filmmakinglifestyle
New member
+1.
Clients will always demand that "rough price" from the get-go. Sometimes it's a deal breaker. Solid post.
How To Get Started and Stay In The Business
- Thread starter robstar1
- Start date
+1.
Clients will always demand that "rough price" from the get-go. Sometimes it's a deal breaker. Solid post.
Welcome to the thread and thank for your comment Sir!
The best thing to do is the more they ask for a rough price, the more you ask questions and try to sort out the details. Sometimes it's easier for clients to tell you what they don't want than what they do want. They've come to you for solutions hopefully.
The best thing to do is the more they ask for a rough price, the more you ask questions and try to sort out the details. Sometimes it's easier for clients to tell you what they don't want than what they do want. They've come to you for solutions hopefully.
Okay, here's an update.
First, I get so busy, and have such a crappy memory for this stuff, I forget what I post here!! It's kinda cool, like reading my own posts for the first time.
So after our editor debacle, we brought on a recent college grad, part time. This time, we focused on the traits we needed for an editor, listened very closely to the answers, and found our guy. He's been with us for 6-7 months and he's kicking a$$!!!!
Basically, we found our guy by making mistakes and learning from them. Don't be afraid of making mistakes.
First, I get so busy, and have such a crappy memory for this stuff, I forget what I post here!! It's kinda cool, like reading my own posts for the first time.
So after our editor debacle, we brought on a recent college grad, part time. This time, we focused on the traits we needed for an editor, listened very closely to the answers, and found our guy. He's been with us for 6-7 months and he's kicking a$$!!!!
Basically, we found our guy by making mistakes and learning from them. Don't be afraid of making mistakes.
QuickHitRecord
Veteran
Wow. What an epic, comprehensive, one-of-a-kind resource this thread has become! It's tailored precisely to what so many of us on DVXuser are doing (or trying to do). If it were a book, I'd tell you that I wasn't able to put it down. Thanks to Robert and everyone who has posted and kept it going for this long.
I have been on this site for a few years, but only recently left my corporate in-house job to pursue freelance opportunities - and to add to the complexity, I'm in a new city where I really don't know anyone yet. I figure that if I'm going to put in the effort to build up a client base, I want it to be somewhere I could see myself staying for a while (Portland, you're it!).
For those curious, here's my website: www.QuickHitRecord.com
I'm two months in and I already have one great client; a local company that almost hired me two years ago, and who I've kept in touch with since. They have hired me for three shoots. But if I ever want to eat anything other than rice and beans again, I'll need to double the amount of work I have been getting. If I ever want to retire, I'll need to triple it.
Fortunately for me, I stumbled across this thread! Which is great, because I already have a question.
Almost a decade ago, I was hired to do some part-time marketing work at a medium-sized printing company. I put together a list of 500 names and addresses of likely print buyers and sent them each a series of four postcards and four emails (all sent from the company president's email account, to which I had access), all staggered on my calendar so that the people on the list would get something from us every month for eight months. The messaging focused on interesting facts about printing in general, the benefits of using certain inks over others, questions an environmentally-conscious print buyer asks before choosing a printer, etc.
If I recall correctly, in all of those four thousand or so mailings, we got about five UNSUBSCRIBE emails, maybe two or three one-word responses ("Neat!"), and no calls or emails of inquiry to speak of. I wasn't able to generate a single lead with this approach (I did produce a video for them later that had better results, but that's another story). However, the company president would sit at his desk with his rolodex and make calls all day. By himself, he was able to bring in enough business to keep nineteen employees working.
So I must ask: Is calling really that much more effective than sending out emails/direct mail? I know that some people in this thread have made "warm" calls and others have sent emails, but has anyone been doing both? I'd like to hear about your thoughts and experiences.
I have been on this site for a few years, but only recently left my corporate in-house job to pursue freelance opportunities - and to add to the complexity, I'm in a new city where I really don't know anyone yet. I figure that if I'm going to put in the effort to build up a client base, I want it to be somewhere I could see myself staying for a while (Portland, you're it!).
For those curious, here's my website: www.QuickHitRecord.com
I'm two months in and I already have one great client; a local company that almost hired me two years ago, and who I've kept in touch with since. They have hired me for three shoots. But if I ever want to eat anything other than rice and beans again, I'll need to double the amount of work I have been getting. If I ever want to retire, I'll need to triple it.
Fortunately for me, I stumbled across this thread! Which is great, because I already have a question.
Almost a decade ago, I was hired to do some part-time marketing work at a medium-sized printing company. I put together a list of 500 names and addresses of likely print buyers and sent them each a series of four postcards and four emails (all sent from the company president's email account, to which I had access), all staggered on my calendar so that the people on the list would get something from us every month for eight months. The messaging focused on interesting facts about printing in general, the benefits of using certain inks over others, questions an environmentally-conscious print buyer asks before choosing a printer, etc.
