How To Get Started and Stay In The Business

How are your wedding packages working out for you?

btw why do you blog about extremist politics? It probably wasn't Vendermate that made your hospital client go away but your extremist blog!
 
Educating clients is part of the job. When these bottom-drawer clients come to your door asking you to do work for $600, it's your responsibility to explain to them why you can't – and why that's good for them. This is a really important part of the sales process, actually. If you can't explain/justify the value of what you provide, how can you expect to succeed?
 
Of course Doug, you are right. Though I would have a tough time charging near as much as experienced wedding producers when I have NO wedding experience at all. ZERO portfolio. In fact, I have only been to like 3 weddings in my of life (my friends and family don't get married... what am I gonna do??) I hardly know what goes on at a wedding. So much so that I'm grateful to be considered being sourced by a wedding production company by my corporate reel alone (and the fact that I'm a decent guy). Moreover, when someone asks me if I can shoot a wedding for $600, it's my job to say 'I can'. Why? Because I'm not booked for that weekend, and if you don't book me I'll not have a wedding to shoot and I'll be where I am now, no experience and no portfolio, thus no credibility to prove that I can do the job no matter how hard I try to sell them.

Hopefully by next summer I'll be able to raise my rate and be competitive in the open market.

Having said all that, how do you justify the value of what you provide? Most people when they hear a price they don't like, they will just go "Oh... emm... I'll get back to you." and that will be the last time you ever talk to them. So how do you justify your price?

I think the price justification happens BEFORE you tell them your price when they already have some level of expectation of your price range, and AFTER they do their own research to realize that your price is fair (if it is fair) for your level of work.

I know people who are talented at what they do, but are not very experienced. They price themselves at the same level as experienced competitions and end up not getting the amount of work they would like, and fail.

EDIT: and the "find the clients who are willing to pay" justification obviously doesn't work for Basspig.
 
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The problem is that the clients who are willing to pay are generally also looking for you to have the experience to back it up.

You gotta put food on the table. I completely understand. I worked through years of shitty jobs for clients I hated that weren't paying enough. Worked harder than I needed to to get the job done, because I knew at the end of the day, for me, it was about having something to put on the reel worth showing, even if it was better than what the client deserved. But it was still a slog that I hated at times.

But, there are still ways of framing that conversation that are constructive to your future, and will probably even help you weed out the bad apple clients that are going to make your life hell. For starters, when you agree to take the $600 job, present it as what it really should be: a polite favor. Say, "Look, I really need to be charging twice what you're paying me, but I understand you only have the $600, and I'm willing to work with you on that because I want to show you the work I can do." This is a non-offensive statement that, presented confidently, helps build your apparent value. When I invoice discount clients, I include the full normal price on the invoice and THEN discount it, so they can see the normal price of what they're getting.

The thing you DO NOT WANT, which this helps to avoid, is to become known as "the $600 wedding guy." Ideally, you only have to do that once, and then your work and your work ethic starts to demand a higher price all by itself. But you're going to have to work a lot harder than $600 is worth. Consider it an investment.
 
chromeboy007 said:
How are your wedding packages working out for you?

btw why do you blog about extremist politics? It probably wasn't Vendermate that made your hospital client go away but your extremist blog!
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Not much happening with the weddings. One gal e-mailed us last week; initially, her hesitation was the price, but then I said I would match it (with necessary reductions in what I'd do for that price--which I politely explained to her). Her response was that she decided to go with another videographer anyway. I asked why. She said she felt that we 'didn't have a good connection', whatever that means.

"Extremist politics"? Since when has promoting anything other than theft and socialism become extremist? I do it as part of my duty to resist tyranny--something too many selfish people fail to do, which is why we are in the mess we are in today. I much doubt the hospital client even knows about the blog, as I write under a pseudonym and don't include the link in correspondense with clients.


Dougspice, I did just what you described, with the last few wedding clients. I explained to them why the cheap videographer would likely produce disappointing results, that there may be a lot of hidden fees for re-edits and that the other guy may be using ancient gear and maybe even consumer gear (yes, one lady I talked to about her daughter's event showed me HER wedding video--it was worse than Uncle Charlie). These people just don't get it. Maybe if I had Oprah explain it they might get it.


