Ted Spencer
Veteran
2 - 8 gb p2, powerbook g4, 2 - 500 gig fw drives, g5 dual 2.7 ghz, fcs 6
New Poll - FS100 or P2?
- Thread starter MDKfilms
- Start date
Kwan
Well-known member
My Mac Book Pro with MXO Ver 2.1, FS-100 Ver 4.0, HVX, Breavise35mm or Letue EX (for wide angle, Cuz my Set is small) and BTLH1700. All connected together (at my green set).
Currently (Jan 2008), FS-100 is very helpful to me ('til 64GB or 128GB P2 available for under $800), Mostly, I shoot green screen (with chromaflex and Ring). With FS-100 I can shoot directly in QT format. I don't have to convert the native P2 format for NLEs like FCP (Save me time and storage). I can edit from the FS-100, use motion effect and preview with out rendering.
Currently (Jan 2008), FS-100 is very helpful to me ('til 64GB or 128GB P2 available for under $800), Mostly, I shoot green screen (with chromaflex and Ring). With FS-100 I can shoot directly in QT format. I don't have to convert the native P2 format for NLEs like FCP (Save me time and storage). I can edit from the FS-100, use motion effect and preview with out rendering.
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MDKfilms
Well-known member
Curious question. If the firestore can do everything the P2 card can do and more why have a P2 card? What I need is some justification as to why I, in my situation,would go with P2. I see that the poll is overwhelmingly balanced towards P2. People seem to be saying freedom, well you are not free if you are lugging around a laptop which has in it a hardrive, like the FS100. So far when I have shot with the FS100 it has been run and gun, no problem, I didn't feel constricted in anyway. I recorded on location for hours in the PN mode no problem and then at the end of the day I grabbed all the files dragged and dropped them on the clients laptop no fuss no muss. But if I was using P2 I would have needed a laptop with the appropriate software, plus the right connector ie
cmcia slot or express slot plus make sure the client knows what they are doing with that software. I hope people don't think I work for Focus, i'm just trying to figure out why anyone would use P2, given the small size and you need something like a laptop or the P2store?
EDIT: With the exception of the lack of instant preview out through the camera.
cmcia slot or express slot plus make sure the client knows what they are doing with that software. I hope people don't think I work for Focus, i'm just trying to figure out why anyone would use P2, given the small size and you need something like a laptop or the P2store?EDIT: With the exception of the lack of instant preview out through the camera.
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filmbot
Active member
I started working with the HVX and 1st fs-100 runs in 2005 and it worked like complete crap . The battery did not want to ever come off any of the units , syncing the thing was a pain always lost sync .
I will stick with p2 and see what alternatives come out for it in the future but will be staying away from the Firestores all together.
I will stick with p2 and see what alternatives come out for it in the future but will be staying away from the Firestores all together.
gunleik
Well-known member
You can preview the FS.
It's a bit more risky to take it in a race-car...
I have had it on a snow-scooter, though.
That is not a recommended use. The P2's would have been the right choice for that trip. I had/have no problems, though
I use both + the component out for diverse recording situations, though.
Gunleik
It's a bit more risky to take it in a race-car...
I have had it on a snow-scooter, though.
That is not a recommended use. The P2's would have been the right choice for that trip. I had/have no problems, though
I use both + the component out for diverse recording situations, though.
Gunleik
Barry_Green
Moderator
Simple answer: because the FireStore can't do many of the things a P2 card can.
This has been discussed extensively in the past; searching will reveal some great threads on the pros & cons of both.
I have mounted FS100 several times in race cars (my primary job) with never a hitch, However if your in the dirt ( closed coarse off-road) I wouldn't even consider an hvx. 99% of my stuff is oval and road coarse racing. I just mount my peripherals in a foam padded box and zip tie or bolt it down.
We are going to shoot a product demo (car) with a DVTEC rig..... just add a longer firewire and mount in car.
Nava
We are going to shoot a product demo (car) with a DVTEC rig..... just add a longer firewire and mount in car.
