how to power your lightis outside?

Looks great and can't believe that price. The only drawback between that and the Bescor models is you'd have to make your own 4 pin XLR cable. Not sure what type of connector they use on their current DC output and it also doesn't say on the Amazon listing exactly what the DC output is in the specs so you should also double check that its within the LED 600s input specs but probably should be.
 
The 12v output on these sorts of things in the cigarette lighter variety. Pro lights usually work with AntonBauer or V-mount batteries which are a lot easier to deal with, attaching to the fixture itself.

I have a 20a/hr Sears version and it is a very handy item, but I haven't used it for lights. Yes one can power a CFL or LED box for an hour or two. But it's doubtful that would be enough light for a band in even a medium-sized outdoor night setting. Close intervews, yes. They generally just don't throw enough light far enough.

Since Cool Lights were mentioned, check out their own Specifications chart showing the dropoff in light from even 2 ft to 6 ft.
http://www.coollights.biz/clled600-panel-p-114.html

Also, if your shoot is not a quick one, the recharge time for these power units is longer than the runtime with lights would be. So you might need 2 or 3 of these even if you had an available charging outlet, which of course would mean you could plug the lights in!

Since you are planning a parking lot or street scene anyway, I'd definitely look into finding a way to use headlights in an artistic way so that it is obvious they are the source of the light.

So, nice skyline + semi-lit environment + headlights + borrowed generator = MTV award.
 
EDP said:
Chris, thanks for the hint on the Xantrex.

What do you think of Bescor power belts or equivalents?
Click to expand...


After my fancy-schmancy Anton Bauer NMH or whatever it was took a dump, I got a Bescor BEPRB154NC PRB-154NC Starved Electrolyte Battery Belt (12v, 14.4 amp hours) battery belt and I love it. It's a simple lead-acid belt, so you can charge it whenever you want and it should have a long lifespan.

That Xantrex 600HD is about twice the amp-hour rating as that belt, but the belt is a bit more functional on location and costs about a third as much. Of course, the Xantrex unit would allow for use of 120 volt ac stuff (tungsten lighting), but not monitors or certain electronic equipment.

But then, with something like this, you could power monitors, decks, etc. too.

.
 
Chris Santucci said:
OK, the OP (I seem to recall) mentioned the Coollights LED600 which as far as I can tell is a 12 volt DC capable fixture drawing very little current.

The Xantrex 600HD unit provides 12 volt DC power. So... there. .
Click to expand...

I was simply trying to help Meauounj out. He stated quite clearly in the OP that he was looking for suggestions "outside" of battery powered lights.

meauounji said:
My question is: how do you power your lights when you're outside on location outside of battery powered lights?
Click to expand...

So I assumed you were suggesting the Xantrex 600HD for its inverting capacity. Sorry. No offense was intended. He did however also state quite clearly that it is a Low-to-no budget

meauounji said:
Sigh....I had a feeling this wasn't going to be simple. Please allow me to elaborate on my "user requirements"

1. Low-to-no budget. We're talking less than $1000 to go around for the whole production.
Click to expand...

For that reason, the suggestion below to rent a tow generator is not practical.

Chris Santucci said:
If more power is actually needed, you can rent a small towable power plant that provides true sine wave power from United Rentals or any similar industrial rental company and tow it with a cheapo U-Haul truck with a towing hitch.
Click to expand...

The cost of a diesel tow generator and the U-Haul rental truck to tow it (which incidentally U-Haul does not allow) will eat up nearly half the budget for the whole production and he still doesn’t have lights. It is clear that battery operated LEDs will simply not cut it. So the only option, and his original question, is:

meauounji said:
Do most people just use home-depot generators or something?
Click to expand...

To answer his original question: Yes you can use a home-depot generator, but only if you are using incandescent lights (not the most efficient source) and you are not using the generator as your primary supply for tech and you are not recording sound. If you want to use other lights sources like HMIs, Fluorescents, & CLF lamp banks , it matters not only what type of generator you use but also what type of HMI & fluorescent ballasts you use. The harmonic noise that magnetic and non-PFC electronic ballasts both HMI & Kino) kick back into the power stream can have a severe adverse effect on the power waveform of conventional AVR generators like those that are available at a home depot. The harmonic noise these light sources generate will not nearly have as bad an effect on the power supplied by an inverter generator like the Honda EU6500is mentioned above. For more details on what type of generator to use with HMIs and fluorescent lights see the following thread: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=58422&page=4

Use this link -
www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html for more information about using inverter generators with transformers for motion picture lighting.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip , Boston
 
nejuicer said:
I was simply trying to help Meauounj out. He stated quite clearly in the OP that he was looking for suggestions "outside" of battery powered lights.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think you were simply trying to sell goods and services more than anything, but whatever.

nejuicer said:
The cost of a diesel tow generator and the U-Haul rental truck to tow it (which incidentally U-Haul does not allow) will eat up nearly half the budget for the whole production and he still doesn’t have lights.
Click to expand...