To do a wedding real cheap like that means I give up family responsibilities for far less money than doing so is worth. Do I take myself out of being a husband and dad for a week for $2500? Sure. For $600? No way! These guys are probably working under the table and have no liability insurance either. If you're shooting two cameras, you gotta pay the 2nd camera op--that's $400 and up around here for half a day. After insurance, staff payment, gas and misc expenses, I'm not even earning $0. I'm giving up cash. What's going to pay my $970/month property taxes and $500/month electric bill?
 
dougspice said:
But, there are still ways of framing that conversation that are constructive to your future, and will probably even help you weed out the bad apple clients that are going to make your life hell. For starters, when you agree to take the $600 job, present it as what it really should be: a polite favor. Say, "Look, I really need to be charging twice what you're paying me, but I understand you only have the $600, and I'm willing to work with you on that because I want to show you the work I can do." This is a non-offensive statement that, presented confidently, helps build your apparent value. When I invoice discount clients, I include the full normal price on the invoice and THEN discount it, so they can see the normal price of what they're getting.

The thing you DO NOT WANT, which this helps to avoid, is to become known as "the $600 wedding guy." Ideally, you only have to do that once, and then your work and your work ethic starts to demand a higher price all by itself. But you're going to have to work a lot harder than $600 is worth. Consider it an investment.
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Oh yeah definitely... that's what I would be saying for the next while. I generally work as hard as the pay for the job. The higher they pay me the harder and better I work. Though I think ultimately it probably is a bad attitude... that I should work as hard for the $600 as I would for higher paying jobs. Thanks for the advice.
 
Basspig - no I would never charge only $600 for a 2-cam wedding shoot. But if that's all the budget they have, why don't you just do 1 cam anyways. It's not like your schedule is full.

Liability insurance? LOL!
 
Excellent posting Doug!

ChromeDude, keep in mind that whether the client is paying $200 or $2000 for your work, their shot is still just as important to them. I understand your thought process for a "good / better / best" pricing scheme but when that work is out there its your reputation on the line. I have one level of quality and that is my best whether I'm working full-rate or pro-bono.

Make sure your clients see the full price for a job and then a discount on the proposal and invoice so they know you did them a favor. Show them you busted ass for the lower rate and they'll tell others, you just need to make sure they know their deal is a one-time offer because you got XYZ in trade for it.

The bottom line is if your prospects and clients do not appreciate your fair market value pricing it's time to find new prospects and clients. That is all part of the prequalification process where you decide if they are suspects or prospect potential.

Mark: I'm very conservative in my views on government and politics, the Gadsden Flag pretty much sums it up. I'm also very active in tactical firearms competition. However, I do not mix business with politics or firearms and I keep those posts and message boards completely separate from my business activities. When it comes to business, there's simply no room for any potential conflict with clients; to succeed you need to be as neutral as possible. That doesn't mean not being yourself unless your daily persona is worn on your sleeve. By the same token, in our country you are free to be yourself but clients are also free to select someone else if they sense that you have strong views that do not blend with their belief system. When you are rich and famous you can be yourself all the time but even for celebrities and the wealthy there is a price to pay for it.

That's the end of politics in this thread. Back to our regularly scheduled programming of "How To Get Started and Stay In The Business"

Great dialogue folks... keep it coming!

Robert
 
I missed the Liability Insurance comment:

Proper insurance is a cost of doing business, not just protecting you against loss of equipment or damage, but also protecting you from our ever increasing litigious society.

Accidents happen, people get hurt, others equipment gets damaged or locations are damaged.

Lawyers sue using a broad brush, that is to say they sue everyone and then force you to defend yourself which is very costly; particularly in personal injury cases. Imagine someone simply tripping over you, your gear or something you touched during the day. You can be held liable and if they can prove you were negligent in any way by not securing a cord or bag then you've got negligence to deal with and negligence can't be signed off in a waiver or release.