Nava
jcoxshooter
Well-known member
P2 for the security of not worrying about the losing footage from the fire wire cable being yanked out or with my luck knocking the hard off the camera. Plus IMO the small connection of the firewire is just to easily broken. I wouldn't want to use it day in and day out.
We have been on p2 cards for over 2 years and the whole time using a power mac laptop to down load in the field. Then post in fcp and have only had only one problem and it was a fcp problem. Check that i had a new guy handling the down loading of the cards and he did not confirm a download before deleting it and we had to re-shoot because he hadn't copied the card. But thats was human error not equipment. We have a better process know and a different camera assistant.
We have been on p2 cards for over 2 years and the whole time using a power mac laptop to down load in the field. Then post in fcp and have only had only one problem and it was a fcp problem. Check that i had a new guy handling the down loading of the cards and he did not confirm a download before deleting it and we had to re-shoot because he hadn't copied the card. But thats was human error not equipment. We have a better process know and a different camera assistant.
bbalser
Veteran
I've been using it day in and day out since it first hit the market, never had any of the imagined problems folks keep sighting. If it was so problematic, I'd never have produced the user guide DVD for Firestores, nor the Firestore discussion board.
Barry_Green
Moderator
No, it can't. We've been through this before.
Look, you can say it does what you want, fine. But to say it does everything the card does? That's just wrong information. The cards do lots and lots of things that the FS-100 can't do.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
EVEN IF the FS100 allowed you all the flexibility and option of P2 cards (which it doesn't), I don't see why it would ever be preferable.
The FS100 requires a tenuous connection via a small 4 pin firewire connector as well a seperate battery.
Nevermind the fact that it adds yet another piece of gear that needs to be mounted somehow to your camera...which is not insignificant in its weight.
The only true advantage the FS100 offers is recording time and a lower price per gig.
And the gap in those advantages is becomming smaller each year as P2 cards become larger and cheaper.
Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who shoots almost exclusively on the FS100.
At the time I got my HVX, it was all I could afford, and the types of shoots I was doing required long record times.
Don't get me wrong - the FS100 gets the job done, it's a great piece of equipment and I haven't had any problems with it.
It has served me very well over the past year and my footage is just as good as it would have been had I shot on P2.
That said - I shoot with my single 8GB P2 card whenever I can, and I look forward to the day that I can put the FS100 away and shoot exclusively on P2.
There's just no way around the fact that the camera was designed for P2 media.
It's a much more seamless and elegant way to work.
In my opinion anyhow.
(as far as the Poll is concerned - yes, you should have included an option for 'BOTH')
The FS100 requires a tenuous connection via a small 4 pin firewire connector as well a seperate battery.
Nevermind the fact that it adds yet another piece of gear that needs to be mounted somehow to your camera...which is not insignificant in its weight.
The only true advantage the FS100 offers is recording time and a lower price per gig.
And the gap in those advantages is becomming smaller each year as P2 cards become larger and cheaper.
Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who shoots almost exclusively on the FS100.
At the time I got my HVX, it was all I could afford, and the types of shoots I was doing required long record times.
Don't get me wrong - the FS100 gets the job done, it's a great piece of equipment and I haven't had any problems with it.
It has served me very well over the past year and my footage is just as good as it would have been had I shot on P2.
That said - I shoot with my single 8GB P2 card whenever I can, and I look forward to the day that I can put the FS100 away and shoot exclusively on P2.
There's just no way around the fact that the camera was designed for P2 media.
It's a much more seamless and elegant way to work.
In my opinion anyhow.
(as far as the Poll is concerned - yes, you should have included an option for 'BOTH')
wgzn
Veteran
this poll is fatally flawed - its absolutely NOT a matter of one OR the other. its a matter of what youre shooting.
at the moment, there are situations where firestore (or shooting direct to a drive) is the ONLY way to go if you want to capture dvcproHD in elongated continuous takes. i do occasional LONG live music shoots and the firestore is the only realistic option in that case.
but still. P2 is easier and more foolproof as far as industry chatter says (though i have both and NEITHER has ever let me down - im on mac as well)
to vote for one over the other would be misinforming. this is like asking "whats better channellocks or crescent wrench?" depends on what youre doing...
at the moment, there are situations where firestore (or shooting direct to a drive) is the ONLY way to go if you want to capture dvcproHD in elongated continuous takes. i do occasional LONG live music shoots and the firestore is the only realistic option in that case.
but still. P2 is easier and more foolproof as far as industry chatter says (though i have both and NEITHER has ever let me down - im on mac as well)
to vote for one over the other would be misinforming. this is like asking "whats better channellocks or crescent wrench?" depends on what youre doing...
