how to power your lightis outside?

M

meauounji

Well-known member
So I have a music video shoot coming up, and we're going to be out side at night. At an empty parking lot and city streets. Neither has a whole lot of available light. My question is: how do you power your lights when you're outside on location outside of battery powered lights? Do most people just use home-depot generators or something?

Yes, I am totally new at this whole lighting thing.
 
You could always power the lights using inverters off of the cars that are on the set. Just make sure the inverter can handle the maximum wattage the light requires. The beefier inverters actually connect to the car battery as opposed to the cigarette lighter.
 
Depends on the kind of lights and the type of inverter. If you're trying to power a tungsten light, yes that'll work fine, but any tungsten light of any wattage will suck a car battery dry in very short order.

Fluorescent lights off a car battery can be done, but not with a cheap inverter. You'd need a high-quality sine-wave power source or you might end up with a nasty buzzing from the fluorescent.

If you need a little power for some small lights, car batteries (and headlights) are the no-budget way to go. But you're not gonna run a 1K fresnel off a car battery for very long! If you need continuous power for a while for a bunch of lights, then you're going to need a generator. If you're recording sound, a generator can be very problematic, but if you're not recording sound (and many/most music videos don't need to record sound during the actual singing part) then a home-depot generator might work okay for tungsten lights.
 
Just rent a generator or two and be done with it. You can't do a decent job in the dark by powering a few small lights from car power. I'd guess you'll need to light the space as well as the people.

But also have a dimmable on-camera light for face fill as needed.

One of my favorite lights is a Frezzi Mini-Arc HMI that pumps out a lot of light for 30 min. powered by a single NP-1 battery. It's not dimmable unfortunately but it can go places that cabled lights can't. I use it on a stand or clamped to something, but seldom on my camera.
 
I'll adress the same question, but I'm using 2x LED600 and 1x LED256 from Cool Lights, I'm trying to power each of them with a battery pack or something like that.

Which battery pack (XLR) would your recommend and how much time it would last.

Thanks!
 
It's true big lights will drain your car battery with inverter--unless you keep the car running. Since you're shooting a music video, noise isn't an issue. Same goes with a genny, but a car is like a genny on wheels!
 
Barry_Green said:
Fluorescent lights off a car battery can be done, but not with a cheap inverter. You'd need a high-quality sine-wave power source or you might end up with a nasty buzzing from the fluorescent.
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Chris Santucci said:
http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/182/p/1/pt/29/product.asp.
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Barry is right. You have to be really careful when choosing a DC-to-AC inverter for film production because there are three basic types of inverters and not all of them are suitable for production applications. For instance, according to Xantrax’s website the XPowerpack 600HD that Chris suggests is a “Modified Sine Wave” inverter and therefore not good for HD cinema productions. “Modified Sine Wave”, “Psuedo Sine Wave”, and “Cycloconverter” are all sales terms used for a modified square wave type of AC power generated by inverters with limited switching capacity. Modified square wave (MSW) inverters are low in cost and will satisfactorily operate almost all common household appliances and power tools. For this reason, MSW inverters are the most prevalent and the ones typically used in the economy RV/Residential Standby and Industrial lines of inverter generators. Unfortunately, they are not suitable for use in motion picture production except for the powering of quartz lights. A modified square wave will cause sensitive electronic equipment (computers, hard drives, video cameras) to overheat, and will cause electronic HMI and Fluorescent light ballasts to kick harmonic noise back into the power stream. Furthermore, electrical components that depend on the peak value of the voltage waveform to operate effectively (the diode-capacitor power supplies in computers, hard drives, and electronic HMI ballasts, as well as the bridge rectifiers of battery chargers) will not operate effectively on a modified square wave. For a more detailed explanation of what makes an inverter suitable for motion picture production, see the following thread: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=137712.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip , Boston
 
BVX said:
Just rent a generator or two and be done with it. You can't do a decent job in the dark by powering a few small lights from car power. I'd guess you'll need to light the space as well as the people.
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Barry_Green said:
If you need a little power for some small lights, car batteries (and headlights) are the no-budget way to go. But you're not gonna run a 1K fresnel off a car battery for very long! If you need continuous power for a while for a bunch of lights, then you're going to need a generator.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with Barry and BVX, you won’t be able to light the people and the environment with a few LED panels operating on batteries. In my opinion LED panels are only good for special applications and not sufficient for general lighting (see http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=200763&page=3.) For something of this scale you are going to need a larger package and a generator to power it. I don’t however agree with Barry’s comment below.

Barry_Green said:
If you're recording sound, a generator can be very problematic…..
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In my experience it comes down to what generator you use and how you use it. If you use a Honda EU6500is inverter generator, it is possible to record location audio without picking up generator noise - especially if you use them with a transformer/distro. The Honda EU6500is inverter generator to begin with is much quieter than the other portable generators and even Honda’s older movie blimped Honda EX5500. Part of what makes the new Honda EU6500is so quiet is it's "Eco-Throttle." The Eco-Throttle's microprocessor automatically adjusts the generator's engine speed to produce only the power needed for the applied load. It can do this because the inverter technology of the Honda EU6500is enables it to run at different RPMs and maintain a constant frequency and voltage. Where conventional generators like the Honda EX5500 and ES6500 have to run full speed at a constant 3600 RPM to produce stable 60 hertz (cycle) electricity, a Honda EU6500is only needs to run as fast as required to meet the load demand. Since their engines do not have to run at full speed, and given the fact that an inverter generator generates 20% more power per revolution of the engine, makes the Honda EU series of inverter generators substantially quieter than conventional models.