Having proper insurance coverage is another way of "How To Stay In The Business"
 
lol Doug I wasn't gonna..

The only point I was trying to make is that don't try to sell truffle to somebody who only wants to, or could only afford to, buy mushrooms.
 
For the staying in touch part...

I'm getting about 30 and a lot of people from HS/College are getting married - not a single call really, even though I'm a wedding video guy.

Bring that up after they're married, wondering where a phone call was...reponse "Oh you still do that?"

Or "Come on what are you really doing? You're not still doing that crap?" (didn't know how to take that one LOL).

Networking: It's like a scale. If you network with someone above you, they have so many people already and don't think much of you most likely. And probably will see it as butt kissing LOL. Network with someone equal to you or maybe even a few years behind and grow together, as you'll monopolize their attention. Some industries, especially film, are generational, so tactics of marketting and networking that worked with established companies 20 years in business by 50-60 year olds may be dried out, with a new wave of 30 somethings entering changing the game - be on top of that. Weddings are an example of this, I think just now in the past year or so with the coming of the DSLR's especially, introduced younger blood into the market and you're seeing much more thought out and status quo-challenging videos being made, while a more established studio is still making 2 camera security cam cuts at 2 hrs. Younger, upstart, studios are doing a successful job with this and just a few years half the studio was probably part time doing a desk job. (ok that maybe an exaggeration, but hopefully you get the point).
 
Hi Psynema, thanks for joining the discussion!

If your friends are asking if "you still do that" I guess your new "Thirty something" method of networking apparently isn't working with them.

The foundational element of networking and marketing has not changed over the generations; find your prospects, figure out their primary buying motives, establish credibility and show them you have the services and products to give them what they want.

What has definitely changed over the years has been the way in which you maintain long-term recognition with your clients. Social media such as Facebook and Twitter being two examples. But, you have to differentiate your personal online persona from your business persona especially in the business world. The political commentary, fart jokes and tequila party photos have no place on your social media business pages.

As for those ground breaking "status quo challenging" videos the "younger generation" are making, every generation thought they were making the same thing in their time and in most cases they were as maybe you are now. Simply put, you're not that special or any more "game changing" to your generation than the generations of the past were to their peers.

As a commercial studio owner for 27 years, I made it a point to hire creative staff who were either generationally or creatively more current in the market at the time to keep our work fresh and to push me as the Producer/Director creatively as well. That kept us competitive and closer to the cutting edge. Having the resources (money and client base) allowed my staff the luxury of trying new styles without bankrupting the company.

I love seeing new blood and the younger generations come into the business and I love seeing them adapt and use new technology in ways even the manufacturers didn't anticipate. But new technology, just because it allows a more affordable entry point does not change the need for constant networking, solid business practices, flawless work and exceptional customer service. The challenge young upstart studios face remains; Getting in the business and staying in the business!

That's what this thread is all about!

Thanks for the great post and please stick with us as I'm sure everyone here would like to hear your success stories and how you are making it happen.

Robert
 
A bit off our current topic, a few days ago I put an ad on craigslist looking for a potential second cam on a corporate shoot, and you have no idea the amount of inexperienced applicants sending their portfolios in... that is if they even have any sample videos. I notice that a lot of them less experienced ones are shooting with DSLR. You can tell they have decent quality cams but lack the skills to use them and also lack supplementary gear as basic things like white balance, exposure, lighting and audio are generally not very good. They also typically mess up their compression and frame rate settings. Ironically some of the applicants with lesser equipment actually have more skills.

For the same ad, people are asking for anywhere from $300 to $3000... and the $3000 ones aren't always even good.

How do normal folks even begin to make sense of it all? They probably go back to price points.
 
What else would you expect from Craigslist?

Wording your ad properly and professionally to require qualifications or certain experience helps but you'll still get people trying to break into the business or just get a break. The few times I've used CL to find someone in a distant location I'm pretty blunt " ** No Beginners! No Kidding! ** No Cryin' No Whinin' "

Whenever we do use CL I always make sure that each QUALIFIED respondent gets a thank you response once we've found someone; it is the professional thing to do.

