How To Get Started and Stay In The Business

[IronWilson]

I didn't like the post. sorry. but this is kind of a misleading advice. specially if you want to make films for the passion of it and not as a business. and 20 calls everyday for 3 months - unnecessary waste of time, instead of running after people, make good films with your heart and people will come to you.
my opinion. no offense.

This post was intended for people who want to make videos for businesses, not feature films.

I had the same mentality when I first started though. I thought, as long as I have a good demo reel and produce great work, all I have to do is show a potential client a video I made and they will pay me to produce a video for them.

After a few years, I realized this is not the case. Primarily, if business owners do not think that they NEED video production, they definitely will not give you any work. There is a big difference between showing someone your work and having them appreciate it and be very impressed with your talent, and showing someone your work and then asking them to pay you to do it for them. When money comes into play, the rules change. And no matter how passionate you are, eventually the issue of money will come about.

I have learned that you spend more time dealing with market research, profit/losses, and other business related BS then you ever do actually shooting and/or editing if you are trying to run a video production business. Also, companies would rather hire someone that they know rather than someone with spectacular work who they have never met. So being known is a big deal.

In essence, you may have a lot of fans of your videos and people that think you are a total god of video. Once you asked to be paid for it, it is a truly different story.

 

[mihas]

This post was intended for people who want to make videos for businesses, not feature films.

I had the same mentality when I first started though. I thought, as long as I have a good demo reel and produce great work, all I have to do is show a potential client a video I made and they will pay me to produce a video for them.

After a few years, I realized this is not the case. Primarily, if business owners do not think that they NEED video production, they definitely will not give you any work. There is a big difference between showing someone your work and having them appreciate it and be very impressed with your talent, and showing someone your work and then asking them to pay you to do it for them. When money comes into play, the rules change. And no matter how passionate you are, eventually the issue of money will come about.

I have learned that you spend more time dealing with market research, profit/losses, and other business related BS then you ever do actually shooting and/or editing if you are trying to run a video production business. Also, companies would rather hire someone that they know rather than someone with spectacular work who they have never met. So being known is a big deal.

In essence, you may have a lot of fans of your videos and people that think you are a total god of video. Once you asked to be paid for it, it is a truly different story.

I see what you saying. And many people who are into video making as a business might agree with you. But I really rather make my money elsewhere and invest some of it in my films just for the passion of film making. I really love being in the moment of creating the film and don't really care about making money off my videos. Because once you start making videos for money, they become less creative because you are doing what your client wants and personally I would not be able to make something that someone else told me to.
But again. the post was for people who want to make videos for clients and money...

 

[dougspice]

Because once you start making videos for money, they become less creative because you are doing what your client wants and personally I would not be able to make something that someone else told me to.

Unless you intend to make 100% truly independent films for your entire life (and some people do), then this will always be true even as a "pure" filmmaker. You might luck out and have great producers who believe in you 100%, but that'd be a rare case... and even then you might turn out to be an M. Night.

 

[robstar1]

Hi Mihas!

It's perfectly okay if you want to be an artist or hobbyist and not make money from your films; like writing poetry for your own personal pleasure and gratification instead of publishing a book on poetry. If you have some work either finished or trailers you'd like to share with us we're always supportive... please share with us.

This forum subtopic is Business / Post Production and the title of this thread is "How To Get In The Business and Stay In The Business". This isn't just about videos / industrials or commercials; the feature film business is just as much a business as anything else if not more so these days. I worked on the Warner Bros lot doing Steadicam all last week and there's enough suits, paperwork and Excel spreadsheets there to choke all the horses in Montana!

A few of the regular contributors here may still have "day jobs" or working spouses that allow them to pursue their vision of their creativity and art; they're just trying to build their business to self sustain their lifestyles, families and "camera addictions"! :laugh:

Thanks for joining us!

Robert

 

[mihas]

Hi Mihas!

It's perfectly okay if you want to be an artist or hobbyist and not make money from your films; like writing poetry for your own personal pleasure and gratification instead of publishing a book on poetry. If you have some work either finished or trailers you'd like to share with us we're always supportive... please share with us.

This forum subtopic is Business / Post Production and the title of this thread is "How To Get In The Business and Stay In The Business". This isn't just about videos / industrials or commercials; the feature film business is just as much a business as anything else if not more so these days. I worked on the Warner Bros lot doing Steadicam all last week and there's enough suits, paperwork and Excel spreadsheets there to choke all the horses in Montana!