The net result is that the EU6500is operates between 34 to 44 dBA at 50 ft. - half as loud (ten decibels) as the comparable EM7000is and ES6500 generators and comparable to our Crawford 1400A. But you can't park a Crawford right on set and record sound without picking up the generator either. With sound specs this good all you need to record sound without picking up generator noise is a real distro system that will allow you to move the EU6500is off set (like you would a Crawford), minimize line loss over a long cable run, and provide plug-in pockets conveniently close to set. That is where the transformer comes in.

HD_PP_Demo_Transformer-Distro.jpg

A Distro System consisting of a 60A Full Power Transformer/Distro, 2-60A GPC (Bates) Splitters, 2-60A Woodhead Box distributes power from a modified Honda EU6500is. Even though the generator is 100' away to reduce noise, plug-in points remain conveniently close to set.​

To record sync sound without picking up any generator noise, all you need to do is add 200' of heavy duty 250V twist-lock extension cable between the generator and a transformer/distro. This is usually enough cable to place the generator around the corner of a building, or to run it out of a van or truck - which is usually all the additional blimping you need with these generators. The heavy-duty 250V twist-lock cable eliminates multiple long cable runs to the generator and minimizes line-loss; as well as, eliminates the voltage drop you would have using standard electrical cords.


HD_PP_Demo_Distro.jpg

60A GPC (Bates) Splitters and Woodhead Box.​

To assure full line level (120V) on set, use a transformer/distro designed to compensate for line loss you will have over an extended cable run. That is, use one designed to slightly boost the voltage on the load side (secondary). With these "boost transformers," if you were to feed the supply side (primary) of the transformer 240 volts from the generator, 127 volts would come out on the secondary side where you plug in the lights. This slight boost enables you to place the generator further from set where you won't hear it, yet assure that the supply voltage on set does not drop too low. Make sure the transformer/distro is equipped with a 60A Bates and three 20 A Edison circuits so that you have plug-in pockets conveniently on set.

HD_PP_Demo_P2L.jpg

60A Woodhead Box running Power-to-Light PFC 800W ballast (left) and PFC 1200W ballast (right.)​

For more details on the use of transformers for set power, I suggest you read the article I wrote for our company newsletter on the use of portable generators in motion picture production. Use this link -
www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html for more information about using inverter generators with transformers for motion picture lighting.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip , Boston
 
Sigh....


I had a feeling this wasn't going to be simple. Please allow me to elaborate on my "user requirements"

1. Low-to-no budget. We're talking less than $1000 to go around for the whole production. Thankfully, the client understands his own situation and is willing to contribute and help gather low-to-no cost resources.
2. We're willing to go for "ghetto/McGuyver rig" It doesn't have to be professional looking or professional at all as long as it works.

Thanks for the comments so far, though. It doesn't seem like there's been a whole lot written on the topic out there.
 
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There is no such thing as "no budget" and "exterior night". Those things simply don't belong together.

What's the background? Do you think you could get away with a day-for-night shot?
 
Barry_Green said:
There is no such thing as "no budget" and "exterior night". Those things simply don't belong together.
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Understood. (though you did suggest car headlights as a no-budget exterior lighting earlier :p) As I said, we're dealing with a bit less than $1000, so it's not a completely no-budget project.

Background is going to be city scapes. One of the places we're aiming for is a rooftop parking lot.

I was hoping to find a way to power some work lights and stick diffusers in front of them
 
meauounji said:
Understood. (though you did suggest car headlights as a no-budget exterior lighting earlier :p) As I said, we're dealing with a bit less than $1000, so it's not a completely no-budget project.

Background is going to be city scapes. One of the places we're aiming for is a rooftop parking lot.

I was hoping to find a way to power some work lights and stick diffusers in front of them
Click to expand...


Sounds like you really should rent a generator. I have rented and used generators from my local "Rent-All" place. It cost me about $70 for a weekend. If you are doing a music video, you are probably inserting the music track later and not using location sound? If so your in business.

I needed lights and a fog machine for a scene shot in a creepy forest a few years back. We lugged a generator close to a mile into the forest to get the shots. Worked great and couldn't have done without it.
 
nejuicer said:
Barry is right. You have to be really careful when choosing a DC-to-AC inverter for film production because there are three basic types of inverters and not all of them are suitable for production applications. For instance, according to Xantrax’s website the XPowerpack 600HD that Chris suggests is a “Modified Sine Wave” inverter and therefore not good for HD cinema productions. “Modified Sine Wave”, “Psuedo Sine Wave”, and “Cycloconverter”...
Click to expand...


OK, the OP (I seem to recall) mentioned the Coollights LED600 which as far as I can tell is a 12 volt DC capable fixture drawing very little current.

The Xantrex 600HD unit provides 12 volt DC power. So... there.

If more power is actually needed, you can rent a small towable power plant that provides true sine wave power from United Rentals or any similar industrial rental company and tow it with a cheapo U-Haul truck with a towing hitch.

.
 
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Chris, thanks for the hint on the Xantrex.

What do you think of Bescor power belts or equivalents?
 
Thanks ya'll. I'll be looking into renting a generator for the project... maybe. Went and checked out some additional locations and we might be able to get away with battery powered lights if we go where there's plenty of street lights instead.
 
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