hpx vs ex1

Lindquist

Lindquist

Veteran
just wondering why the price is $2200 more for an ex1?
i like the hpx because its a bit smaller, but i wanted to know more about the ex1
 
Lindquist said:
just wondering why the price is $2200 more for an ex1?
i like the hpx because its a bit smaller, but i wanted to know more about the ex1
Click to expand...
Different brands, different pricing policies.
The EX1R also is a very recent update, maybe the NAB brings the same for the HPX and prices will get closer again.
Recording media is another issue and depending on special bundle deals the cameras may end up similar in price.

As for the difference of the cameras itself and why you would choose the one over the other (and thus maybe spend more or less) have a look around the 100 threads here, discussing this... :cheesy:
 
off the top of my head. the ex1 has a much better lcd screen. Its really not a deal breaker for me though.
 
I assume the HPX170 and ex1r are the cameras being discussed...

Larger screen, larger chips, full resolution chips, newer design, SDI and HDMI ports, better sensitivity, better resolving power.
 
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PerroneFord said:
This comment is just ridiculous.
Click to expand...

How so ? I have never failed to see folks commenting on how organic and film like panasonic cameras make. From the dvx-es to the hpx-es granted they are not as sharp as the Sonys, and to me* tht is actually its key strength and preference. And yes i used to own n operate the EX 1.
 
What Perrone means (I presume) is because the EX1 delivers a much sharper picture than any t2i does, and that the t2i isn't in any way comparable to an EX1 as a video camera goes.
 
Barry_Green said:
What Perrone means (I presume) is because the EX1 delivers a much sharper picture than any t2i does, and that the t2i isn't in any way comparable to an EX1 as a video camera goes.
Click to expand...

Bingo. And not saying anything MORE than that. Put "sharp" in a sentence with EX1 and T2i and one of these things doesn't fit.
 
Lindquist said:
just wondering why the price is $2200 more for an ex1?
i like the hpx because its a bit smaller, but i wanted to know more about the ex1
Click to expand...

Ahhhh! The age old question of which one to get. First, you have some questions to ask yourself. At these prices... all cameras have compromises. You first have to know which one you can live with. The first three questions you have to ask yourself are:

What type of work will you be doing? That will determine a lot.

CCD or CMOS? If you know the difference between both, then you probably have a preference already. The question here is, can you live with CMOS's rolling shutter? (flashbanding and skewing) The EX1 has bigger chips, higher resolution and is full raster. Bigger the better? Well that is debatable, but everything is relative. Think of a chain's weakest link. I personally am not a fan of Sony's imagery. It is shaper, but it looses it's edge due to it's codec. Not to mention rolling shutter issues. If you do events, where you have lots of photographer flashes, you'll be hard pressed to have descent material to edit with. If you do fast action sports, zoomed in, the wobble and skewing might bother you a lot. If you shoot fiction, or any other controlled environment gigs, then CMOS will shine. If the above examples bother you, then go CCD.

DVCProHD or XDCAM EX? 100Mpbs 4:2:2 i-frame, vs 35Mpbs 4:2:0 long-gop. If you know what these mean, then you probably already have a preference already. DVCProHD has more color information and is ideal for keying and pristine color reproduction. Editing is a breeze with almost any NLE and computers moderately equipped. It's draw back? File sizes and it's not a full raster codec. XDCAM EX has some pitfalls with fast motion because of it's MPEG2 compression. It requires a faster computer to edit easily, and although you can key with it, it's not ideal. I've edited with both. And if you need to add a filter to long-gop footage, it's render-render-render time! Not so with DVCProHD (again, relative to the task). I prefer non full raster 4:2:2 i-frame codecs any time over full raster 4:2:0 long-gop codecs.

My opinon? XDCAM is good. I've worked with it. But I prefer the tried and true DVCProHD codec by far. I don't like to look too closely at XDCAM footage, I see dead people... huuu... I mean, I see things I don't like (MPEG2 artifacts). As for sensors, I often do press conferences and other events. Flashbanding annoys the hell out of me. And although I've learned to shoot to compensate for skewing, I find that annoying as well. So that leaves me with one choice.... the 3CCD HPX170 as the winner.

Heck... I know I'm going to get flammed! But hey! It's my opinion. I've said it! I warned it was.... so all you Sony lovers... deal with it!