A few of the regular contributors here may still have "day jobs" or working spouses that allow them to pursue their vision of their creativity and art; they're just trying to build their business to self sustain their lifestyles, families and "camera addictions"! :laugh:

Thanks for joining us!

Robert

thanks for the response. will try to post some of my work later this week.

 

[chromeboy007]

Something unbelievable just happened... I cold (sorry Rob, warm) called or emailed, I don't even remember, this law firm back in March - nothing! I got a call from their office today (11 months later) asking me to do a quick shoot for them for a medical procedure! Unreal!

 

[Sherman]

Hmmm, lawyers practicing medicine.
This isn't a frontal lobotomy by any chance.
Or just the usual cashectomy?
Make sure you have lots of Rohipnal.
And get your money up front! LOL.
Good luck Chrome

 

[Deniz Coker]

This is an amazing thread! Thank you all so so much for all this information! You know I've been dealing with the crazy NYC market lately and one thing I think has been happening is people keep going for the lowest bidder. I have no shame in bidding a fair rate. But I just know they went with someone who charged 250 for pre/production/post to a dvd in their hand. Now I know, those aren't the people you want to do business with anyway, but it gets a little old. I've been considering heading to some local business networking events, not sure how the community of those is in NYC. I fear people may be attending them out of desperacy not for "expanding opportunities" so part of me fears I'll come across more people who expect me to shoot them Avatar for $100 bucks. Has anyone had experience in the NYC market? I should add, a lot of the stuff I've found has been through agencies and people I know, all word of mouth. But I need to take this into my own hands and grab my own clients, I can't let my income and future depend on someone referring me.

 

[robstar1]

Something unbelievable just happened... I cold (sorry Rob, warm) called or emailed, I don't even remember, this law firm back in March - nothing! I got a call from their office today (11 months later) asking me to do a quick shoot for them for a medical procedure! Unreal!

Super congratulations! You planted a seed and it sprouted! That is so awesome, I'll offer you a thirty minute one-on-one private phone consult if you want but then again it sounds like you're well on your way. Let me know and we'll schedule a time!

Robert

 

[chromeboy007]

Thanks Rob - never knew you offered that. PM me your pricing and I'll keep it on file.

For everyone - I'm spotting a dangerous trend with some of my best prospects. So after meeting with me and discussing some ideas of what they might want in their videos, I usually ask them to go home and develop some basic concepts for the content. After all I do not know their business as well as they do, so I always thought that it's best to ask them to give me a few broad general talking points for content before I formulate how to get that content across (ie a script or interview style talking head, etc). This seems to be a huge bottleneck. They drag and drag on forever with coming up with just a few pointers.

Is my approach wrong? Like should I do EVERYTHING for them from the get go?

If my approach is correct, how do I motivate them to get something done fast?

 

[Deniz Coker]

From what I've personally seen, something like that for a non production person could cause their brains to implode. I've always tried to feel out what it is they're after and where it's going (distribution channel). Then I usually give them a few options and see what they're leaning towards and feel that out again. It does take a lot of hand holding sometimes.

 

[robstar1]

...So after meeting with me and discussing some ideas of what they might want in their videos, I usually ask them to go home and develop some basic concepts for the content. After all I do not know their business as well as they do, so I always thought that it's best to ask them to give me a few broad general talking points for content before I formulate how to get that content across (ie a script or interview style talking head, etc). This seems to be a huge bottleneck. They drag and drag on forever with coming up with just a few pointers...

Thanks, I used to teach a traveling seminar series called the Demystified Series that included Business Practices Demystified, Sales & Marketing Demystified and Copyright & Licensing Demystified but I don't really do that anymore or advertise for it; nor am I pitching for it here. I do offer private one-on-one and small group Steadicam workshops with an optional full day at the end where I work with the individual(s) to set up a complete business and marketing plan. But, again that's not what this thread is about; I am simply offering a phone consult as a reward for your persistence and success.

