip? OK, we give you everything plus some- but don't expect this to work with the flip on"...
Yes, this is not fundamental, but, heck, it just plain doesn't make sense ( I can understand the Dinamic Range Stretch not working in 24/25p, but this?...
I rant because without the flip, my Brevis is actually quite light, and on an HPX, bare, could be a very good lightweight handheld non intrusive rig. Not having the assists implies having to go either for the flip module (which then requires rails, another hassle) or an external focus monitor for focusing . I do have the BTLH80, so my issue is not actually about buying it, but how this small neglected aspect completely negates the advantage for low key adapter shooting!....
As for the Pal/NTSC switch, I'll happily pay for the 500 dollar upgrade. Its a bit ridiculous the 300 dollar upgrade, though... I don't like the "message" Panasonic is sending us with this. I believe Jan should come up with something clearer about this process. It just doesn't make sense Panasonic allowing this 300 upgrade and then state that "if you go this way, you might lose this function in a future update". it just sounds, well, fishy, to say the least.
And, Barry, do come up with a Review of the final build! And get yourself a capture box (maybe any fellow DVXUSER can help?) for those uncompressed grabs! Forget the HMC comparison, since we all know dvcpro HD's main advantage is in the motion rendering and color reproduction (not visible in still grabs), and let us just see the difference, of, say, an HVX200 Screen grab, an HPX170 Uncompressed grab and an HPX170 DVCPRO HD grab! Come on, Barry!
And, how about publishing your book overseas? Its impossible to get this book in Hong-Kong... Panasonic should actually have it everywhere these cameras are sold...
Last edited by a moderator:
Barry_Green
Moderator
It is 1080P and always has been and always will be. The camera creates all images in progressive mode -- it can't even DO interlace! It has to simulate interlaced recording by slicing up its internal 1080/60P signal into fields and recording those!
It is 1080P and always has been. The recording format of DVCPRO-HD doesn't support direct 1080P "native" recording, so pulldown frames are introduced, and your nonlinear editor strips them back out, and what you end up with on your timeline is pure progressive 1080p footage.