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jcoxshooter
Well-known member
I disagree that its the ONLY way to go. We have shot a handfull of events that ran 2-3 hours and did with only 4-4gb card. With the ablity to hot swap the cards, we just hand off shot card to a person to download, they verifed the footage and empty the card. At the end of the shoot we had all the footage loaded and in a timeline for the client to watch.
ullanta
Veteran
Yes, the poll is problematic - I shoot primarily using a laptop, and occasionally with P2, depending on circumstances.
jcoxshooter - for events that require continuous long shots of more than an hour (like, say, opera), that hot-swapping is not really an option (even the slight jiggling of the camera during the swap is a problem); and, given that such recordings are often 1-man jobs, the idea of handing off cards to someone else is problematic.
A good job shooting long theatrical/opera/music events with 1 camera is a pretty difficult and intensive process. You're talking about shots that last over an hour, with no retakes, and often a LOT of complex motion and heavy constraints - you CAN'T miss a moment of someone's solo; you have to get all the entrances and exots, you have to get close enough to have nice facial/gesture detail, yet capture the gestalt of each set, scene, and lighting change. Nothing is tailored for the camera; the lattitude of the theatrical lighting is huge, directors like to stage things very wide, you must work in the dark and in silence... I may be biased, but it's one of the hardest things in world of camera operation, expecially, again, considering it's usually done alone. There's no WAY you can throw in data-management chores!
jcoxshooter - for events that require continuous long shots of more than an hour (like, say, opera), that hot-swapping is not really an option (even the slight jiggling of the camera during the swap is a problem); and, given that such recordings are often 1-man jobs, the idea of handing off cards to someone else is problematic.
A good job shooting long theatrical/opera/music events with 1 camera is a pretty difficult and intensive process. You're talking about shots that last over an hour, with no retakes, and often a LOT of complex motion and heavy constraints - you CAN'T miss a moment of someone's solo; you have to get all the entrances and exots, you have to get close enough to have nice facial/gesture detail, yet capture the gestalt of each set, scene, and lighting change. Nothing is tailored for the camera; the lattitude of the theatrical lighting is huge, directors like to stage things very wide, you must work in the dark and in silence... I may be biased, but it's one of the hardest things in world of camera operation, expecially, again, considering it's usually done alone. There's no WAY you can throw in data-management chores!
MDKfilms
Well-known member
If I had made the poll with the "BOTH" option where is the fun in that. This way it challenges people to argue and discuss the choice. If you can afford both, good for you. If I won a million dollars tomorrow I would have both and then some, but for some both is not an option. I am a very utilitarian person, I want the most options possible and for me that is the FS100. If you want to tell me I'm wrong, prove it, don't give me some kneejerk reaction about how P2 is going to save the video world or how it is freeing you from using one device but still needing to have another which does the same purpose ie; P2 store or a laptop. If you are a one man show, like I am doing not only camera but sound, lighting and data management, doing run and gun at 11am and by 1pm you are shooting on location, no lunch, because you are driving and loading and setting up gear. What no has answered is why choose P2, what are the hundreds of options P2 gives me over the FS100? Please list them because I really want to know, I have gone over Barry' DVDs but there is not a lot on there. I have done a search here but I haven't found a decent comparison list of the two units. Please, if anyone has a link to a thread let me have it.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
...or simply not answer the poll
The poll doesn't ask, "which do you think is better" or "which is the best recording device"
It asks "what media do you use"
The answer to that question, for many people, is both.
I guess my question would be - why do you feel the need to choose or the other?
They are by no means mutually exclusive.
EDITED TO ADD:
I know Barry outlined the differences in detail in a thread at one point - I'll see if I can dig that up.