Now, on to your "trend" ! You're very much on-track asking for talking points from prospective clients; after all, how can you tell their story if you don't know it? I use two simple pages; one called "The Twenty Most Important Questions" and the second is a "Project Profile". Where you're making a mis-step here is giving them homework and expecting them to do it. We're all too busy to do crap like that. What you do is tell them you need to get some basic information about their company and their project and YOU do an interview and fill-in the answers right there on the spot. Strike while the iron is hot! You may go question by question or you may skip around. What will happen though is that you give THEM time to talk while you LISTEN and write. All this will spur additional conversation and hopefully they'll see you as organized and interested.

So yes, they are hiring you and you should make it so easy for them that it is not a struggle for them to now have a vendor giving them work to do. If they don't have the time, ask them who there can you work with to get the info you need. If after that they're still unable to get you the basics, they're no longer a qualified prospect worthy of much of your time. Don't write them off, but don't try to push a rope either.

I hope this was helpful for you!

Robert

 

[chromeboy007]

Yeah thanks Rob - I googled "The Twenty Most Important Questions" and this seems right:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/06/17/mo...-entrepreneurs-management-small-business.html

Thanks. You know this is really something that I should've done, even informally, during the meeting.

EDIT: Wait I think most of these questions are not very relevant when it comes to marketing videos. They are good questions for business / management consultants to ask. What is 'Project Profile"?

 

[robstar1]

The "Twenty Most Important Questions" I was referring to are what I created, a few are similar or common to what you read on Forbes but the Forbes list is a bunch of corporate CEO / MBA bull-poop that is full of corporate speak. At some point you'll have to learn that language when you do big corp jobs but for now fahgetaboutit!

My Project Profilers are something I created as well.

BTW, my Twenty Questions are something you should answer for your own business first!

I'll have to think about if and how to share them. I'm not sure this is the right venue.

Robert

 

[chromeboy007]

haha ok tanks Robert... good to know the Forbes list wasn't what you were referring to. I have a good feel what you are talking about and I'll come up with my own questionnaire.... wait... I already have!

 

[basspig]

I have a Google AdWords campaign running again since Feb 1 (got a $100 offer from Google to restart my ads), have been publishing a newsletter and mailing them to clients and, for the clients who are unresponsive, I sent out a "We haven't heard from you in a while" postcard with a request to call me and let me know what I could be doing to better serve them.

I had a nice hospital account that popped up out of nowhere--the local hospitals were merging and they needed a videographer to cover the event celebration/speeches/interviews and I got two job assignments in Oct-Nov. The jobs paid well and one of them was just shoot and hand over footage.. $850 for 2 hours' work. But then VendorMate happened. They required me to sign up with a vendor clearing service. After that fiasco, the hospital stopped sending me work. After repeated requests, they kept telling me 'we'll let you know when we have a project for you', whereas before the VendorMate thing happened, they were telling me they have lots of projects and the trend is upward. Something must have turned up in that Vendormate background check.. the only thing I can think of is the $86K in back taxes on my house nicked my credit history. At any rate, the hospital has ignored my phonecalls and e-mails since January and a big job they asked me to reserve an opening for on the 27th has not materialized.

In the meantime, I work the phones daily, but I've had some threats about violating 'no call' lists and otherwise just irritated call screeners who seem to have fielded too many telemarketing calls that day.

I'm thinking more seriously once again about renting my gear out, as it just sits here week after week doing nothing. Renting a camera is scary though, because there are subtle things that can go wrong due to mishandling that go undetected until you shoot footage and look at it on a large screen, things that would pass muster in a quick checkout on the LCD. But $250-350/day income from each of my cameras would at least pay some bills. I've never been in the rental business, so I wouldn't know how to recognize a fake insurance policy if a party wanted to rent my cameras and claimed to have insurance coverage. Things like that have stopped me from renting in the past.

In the meantime, I'm running tests with AdWords, adjusting display hours and comparing CTRs, as well as working on the next newsletter. I've mailed out DVDs to area businesses, along with followup letters, but not one of them has phoned or responded in any way. It's like they just toss the stuff in the trash without even opening the envelopes.

 

[robstar1]

Thanks for sharing.

Never give up!

If you're getting treated like a telemarketer, it's likely you sound like one. Record yourself and listen to your words and tone. Go back and re-read the pseudo scripts in the beginning of the thread.