If I recall correctly, in all of those four thousand or so mailings, we got about five UNSUBSCRIBE emails, maybe two or three one-word responses ("Neat!"), and no calls or emails of inquiry to speak of. I wasn't able to generate a single lead with this approach (I did produce a video for them later that had better results, but that's another story). However, the company president would sit at his desk with his rolodex and make calls all day. By himself, he was able to bring in enough business to keep nineteen employees working.
So I must ask: Is calling really that much more effective than sending out emails/direct mail? I know that some people in this thread have made "warm" calls and others have sent emails, but has anyone been doing both? I'd like to hear about your thoughts and experiences.
Last edited:
Welcome to the most important thread in this whole forum!
You answered your own question when you referred to your old boss. You said he was able to keep nineteen employees paid by making calls? So there you go!!
However, I would hope and assume that through the years, he developed, as you will, a great network of people that refer him business. I feel that, as a business owner, it's a right of passage to make the cold calls, get rejected, develop thick skin, repeat. Just as it's a right of passage to be an intern, fetch coffee, grab that c stand and shut up and make mistakes. It weeds out the folks who don't want it.
When you first start a business, you usually have a lot of time on your hands because you don't have a bunch of work. You better bust your a$$ and find some work because what you have NOW, is time, in the future, hopefully you won't have as much idle time because you'll be working. Spend your time networking, making connections and making calls. You can practice shooting and editing along the way.
Also, what making calls does for you, is it helps you listen. Emails don't. Post cards don't. It's been said on this forum a bunch, "listen to your clients." Start with strangers, there's no penalty for failure.
QuickHitRecord
Veteran
Thanks, Woody. I've kept in touch with my old boss after all these years, so I'll give him a call and ask him for some pointers.
Time is definitely my most valuable commodity right now. In addition to calls I am planning to approach local charities to offer some pro-bono work. That could always lead to something. And any time that I am out in the community with a professional camera, it's free advertising.
I was going to start the big marketing push this week, but two big edits just dropped in my lap so it looks like it may have to be next week.
Time is definitely my most valuable commodity right now. In addition to calls I am planning to approach local charities to offer some pro-bono work. That could always lead to something. And any time that I am out in the community with a professional camera, it's free advertising.
I was going to start the big marketing push this week, but two big edits just dropped in my lap so it looks like it may have to be next week.
Very good to keep in touch with old bosses, they can be a great mentor resource. At some point, business is business, regardless of what it is, and if you have someone, say, like Robert Starling, to get wisdom from, that is truly priceless. The pro bono work: my advice would be to temper your expectations as to what referrals you might get from that, it's a mixed bag. Use it as a chance to come up with some great ideas and see what sticks. They might want total talking heads, so be it. However, many, many companies are open to new ideas, so talk with them, LISTEN to what they need, and see what you can do for them.
DPStewart
Veteran
Wow. The business. Yikes.
Yeah - Emails and ads don't seem to do much of anything at all. Especially with any product that is even halfway "creative".
Back in the 90's I ran a recording studio in Chicago, and like most of the other big studios I ran monthly ads in the local music and arts magazine - most cities have them. But in YEARS of doing that it never generated a dime.
I mean MAYBE it helped because people hear about you - so later when they book you from word-of-mouth recommendations they've already heard of you so it lends you some credibility..
When trying to get someone to hire you to do something creative they have to RELATE to you. They have to feel that they know a bit (or a lot) about you and the type of creativity you wield. They need to be comfortable with you and your skills.
I don't think that is ever going to come from a cold ad.
I would say that nearly ALL of my business has been word of mouth. It's rare that someone hires me who doesn't know or interact with someone I've done work for previously.
More and more every year people understand that pro-looking video can be made with equipment that ANYONE can afford - so increasingly you have to stand on YOUR own STYLE of work. Which can be a weird thing because that often means injecting more of your own opinions into the work - and that's not something I think is always appropriate. But there it is....
It's a damn tough industry to get work in. There is SO MUCH competition.
All I can say is you have to get out there and meet more people than you ever imagined you could....
...and then charm them all.
No problem, right?
Yeah - Emails and ads don't seem to do much of anything at all. Especially with any product that is even halfway "creative".
Back in the 90's I ran a recording studio in Chicago, and like most of the other big studios I ran monthly ads in the local music and arts magazine - most cities have them. But in YEARS of doing that it never generated a dime.
I mean MAYBE it helped because people hear about you - so later when they book you from word-of-mouth recommendations they've already heard of you so it lends you some credibility..
When trying to get someone to hire you to do something creative they have to RELATE to you. They have to feel that they know a bit (or a lot) about you and the type of creativity you wield. They need to be comfortable with you and your skills.