Robert
 
robstar1 said:
Hi Psynema, thanks for joining the discussion!

If your friends are asking if "you still do that" I guess your new "Thirty something" method of networking apparently isn't working with them.
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Actually not friends just people y'a knew back in the day you haven't kept up with - just saying plant the seeds early before there's competition for your attention. One of the people that said "You still do that" actually shot his wedding once he learned, his friends wedding, and potentially a friend of that friend...so two different situations - actually was agreeing with the keeping in touch part you said earlier, not really contradicting it. But you get tunnel vision sometimes going after established strangers, not realizing what you had access to the whole time.

As far as weddings go - not that many are interested, I'd say yeah, the younger generations (under 40 and just opened shop a few years ago) are making a great impact in terms of video studios, so just saying, it's good to keep an eye out on potential colleagues and start up businesses before they reach tipping point. For example - a company with 1000 people in a high rise that's been around for almost 100 years probably has established contacts already competing with you. I wouldn't be quick to snub start ups since, hey, younger the business, the more they need advertising, and probably no one else is contacting them relatively speaking, there's room in their rolodex.
 
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anyone read Daniel Pinks "A Whole New Mind"?

Great book - common sense while reading it, then you realize why you may be in a rut.
 
Psynema said in part:<<... For example - a company with 1000 people in a high rise that's been around for almost 100 years probably has established contacts already competing with you....>>

Yes and no, large companies have downsized and eliminated in-house production departments and have laid off or restructured employees in every department.

If they are using someone already, that is great news for anyone else as they are essentially prequalified as a prospect. In fact, consider them a hot prospect!

As employees and staff come and go, so do the relationships with vendors. The only reason they may be using the current vendor is the boss has a long relationship with them. If the boss gets cut or moves on, the new decision maker may not have the same alliance and loyalty. They could actually have been begging to try someone different for years! If you've been doing your job of staying in touch and building relationships, this can be your chance. You might just call on the perfect day!

Also, all departments are under pressure to do more with less, try new concepts and anything else to keep the company afloat and surviving. I've seen this happen here in Vegas in the last three months with a large multi-location casino brand. They had been using one local production company exclusively for 15+ years, occasionally strayed but always came back. They've now found a full-service production group from outside the area and have given their business to them in a desperate push to change things up and get more butts in beds and the seats at the gaming tables.

Sadly, the local production company had all or most of their eggs in just a few baskets and this is a major hit to their business. I've gently urged them for years to diversify and focus on marketing but to no avail.

A large company may actually give you more opportunity and potential to break into than a small company since the staff turnover may be higher and the pressure to perform may be as well. Plus, you're fishing in a bigger pond with deeper pockets, hopefully higher budgets and a more diverse range of project needs.

Robert
 
I just finished reading all of your posts in this thread Robert and I must say I am very impressed with not only your knowledge, but also your generosity to share said knowledge, your tact, and your positivity.

Since I started reading this thread (and doing other business research) 4 months ago, I have taken some steps to turn around the way I view business ethically and the way I market myself and my company.

Your thread actually inspired me to contact someone that I met almost a year ago while he was walking his dog. I was directing and photographing a film that I wrote at the time and was wearing a Steadicam when he walked by us talking about a shot. He stopped and told me all about the film work he used to do and that he now does marketing for a company, etc, etc. My business partner called him and he never got back to him (I'm assuming because he did not recognize the name), we moved on and I'm sure he did too. I recently decided to send him an e-mail just seeing how everything was going (I am subscribed to his weekly company news letter, via e-mail) and if he needed any video work done. He responded within 10 minutes saying that now could not have been a better time to contact him and that he wants to meet my business partner and I, along with one of his business associates. I did a little more research and it turns out the reason why now was such a good time is that the company he works for just signed a military contract of over $150 million. Needless to say I'm very excited to meet with them and hopefully begin working with them.

I will let you know how the meeting goes, but I just wanted to stop by and say thank you for inspiring me as well as the other filmmakers who have read your postings. We are truly blessed.
 
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