Are the prospects on your mailing list truly qualified prospects? Even so, 99% may be tossing them in the trash on any given mailing but it creates name recognition. How much advertising mail that you get do you archive? 1.5% return is great for direct mail if you can manage to get that. You're planting seeds to grow like a farmer, not making instant microwave popcorn. Just because the phone doesn't ring the day of the mailing, doesn't mean you didn't get a in "imprint" of your name. It takes many many imprints to build a name / brand for yourself. It could simply be they just don't have immediate work for you. You need to stay in-touch for that day they do have a job or that day they're ready to try a new production vendor.

Mark, I've hinted at this before but you really need to read some books on positive thinking. I'm not picking on you sir, but just reading your posts can be a buzz kill. You're among friends and colleagues here and this is the place to share your frustrations but I hope this sort of "vibe" isn't coming across in your contact with clients.

As for the $86k in back taxes, I suggest you go online and find the Dave Ramsey show or read some of Suzie Orman's books and make that a priority to clean up one way or the other. That is a huge mental weight to carry on your shoulders whether it directly or indirectly affects your vendor status.

Good luck!

Robert

 

[chromeboy007]

Got my first wedding gig booked for September... finally! It's a friend of a friend of mine. Been working on getting my first one for a while now. My friends don't generally get married so it was hard to get some experience and portfolio footage.

 

[pulpwoody]

First, thanks to RobStar for sharing his wisdom. I think it's great that there's still an active thread on business, and getting new business on a site devoted to everything video production.

Rob's advice has been:
1. Spot freakin on!
2. Essential
3. Tough to internalize.

Here's my two cents, take with a pound of salt.
Since I first posted here almost three years ago, we've grown the business from just me in my living room, to three principals, an office with a studio, and an expanding list of clients, and Rob's advice is what jump started the entire process. His advice, if followed, WILL get you success, but you have to realize that as a business owner, you now have many different roles, and one of those is sales/marketing monkey. One of the last things you want to deal with is making calls, schmoozing, networking, but it is absolutely essential to the survival of your company, and yourself. You have to suck it up and step outside your comfort zone, or get a job, one of the two.

Read some books about business first, and then worry about what camera/computer/lights/monitor etc., you are using. Chances are, most of those are just a distraction from the real work of generating business. I do the same thing almost every single week: should we upgrade the camera, what gear should we buy, when really, if you have the basics, extra money should be spent on sales training, marketing help, promotion, advertising, things that will help you make money. Let the client pay for the rentals, if you have extra money, get new business cards, join a local chamber of commerce, join some video/web/media meet up groups, start your own facebook/linkdin/youtube/vimeo page for increased seo.

I highly recommend reading "The E Myth Revisited." It sheds light on why many small businesses, such as mine and yours and everyone else's here fails. Read "Think and Grow Rich."

One of the best things we've done in the last year is ask ourselves, "who is our ideal client?" See, we were tired of being nickle and dimed by little one day jobs or people who were unwilling or unable to pay for our services. People who though that, since I had a camera, we could just "pop on down and shoot something real quick." That doesn't work, and it was our fault for letting people think they could ask us that in the first place. You don't ask a dentist to just "pop on over to the house on Saturday and look at my teeth real quick." Doesn't work that way for him, why should it by that way for you? We decided that our ideal client should be a company that makes over x dollars a year, and has x dollars for marketing a year, and there are local resources you can use to find out this info. Talk to your local chamber of commerce and they'll point you in the right direction.

This may all sound tedious and less fun than setting up three light dolly shot with a 200mm prime lens, but this is WAY more important, and it becomes easier the more you do it. Remember, motivation follows action, not the other way around.

Ask yourself who your ideal client is. If you don't know, think about it, figure it out, and write it down.

Always, remember to charge what you're worth, because you will anyway.

 

[basspig]

Thanks for sharing.

Never give up!

If you're getting treated like a telemarketer, it's likely you sound like one. Record yourself and listen to your words and tone. Go back and re-read the pseudo scripts in the beginning of the thread.

Are the prospects on your mailing list truly qualified prospects? Even so, 99% may be tossing them in the trash on any given mailing but it creates name recognition. How much advertising mail that you get do you archive? 1.5% return is great for direct mail if you can manage to get that. You're planting seeds to grow like a farmer, not making instant microwave popcorn. Just because the phone doesn't ring the day of the mailing, doesn't mean you didn't get a in "imprint" of your name. It takes many many imprints to build a name / brand for yourself. It could simply be they just don't have immediate work for you. You need to stay in-touch for that day they do have a job or that day they're ready to try a new production vendor.