Frederic

PS: Do consider the ergonomics of the camera also. It's more important then you think. Try them both, work with them. Rent them for gigs. And you'll know which one is right for you.
 
If you get flamed, it won't be because of your opinion, it will be because of oft perpetuated wives tales and half-truths. I am not a Sony fan or a Panasonic fan. I am a camera fan, and own cameras from both companies. Actually 2 Panasonics, 1 Sony, and one Canon.

CMOS has it's limitations, as does CCD. They are different limitations. Rolling shutter is a solveable problem. So is flashbanding. In fact, Panasonic has solved the flashband issue in-camera, and Sony in it's conversion/download software. So that's moot.

Codec is bypassable if necessary. SDI and HDMI ports right on the camera. If it's not good enough, you can record with an AJA Ki Pro, or a NanoFlash, or a Wafian, or whatever meets your needs. There's no way around the smaller sensor in the Panasonic camera, nor around it's resolution.

Wobble and skew are grossly overrated. I've shot roller derby handheld while spinning around and following a skater doing 15mph. No wobble or skew issues.

DVCProHD is 1280x1080. XDCam is 1920x1080. The 4:2:2 of DVCProHD is marginally better. It really is. But that gap is awfully darn small. On the order of 10% more information. Not the wide gap you seem to purport here.

I will also disagree that you need a faster computer to edit XDCam than DVCProHD. In my experience they handle about the same. And honestly, this non Long-GOP editing stuff is a strawman argument in a pro environment anyway. If you're going into Edius, both will be converted to CanopusHQ, going into FCP they are going to be ProRes, and going into Avid they will be DNxHD. So it's really pretty pointless to argue about the color space come edit time, or argue edit speed. They'll be exactly the same.

I do agree about ergonomics, but honestly, most pros are going to have these cameras on sticks, on a stabilizer, or a shoulder mount. Darn few pros walk around with a bare camera in their hands like a tourist taking shaky-cam video. The waveform monitor in the HPX is a darn handy feature though. Wish I had that on the EX1. Not sure if the EX1r adds it or not.

These same ridiculous arguments happen over, and over, and over again. And the fanboism is just silly. Both are great cams, both can get you pro level footage. Buy one and go shoot.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go prep for my film shoot tomorrow...

-P




Flintstone said:
Ahhhh! The age old question of which one to get. First, you have some questions to ask yourself. At these prices... all cameras have compromises. You first have to know which one you can live with. The first three questions you have to ask yourself are:

What type of work will you be doing? That will determine a lot.

CCD or CMOS? If you know the difference between both, then you probably have a preference already. The question here is, can you live with CMOS's rolling shutter? (flashbanding and skewing) The EX1 has bigger chips, higher resolution and is full raster. Bigger the better? Well that is debatable, but everything is relative. Think of a chain's weakest link. I personally am not a fan of Sony's imagery. It is shaper, but it looses it's edge due to it's codec. Not to mention rolling shutter issues. If you do events, where you have lots of photographer flashes, you'll be hard pressed to have descent material to edit with. If you do fast action sports, zoomed in, the wobble and skewing might bother you a lot. If you shoot fiction, or any other controlled environment gigs, then CMOS will shine. If the above examples bother you, then go CCD.

DVCProHD or XDCAM EX? 100Mpbs 4:2:2 i-frame, vs 35Mpbs 4:2:0 long-gop. If you know what these mean, then you probably already have a preference already. DVCProHD has more color information and is ideal for keying and pristine color reproduction. Editing is a breeze with almost any NLE and computers moderately equipped. It's draw back? File sizes and it's not a full raster codec. XDCAM EX has some pitfalls with fast motion because of it's MPEG2 compression. It requires a faster computer to edit easily, and although you can key with it, it's not ideal. I've edited with both. And if you need to add a filter to long-gop footage, it's render-render-render time! Not so with DVCProHD (again, relative to the task). I prefer non full raster 4:2:2 i-frame codecs any time over full raster 4:2:0 long-gop codecs.

My opinon? XDCAM is good. I've worked with it. But I prefer the tried and true DVCProHD codec by far. I don't like to look too closely at XDCAM footage, I see dead people... huuu... I mean, I see things I don't like (MPEG2 artifacts). As for sensors, I often do press conferences and other events. Flashbanding annoys the hell out of me. And although I've learned to shoot to compensate for skewing, I find that annoying as well. So that leaves me with one choice.... the 3CCD HPX170 as the winner.

