C100: How to sync timecode on C100Mk2 and Zoom F4

[JAMedia]

Hi
I am doing audio with a Zoom Z4, the cameras are C100 Mk2's

Does anyone have any practical solutions for time-code syncing the F4 and C100?

The current suggested work around is a mic on the C100's to do a guide track and use a clapper board with verbal scene/shot/take to help.
Anyone got a better, or additional, idea?

I have already suggested the production assistant watches this.
Thanks
Chris

 

[Alex H.]

First off, I love that you linked that video. An oldie but a goodie, and something that’s iconic to Tarantino films in its own way. Regarding your question, I also love that you linked that video because it reinforces the idea that time code isn’t actually all that necessary for narrative work. She uses a dumb slate, and that’s notable because production time code is traditionally a sound department thing on film sets (when used at all). It’s becoming more common now, but I really feel that’s simply because digital cinema cameras have it available.

As per the C100 mkII... it is unfortunate that this camera simply has no way to sync time code to an external source. Canon have been terrible about this on their cinema bodies, to be honest. It’s not even a feature they reserve for a certain price point. Rather, it seems arbitrary which bodies they choose to equip with TC in and out. There is a solution, sort of, but it takes a little attention in post. First question: does your post workflow absolutely require time code?

If the F4 and a time code slate are jammed together, you’ll have a solid reference point in post. Just make sure that every shot is slated for both cameras and that someone is taking thorough shot logging notes on set. Most NLEs now also have built-in file linking that will use audio to match camera and sound files automatically.

Tentacle Sync E time code boxes can be fed to audio inputs on the cameras and recorded as LTC audio. Jam them from the F4, or keep an extra Sync E in the audio bag to jam the F4. In post, many NLEs have the ability to convert audio LTC to usable time code. Or, Tentacle offer their own app (Tentacle Sync Studio) that can do that prior to importing video to edit.

 

[JAMedia]

Thanks for the comments. Unfortunately it is a dumb slate like the ones in the video. So only the F4 will be running a time code.

Well if it worked for Tarantino, and everyone else for decades, we will have to do it the Traditional way. Unless the camera guys want to get themselves the Tentacle Sync E boxes.

Fortunately the F4 has a comprehensive (Oh my god... where did I put the manual ) directory and file naming system. So we should be able to load them by Scene/shot/take. Then the NLE should be able to help with matching the audio. I am recommending that they use a mic on the cameras to record a guide track.

Thanks for confirming what I suspected. IT was too much to hope that a $5 cable and some obscure menu options would solve the problem.

 

[Alex H.]

Well if it worked for Tarantino, and everyone else for decades, we will have to do it the Traditional way. Unless the camera guys want to get themselves the Tentacle Sync E boxes.

Time code boxes are sound department responsibility. On the plus side, a 2-pack of Sync E boxes isn’t terribly expensive. But yeah, the dumb slate has been the standard since the talkies first came about.

Fortunately the F4 has a comprehensive (Oh my god... where did I put the manual ) directory and file naming system. So we should be able to load them by Scene/shot/take. Then the NLE should be able to help with matching the audio. I am recommending that they use a mic on the cameras to record a guide track.

Definitely a scratch track on the camera.

I’m a Sound Devices user, so not as well-versed on the Zoom F-series recorders, but for narrative work I always name each file by scene and take (US standard... I know you all have the scene-shot-take standard in the UK). As long as shots are properly slated and match the file names, post should have absolutely no issue sorting things out.

Also very important to keeping things navigable in post: sound file metadata and sound reports. You can add lots of useful information to each file, and generate a sound report at the end of each day that gives post a spreadsheet full of detailed info on each take.

 

[JAMedia]

Time code boxes are sound department responsibility. On the plus side, a 2-pack of Sync E boxes isn’t terribly expensive. But yeah, the dumb slate has been the standard since the talkies first came about.

I got time code on my F4... it's the camera guys who don't have the cameras to handle it (and I am sticking to that )

Definitely a scratch track on the camera.

Every time. it is lunacy not to.

I’m a Sound Devices user, so not as well-versed on the Zoom F-series recorders, but for narrative work I always name each file by scene and take (US standard... I know you all have the scene-shot-take standard in the UK). As long as shots are properly slated and match the file names, post should have absolutely no issue sorting things out.

As long as sound, camera and editor all use the SAME system it will be fine... (miracles do happen )

Also very important to keeping things navigable in post: sound file metadata and sound reports. You can add lots of useful information to each file, and generate a sound report at the end of each day that gives post a spreadsheet full of detailed info on each take.

Thanks for the reminder on that. Curtis does some very useful videos.

Chris

 

[Jim Feeley]

I got time code on my F4... it's the camera guys who don't have the cameras to handle it (and I am sticking to that )

That's why you hand the cameras timecode boxes such as Tentacle Sync, Denecke JB-1, or Ambient Nanolockit. And also the necessary cables. And then charge production a rental fee on each box.

If you're rolling with a slate, consider adding a tail slate if you have especially long takes, or if you forget to slate the head of the take. Typically, a tail slate starts upside-down (so the editor knows the info if for what occurred before the slate), then you clap, then flip right-side up so the editor can read the information. As things get woolly on a shoot, tail slates can really help.

But what does post want, in terms of sync information? A quick chat with the editor or post supe can help make for smooth sailing...

 

[JAMedia]

That's why you hand the cameras timecode boxes such as Tentacle Sync, Denecke JB-1, or Ambient Nanolockit. And also the necessary cables. And then charge production a rental fee on each box.

I am not full time audio. I am just helping out with my F4 & mic's If I was full time audio it would make more sense to have the sync boxes.

If you're rolling with a slate, consider adding a tail slate if you have especially long takes, or if you forget to slate the head of the take. Typically, a tail slate starts upside-down (so the editor knows the info if for what occurred before the slate), then you clap, then flip right-side up so the editor can read the information. As things get woolly on a shoot, tail slates can really help.

Always use a tail slate. It is a hang over from something else I do where you need a positive identifiable stop point.

But what does post want, in terms of sync information? A quick chat with the editor or post supe can help make for smooth sailing...

Good idea. Not sure I like this idea of actually communicating with people....

 

[Alex H.]

Not sure I like this idea of actually communicating with people....

We had a saying at my old TV station: “Communication is our business. It’s not what we do.”

 

[Jim Feeley]

We had a saying at my old TV station: “Communication is our business. It’s not what we do.”

Ha!

Chris, there's a reason we're all behind the camera. And email is your friend.

Also, I hate spending money too, so I hear you on the TC box. But if you could find a used first-gen Tentacle or something, it might be worthwhile. Perhaps not for this gig, but down then line when you're working on something you're producing/directing.

Have a great shoot!

 

[puredrifting]

I have to say, I have three Tentacle Sync Es. They work GREAT. But I have done dozens of shoots where I was too busy/lazy to use them with multiple cams or a cam and my SD Mix Pre III and FCP X has never had any issue quickly and painlessly syncing it all perfectly.
As you allude to, keeping track of takes, file names and how the video and audio files correspond with naming convention is MUCH more involved than just syncing up disparate audio sources in almost all modern NLEs.

I love my Sync Es but I have to say, in a way, they are almost superfluous in MY OWN multicam/source work that I am going to shoot AND edit.
However for client work, clients expect matching TC from disparate devices so they are great to have for the client work that needs that.