I don't think that is ever going to come from a cold ad.
I would say that nearly ALL of my business has been word of mouth. It's rare that someone hires me who doesn't know or interact with someone I've done work for previously.
More and more every year people understand that pro-looking video can be made with equipment that ANYONE can afford - so increasingly you have to stand on YOUR own STYLE of work. Which can be a weird thing because that often means injecting more of your own opinions into the work - and that's not something I think is always appropriate. But there it is....
It's a damn tough industry to get work in. There is SO MUCH competition.
All I can say is you have to get out there and meet more people than you ever imagined you could....
...and then charm them all.
No problem, right?
adamrahn
Well-known member
Funny to see that this thread got a post the day I quit my day job to pursue freelance full time 
I've produced videos at a university for several years, and then on nights and weekends doing freelance work. Hustling on the side for years has really paid off and it was to the point where I was using too many vacation days to handle my side work. I will say I read this post front to back multiple times a year or so ago, and it prompted dreams of doing this very thing - happy to say that it was definitely an influence on me in a positive way (if I'm starving, broke, and sobbing in like 6 months I'll blame that on this post too).
Adam
I've produced videos at a university for several years, and then on nights and weekends doing freelance work. Hustling on the side for years has really paid off and it was to the point where I was using too many vacation days to handle my side work. I will say I read this post front to back multiple times a year or so ago, and it prompted dreams of doing this very thing - happy to say that it was definitely an influence on me in a positive way (if I'm starving, broke, and sobbing in like 6 months I'll blame that on this post too).Adam
So glad this thread still gets visitors and provides benefit. For the most part it is timeless information and process! Im humbled and blown away that it still lives after my first post in Jan 2007!!!
My business continues to grow and evolve in many ways. We did a logo refresh this year and have a new website in the works. Facebook and Instagram are now a part of our networking and marketing as is Constant Contact and Twiiter. LinkedIn not so much for me.
My private one on one business consulting workshops now have a 4-6 month waiting list but I occasionally have a more immediate opening due to clients who book a big job and need to reschedule. It's the best two days you'll ever spend growing your business.
Thanks all! Please post your questions and successes!
Robert
My business continues to grow and evolve in many ways. We did a logo refresh this year and have a new website in the works. Facebook and Instagram are now a part of our networking and marketing as is Constant Contact and Twiiter. LinkedIn not so much for me.
My private one on one business consulting workshops now have a 4-6 month waiting list but I occasionally have a more immediate opening due to clients who book a big job and need to reschedule. It's the best two days you'll ever spend growing your business.
Thanks all! Please post your questions and successes!
Robert
Hi Rob and Everyone,
Thank you for all of the valuable information. I have read your posts and this thread from A-Z and am ready to begin embarking on the sales call journey. (I'll provide my info relavant to my situation at the bottom if you think this might helpful in answering the question... maybe not?)
I understand that you have to research and prospect before making the sale. My question is: Is it more beneficial/better use of time/more effective to do these initial sales visits over the phone (versus stopping by a business in person)?
I know that picking up the phone is faster than driving around town, but do you lose the opportunity to make that intiial impression and put a face to the name?
Thanks for all the help (and everyone else that has contributed),
Justin
Mini-Bio:
I am a former ENG apprentice (from a major network news org. in Washington DC) who has relocated to Canada. The outfit I am working for has a 36 year history in the city (of 250,000) and its bread and butter has been school photography. I am taking my skills to grow the corporate client list. We do stills (and people hire us for professional headshots, and product photography) but I see a huge demand (and not a lot of competition in town) for video services. Video is my background and my interest), and I'd like to get away from the cookie cutter headshot routine. I've developed a branding strategy to differentiate our corporate identity from our school identity (since people in town know the company but don't know that we do more than school photography). We have several large corporations (some multinational) that we work with and I would like to get more in my rolodex.
My business partner who looks after schools, does the sales/PR/customer service is very good at his job, and for him, going into the schools and meeting with the administrators is his method of sales calls. He suggests I do the same, as this city is driven very much by personal connections. However, I do not think this is necessarily appropriate for approaching large corporate clients. My thoughts are the prospecting calls method, making appointments, etc. is more appropriate- at least until we are invited to make a pitch. This is where we disagree (he has more experience selling, but I have worked in the coporate world as well for several years and understand corporate "decorum" and chain of command).... Thoughts?
Oh and our website is horrible... I am working on redesigning that as well.
Thank you for all of the valuable information. I have read your posts and this thread from A-Z and am ready to begin embarking on the sales call journey. (I'll provide my info relavant to my situation at the bottom if you think this might helpful in answering the question... maybe not?)