You CAN use a U-Haul truck to tow generators - I've done it. And a 25 KW plant is probably around $150/$175 per day to rent. So you're looking at maybe $40/Day for a 14' U-Haul truck (with insurance) and a few hundred for fuel and the plant, so all that is still less than $300/Day and you have a truck on top of it to haul gear with and work out of.

What pray-tell would this cost to rent with all the attendant distro and a vehicle to move it with I wonder, and where can anyone even rent this stuff outside of the New England area?:

60A_Transformer-Distro_Honda_WebPS.jpg



.
 
Last edited:
Blutarski said:
Just curious has anyone used one of these? Is it worth the purchase? http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-Technologies-802- 500-Watt/dp/B00005RHQQ
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According to Xantrax’s website the 1500W Powerpack is also a “Modified Sine Wave” inverter and therefore not good for anything but quartz lights - not the most efficient of sources. “Modified Sine Wave”, “Psuedo Sine Wave”, and “Cycloconverter” are all sales terms used for a modified square wave type of AC power generated by inverters with limited switching capacity. Modified square wave (MSW) inverters are low in cost and will satisfactorily operate almost all common household appliances and power tools. For this reason, MSW inverters are the most prevalent and the ones typically used in the economy RV/Residential Standby and Industrial lines of inverter generators. Unfortunately, they are not suitable for use in motion picture production except for the powering of quartz lights. A modified square wave will cause sensitive electronic equipment (computers, hard drives, video cameras) to overheat, and will cause electronic HMI and Fluorescent light ballasts to kick harmonic noise back into the power stream. Furthermore, electrical components that depend on the peak value of the voltage waveform to operate effectively (the diode-capacitor power supplies in computers, hard drives, and electronic HMI ballasts, as well as the bridge rectifiers of battery chargers) will not operate effectively on a modified square wave. For a more detailed explanation of what makes an inverter suitable for motion picture production, see the following thread: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=137712.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip , Boston
 
It was funny, I saw this thread about generators, saw Chris's name, and figured...by page 4, he's gotta be gettin' into it with nejuicer.

Guess I'm a good guesser. :)
 
I agree nejuicer provides us with valuable information and he is very knowledgeable about generators. However, I agree with Chris, his postings seem to be very self serving.
 
Chris Santucci said:
Actually, I think you were simply trying to sell goods and services more than anything, but whatever. .
Click to expand...

I resent the implication of this post. This post impugns my motives for posting by suggesting they amount to advertizing. I don’t see how my original post below cautioning meauounji that not all inverters are suitable for production applications constitutes advertising or how it is self serving.

nejuicer said:
Barry is right. You have to be really careful when choosing a DC-to-AC inverter for film production because there are three basic types of inverters and not all of them are suitable for production applications. …
Click to expand...

And I don’t see how this post - http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=197550 - is self serving.

Yes, I have posted extensively on the harmonic noise generated by HMIs, and fluorescent fixtures because it is a problem that is becoming more prevalent. Chris’ post seems to imply that I am trying to sell an ignorant public a product they don’t need by scaremongering, when in fact I am only trying to raise an awareness of the adverse effect that an increase in harmonic noise as a result of a change in lighting technology, the introduction of Switch Mode Power Supplies (SMPS), is having on set power. But, don't just take my word for it: apparently, harmonics generated by SMPSs when using a generator for lighting is enough of a problem to warrant several sections in the third edition of the "Set Lighting Technicianís Handbook." To quote Harry Box (Page 337 under "Power Problems from Electronic Loads"):

"Much of today's lighting technology relies on electronics such as DC rectifiers (electronic HMI ballasts), silicone-controlled rectifiers (SCRs), capacitors (magnetic & electronic HMI ballasts), and high-frequency switching power supplies (the IGBTs of electronic ballasts). These kinds of load can have undesirable effects on the current waveform, revealing themselves in the form of overheating or failing equipment , efficiency losses, circuit breaker trips, excessive current on the neutral wire, interference and instability with generators, noisy or overheating transformers and service equipment, and even loosened electrical connections. In the following sections, we discuss the power factor and current harmonics and look at their effects. Your awareness of these effects will help you to build systems that avoid or mitigate problems and show how to test for problems.(the parenthesis are mine)"