Heck... I know I'm going to get flammed! But hey! It's my opinion. I've said it! I warned it was.... so all you Sony lovers... deal with it!

Frederic

PS: Do consider the ergonomics of the camera also. It's more important then you think. Try them both, work with them. Rent them for gigs. And you'll know which one is right for you.
Click to expand...
 
wow thanks alot guys!

your awesome im going to lurk the hpx/ex1 threads.

still goin with the hpx170 16gb p2 and 2 batteries for $3300 since
its much cheaper than a ex1 and then save up for a nice 7d or t2i.

best forum for video ive ever been on good work guys.

im about to go out and eat dinner but ill be back later and give you guys a better
depth of what i plan on doing.
 
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A guy on here msg'd me and said he saw that i was looking for one, and said that he is in no
hurry to sell it.

so that gives me enough time to sell my vx2100 and get around $2000 from my work.

he did want $3800 for it but i noticed that b&h has them for $3995 brand new with 16gb p2 card so he said he would do $3600 then we talked again and the final price is $3300 for it
and for 389 hours on it i am for shure 110% buying it once i get the cash in hand since we are local.
 
I mostly will be doing weddings , event work, sports, surfing, skating, and everything inbetween
no real big films or anything yet.

http://www.vimeo.com/jason808

my current portfolio with my vx2100 ive had for the past 6 years.

I take it ill be getting a hpx170 with ccd's. and wow rolling shutter issues with a $6000 Camer!!?
i thought that was only with all the new dslr's

Looks like hpx suits me best, since i dont want rolling shutter and i want dvcprohd no excam ex
so DVCPROHD - 100mpbs 4:2:2 I-Frame. Dvcprohd all the way!

EXCAM EX 35mbps 4:2:0 Long Gop

This is my pc setup:

Sony VEGAS 9 Pro
Adobe CS4 Suite

Intel 2.66Ghz Dual Core
2GB DDR2 (Upgrading to 4gb of ram) 6GB total should be fine with dvcprohd?
640MB 8800GTS

(Buying 1 or 2 1TB external harddrives)

and yes almost every aspect of the ex1 i dislike now ALOT! lol.
i mean mpeg2 codecs with artifacts. nonono! very nice looking camera tho, im happy now i can save alot of money by going
with a hpx170.
and yes, the ergonomics are important to me i want somthing light and easy to use and the hpx is much smaller than the ex1. it looks like, Since im going to LA in a few months i suppose i can ask the guy who im buying
my hpx170 from if i can rent it from him for one day and see if i like it, witch i know ill be in love the
moment i get to hold it, whats a good price for a single day rental? and what would you guys recommend as
accessories for the hpx? im thinkin a nice pelican case, filter, "ticks, on a stabilizer, or a shoulder mount" Perroneford
said, rode ntg 2 mic, nice tripod, fisheye lens.

the thing is i dont have a computer in california, so if he kept the p2 card and stored all the footage on his computer,
would he be able to send me the actual p2 files i recorded when i rented it from him? so then i can get home
use my raylight to see how it works and start editing it in vegas.
 
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Lindquist said:
the thing is i dont have a computer in california, so if he kept the p2 card and stored all the footage on his computer,
would he be able to send me the actual p2 files i recorded when i rented it from him? so then i can get home
use my raylight to see how it works and start editing it in vegas.
Click to expand...
See if he'll burn a DVD-ROM for you, or find someone who can. Or bring a portable USB hard drive with you.
 
damn!

yeah well i can just get a dvd-rom i guess since i dont have a portable hard drive.
my brother has a 16gb flash drive, would that work?

because if he put the p2 files directly onto a dvd wouldnt there be quality loss or am i missing somthing because its all in the file?
 
Flash drive would work just fine.

No quality loss, it's all just computer data. Just copy it from the card to the flash drive and you're set.
 
sweet, yeah i hope he doesnt ask for like $3000 to hold while i rent it for one day.
maybe if hes not busy i can hang with em for a few hours and get some footage.

ill see whatsup.

yeah so just copy the p2 data to the 16gb flash drive , i have a 1gb flash drive would that be enough to hold like 20-30 min of footage?
if not my brothers will do fine


Thanks

Jason
 
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