I understand that you have to research and prospect before making the sale. My question is: Is it more beneficial/better use of time/more effective to do these initial sales visits over the phone (versus stopping by a business in person)?
I know that picking up the phone is faster than driving around town, but do you lose the opportunity to make that intiial impression and put a face to the name?
Thanks for all the help (and everyone else that has contributed),
Justin
Mini-Bio:
I am a former ENG apprentice (from a major network news org. in Washington DC) who has relocated to Canada. The outfit I am working for has a 36 year history in the city (of 250,000) and its bread and butter has been school photography. I am taking my skills to grow the corporate client list. We do stills (and people hire us for professional headshots, and product photography) but I see a huge demand (and not a lot of competition in town) for video services. Video is my background and my interest), and I'd like to get away from the cookie cutter headshot routine. I've developed a branding strategy to differentiate our corporate identity from our school identity (since people in town know the company but don't know that we do more than school photography). We have several large corporations (some multinational) that we work with and I would like to get more in my rolodex.
My business partner who looks after schools, does the sales/PR/customer service is very good at his job, and for him, going into the schools and meeting with the administrators is his method of sales calls. He suggests I do the same, as this city is driven very much by personal connections. However, I do not think this is necessarily appropriate for approaching large corporate clients. My thoughts are the prospecting calls method, making appointments, etc. is more appropriate- at least until we are invited to make a pitch. This is where we disagree (he has more experience selling, but I have worked in the coporate world as well for several years and understand corporate "decorum" and chain of command).... Thoughts?
Oh and our website is horrible... I am working on redesigning that as well.
Anyone still alive?
10+ years, sheesh! I've read over this thread about 2 times and here again looking to put a more serious foot towards growing my client base. 2018, how the landscape has changed. I have a question for everyone still active. How much of your marketing effort is now phone call based vs social media driven?
10+ years, sheesh! I've read over this thread about 2 times and here again looking to put a more serious foot towards growing my client base. 2018, how the landscape has changed. I have a question for everyone still active. How much of your marketing effort is now phone call based vs social media driven?
bill totolo
Veteran
My employment has been based on 0% social media, 0% marketing, 01% reach out.
99% relationships and personal contacts... so far.
Don't get me wrong, I've tried social media, marketing, and reaching out. Just hasn't worked for me yet.
Wish I had the answers.
99% relationships and personal contacts... so far.
Don't get me wrong, I've tried social media, marketing, and reaching out. Just hasn't worked for me yet.
Wish I had the answers.
Found a link to this thread on a FB videographers site. Have spent hours reading through 48 pages of posts ... so worth it! The advice doled out here is priceless. However, I have one question:
How relevant are the 20 "investigative" calls a day seeing as we're now in 2020 and text / instant messages have taken the place of phone calls?
I understand it's all about relationship building, and trying to figure out how best to build those new relationships (I'm in a new city / country, and new to commercial videography - background is in videojournalism and making short docs).
Let's see if anybody's out there ....
How relevant are the 20 "investigative" calls a day seeing as we're now in 2020 and text / instant messages have taken the place of phone calls?
I understand it's all about relationship building, and trying to figure out how best to build those new relationships (I'm in a new city / country, and new to commercial videography - background is in videojournalism and making short docs).
Let's see if anybody's out there ....
Holy cow, it's been a loooooong while.
To your question about "investigative" calls.
Call them whatever you want, but to me, these are cold calls.
YUCK!!!
But I'll tell you this, I've made hundreds of thousands of dollars through the years because of cold calls. I'm not kidding.
I can't harp on this enough: TAKE SALES TRAINING!!!!
Win Without Pitching is a good one. Sandler Sales is what I take.
This year alone I have closed several brand new clients from cold calls. Complete strangers.
Like you, I started going after a brand new market, so I had to start from zero.
But using what I learned from sales made it perfectly possible to land new business from nothing but a phone number.
I sympathize with any film maker who needs business. I was there and I'm still there! We didn't get into this business to do sales or make cold calls.
But that's the reality of business. It has to come from somewhere and wouldn't you rather be in control of who you work with?
To your question about "investigative" calls.
Call them whatever you want, but to me, these are cold calls.
YUCK!!!
But I'll tell you this, I've made hundreds of thousands of dollars through the years because of cold calls. I'm not kidding.
I can't harp on this enough: TAKE SALES TRAINING!!!!
Win Without Pitching is a good one. Sandler Sales is what I take.
This year alone I have closed several brand new clients from cold calls. Complete strangers.
Like you, I started going after a brand new market, so I had to start from zero.
But using what I learned from sales made it perfectly possible to land new business from nothing but a phone number.
I sympathize with any film maker who needs business. I was there and I'm still there! We didn't get into this business to do sales or make cold calls.
But that's the reality of business. It has to come from somewhere and wouldn't you rather be in control of who you work with?