Now does this sound like harmonics is not an increasing problem when using a generator for lighting and I am just "scaremongering"? If at times it sounds like I am hyping the Honda Inverter generators and power factor corrected lights, it is not because we sell and rent the technology. Rather, it is because, as a professional gaffer of numerous low budget historical documentaries for PBS, Discovery, TLC, and the History Channel, I feel other low budget productions can benefit as well from the low line noise they offer. Believe it or not, I try not to do any marketing in my posts. But, Chris has asked explicitly:

Chris Santucci said:
What pray-tell would this cost to rent with all the attendant distro and a vehicle to move it with I wonder?
Click to expand...

Since you ask, our rental rates for what you have pictured above is as follows.

Modified Honda EU6500is Generator $150.00
60A Transformer/Distro $35.00
50’ Twistlock Extension $5.00
__________________________________

Total $190.00

You don’t need to rent a special tow vehicle because everything will fit in the back of any station wagon or hatchback. I don’t know about where you are, but here in Massachusetts, in order to operate a diesel generator, you have to have an electrician pull an electrical permit and be present when the electrical inspector inspects your distribution and grounding. As you can see below, to operate a diesel generator legally (to code) so that your liability insurance is not nullified adds considerably to the expense of diesel generators. You do not have to pull a permit to operate a portable gas generator which is a tremendous savings.

25KVA Diesel Tow Generator $175.00
UHaul Truck $75.00
300A 3 Phase Distro, Feed Thru $35.00
50' #2 Banded 3-Wire plus Ground $13.50
50' #2 Single Wire Ground $3.00
Electrical Permit $75.00
Electrician’s Fee to Pull Permit & meet with Inspector $500.00
__________________________________

Total $876.50


Chris Santucci said:
….. and where can anyone even rent this stuff outside of the New England area?
Click to expand...

We can ship systems anywhere in the US and our systems are available in all major film production markets:

Phoenix, AZ
St. Louis, MO
Boca Raton, FL
Chicago, Il
Sherman Oaks, CA
Los Angeles, CA
Brooklynn, NY
New York City, NY
Ocean, NJ
Boston, MA

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip , Boston
 
*sigh*

As for renting a low cost generator, I do it all the time sans fees and inspectors, and all you'd really need additionally unless you're powering big stuff is maybe a 50' 6/3-8/1 50 AMP Power Supply Cord, and a temporary power distribution center.

All that is easily less than $400/Day to rent locally on my planet.

.
 
Chris Santucci said:
... all you'd really need additionally unless you're powering big stuff is maybe a 50' 6/3-8/1 50 AMP Power Supply Cord, and a temporary power distribution center.
Click to expand...

This little Edison break out box is not comparable to the Transformer/ Distro you pictured because the Edison Box is not capable of powering "big stuff" whereas our Transformer/ Distro creates a single 60A circuit out of our modified EU6500is that is capable of powering "Big Stuff" like HMIs up to 4k and Quartz Lights up to 6K. That is why in my cost comparison I quoted a 300A Distro and #2 banded because that is what you would need to run those lights off a small diesel construction generator.

Chris Santucci said:
As for renting a low cost generator, I do it all the time sans fees and inspectors.
Click to expand...

And I tie into building service heads all the time, but I would never never be so irresponsible to suggest in a forum like this that someone do it themselves. When you are talking about a 25KVA generator like the one you are suggesting proper distribution of electricity can be a matter of life and death. For this reason just about all municipalities in this country require a licensed electrician to pull a permit and oversee the electrical distribution of power from a generator. And they require an electrical inspector to inspect the distribution and grounding of the generator to assure that it conforms to the National Electrical Code. All of us, at times, cut corners and do not always conform to the letter of the law, but I would never recommend that others do so. You can *sigh* and make light of these issues, but readers should be aware that If you do not follow Code you can be criminally prosecuted if anyone is injured. I would bet that if you asked your municipal Electrical Inspector if you needed a permit to do what you have been doing the answer would be yes. Even if your municipal code is one of the few that does not require a permit to operate a diesel generator, the fact that most municipal codes do require a permit is reason enough not to make the recommendations you have made in this forum. If on your recommendation some kid thinks he is not required to pull a permit when in fact he is, and he thinks all he needs is your little break out box to operate a generator safely (and it isn't), and someone is fatally shocked on his set, that kid will be prosecuted for manslaughter and do jail time.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip , Boston[/QUOTE]
 
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