Mark, I've hinted at this before but you really need to read some books on positive thinking. I'm not picking on you sir, but just reading your posts can be a buzz kill. You're among friends and colleagues here and this is the place to share your frustrations but I hope this sort of "vibe" isn't coming across in your contact with clients.

As for the $86k in back taxes, I suggest you go online and find the Dave Ramsey show or read some of Suzie Orman's books and make that a priority to clean up one way or the other. That is a huge mental weight to carry on your shoulders whether it directly or indirectly affects your vendor status.

Good luck!

Robert

Oh, I'm not giving up as long as I awaken each day and continue to draw breath.

One of the challenges I face is that there are very few businesses that use video services. The other is that those that do, get it done dirt cheap (I mean $100-200/shoot). Some of the real estate agencies do tour videos, but they use their own camcorders and do the tours and throw them online. They won't pay a few hundred for a professionally shot tour.

I'm calling many of the same places again, because I've run out of businesses within reasonable driving distance. Some of them are irritated that I've called them at least once in the past month.

What's a truly qualified prospect? My core mailing list consists of persons or businesses that have either contacted me in the past about a possible project, or have actually been clients at one time. For instance, a law firm that hired me in a last minute rush to cover a panel discussion in 2009. They've been on my mailing list and receive my glossy periodical newsletter. I also sent them one of my 'We haven't heard from you in a while' postcards. I've sent quite a few of these out to past clients. Several are out of state, and I suppose that has something to do with it. I sometimes travel to another state to do a job, if asked.

Not sure what's going on with that hospital account. They've stopped returning e-mails and phone calls since the beginning of January. The last time they hired me was in November. So suddenly we've gone from being told that video projects were on the upswing (with the merger and a growth in marketing needs) to 'we'll call you if we have anything,' to not returning calls and ignoring postal mail as well as e-mails. The only thing that happened in between was that VendorMate background check. After that, all business with the hospital stopped abruptly.

Dave Ramsey can't help me. I don't have any credit card debt or leisure habits that cost money. I live on about $3K/year for most expenses (though electricity has skyrocketed and I no longer include it in my cost of living). The only expense that outstrips my income is property taxes, so I can't pay them. That's not a spending problem, it's an income problem. And with a 65% increase in valuation during this year's reval, the problem will rapidly get worse. Yes, it's a huge weight, but other than that, the house has no mortgage--I've been here for 45 years in this house and did the construction myself, buying materials from weekly paychecks. Every time I hear a car door slam, my heart palpitates, thinking it's the sheriff with the eviction notice.

Right now, all my eggs are in one basket. The one good thing that has happened is that a regional symphony orchestra has a new director and he is pro-recording and he has the smarts to grasp the value of my work based on recordings he's viewed of my past concerts. I'm starting to see some work there, and possibly a five week summer gig recording 25 concerts for archival purposes.

I'm desparately trying to get more corporate work, but the ad agencies won't talk to me without a portfolio, and large corporations are mostly commited in contracts for services with other longtime established video companies. I suspect too that there is a stigma attached to 'sole proprietor'. I think when that came out with the VendorMate matter, that may have soured them. VendorMate's registration was clearly geared for large corporate entities, asking for Standard & Poors and Dunn & Bradstreet numbers, none of which I have. I could not sign up the first time because I don't have a corporate tax ID. I ended up 'cheating' the form by using my SSN. It was either that or the hospital would find someone else to do their video work. Then they told me every job has to go out to bid. But in 3 months since then, I have not been asked to bid on even one project. So either the lady that ran their marketing died in a planecrash or got fired... or they figured out that I'm not a 'player' (as in big corporate entity). I'm trying to bootstrap business and develop a base of clientelle and income before I go forming an LLC and lose the tax benefits of sole proprietorship. I'm an individual who 'works for hire', which keeps the bookkeeping simple enough for this non-MBA neanderthal who couldn't pass high school algebra three years in a row. I hate doing taxes and accounting because my brain doesn't grasp numbers. I'm a visual right-brain type, which is why I'm so good with cinematography. But I totally suck at business.. it takes me 3 months just to figure and file my income taxes. I've been working on them since mid-January and am barely halfway done.

Some of the companies I called last year had their phones disconnected when I called this year. Most don't see video as absolutely essential to their survival. It's a very hard sell.