That is what I'm talking about
How much do you charge?
- Thread starter Chadfish
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basspig
Veteran
I don't think I charge enough.. I just took my wife's truck in for service and came back with a repair estimate over $3K! $310 just to change a thermostat. $915 for a throttle body.. egads.. plus a few other small items. We're not talking engine overhaul here!
I did one concert last April for which I was able to get $1250.
Naturally, I can't afford the repair and will decline it. But I think I don't charge enough, but I charge more than most folks up my way want to pay. Ugh,.
I did one concert last April for which I was able to get $1250.
Naturally, I can't afford the repair and will decline it. But I think I don't charge enough, but I charge more than most folks up my way want to pay. Ugh,.
basspig
Veteran
I have an associate who charges $50 per shoot and he's getting work. Can't say much for the quality of his work though.
I suppose I could drop my rates to get work, and then qualify for welfare and EBT card. I could be getting 60 grand in welfare benefits as long as I earn below $12/hr. Then when a 'client' asks how can I afford my gear, I just tell them that either you pay me directly, or the government pays me indirectly, for the gear.
Yup... The business has changed in many ways in the last 27 years I've been doing this full time. It never has been a business where you make a lot of money... at least not on a regular basis. The advent of the DSLR really killed it for a lot of us. That lowered the "get in" bar and brought in tons of competition that competed on low prices alone. You had to find a way to adapt and market your "quality"... which is no easy task. Having done it for all these years, I'm thinking of doing a series of classes on the subject to be called "Video Business 101".
basspig
Veteran
Even cellphone cameras are obviating the need for a crew. And I must admit, as the owner of a new smartphone gifted to me for Christmas by my wife, that they have amazing technology now, including stabilization that makes for steadicam like shots. Being lightweight, it's easy to focus on the shot, instead of my aching back. My humungous rig makes better images, but getting good moves is physically demanding.
We're relegated to high budget projects, but the competition is much greater.
We're relegated to high budget projects, but the competition is much greater.
Pricing and Rates is an interesting subject. I even wrote a guide about it with five ways to calculate your rate and different pricing strategies.
A higher (hourly) rate results in higher self-esteem; a good rate is important for your wallet, but even more important for your happiness. Studies show that fair compensation for your work increases your self-esteem and happiness. Thus, lowering your prices will lower your self-image.
It appears that the price is determined not only by the quality or quantity of the item, but also and perhaps largely on the expectations of the buyer. Although, the price is obviously important and a price reduction can increase sales, there are also examples where a price decrease leads to a decrease in sales.
There is an American version too.
https://www.amazon.com/Freelance-Rate-Guide-best-price-ebook/dp/B01HFORDJY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466685908&sr=8-1&keywords=Freelance+Rate+Guide
A higher (hourly) rate results in higher self-esteem; a good rate is important for your wallet, but even more important for your happiness. Studies show that fair compensation for your work increases your self-esteem and happiness. Thus, lowering your prices will lower your self-image.
It appears that the price is determined not only by the quality or quantity of the item, but also and perhaps largely on the expectations of the buyer. Although, the price is obviously important and a price reduction can increase sales, there are also examples where a price decrease leads to a decrease in sales.
There is an American version too.
https://www.amazon.com/Freelance-Rate-Guide-best-price-ebook/dp/B01HFORDJY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466685908&sr=8-1&keywords=Freelance+Rate+Guide
basspig
Veteran
I can attest to the self esteem issue. I refuse to work for $2/hr like some folks in my area are doing just to have work. But the problem is that my phone doesn't ring, often for years at a time. I haven't had a good orchestra gig since 2011. I've done a couple of cheap rentals (accompanied by me) just to keep the gear employed, but even that is rare.
I guess I am somewhat lucky/in a different position than a lot of folks on here. . .I do have my own clients for shoots, but I do more work by far as a subcontractor/crew on larger/properly funded/crewed productions (not necessarily "big" projects, though I work on those too, but stuff with a 3-4 person crew vs just me). THESE folks all understand and don't quibble with industry standard rates. So when something lower end/lower budget comes along, it's somewhat easy to measure it against my "real" gigs, and say to myself "is it worth $xxx to do this work, since I can make $yyy operating a freakin teleprompter I don't even own and that's a lot less work?" (for instance). if the answer is still "yes", then I would take the gig, even if it's way less than I think I ought to be able to charge. If the answer is no, pass and stay home.
I suppose I could drop my rates to get work, and then qualify for welfare and EBT card. I could be getting 60 grand in welfare benefits as long as I earn below $12/hr. Then when a 'client' asks how can I afford my gear, I just tell them that either you pay me directly, or the government pays me indirectly, for the gear.
I don't think you can get $60K in welfare benefits, not even in CA. I told my regular customers, I have to raise rate in 2017, some drop me and some understand. I'm moving away from charging hourly rate to per show filming and processing rate
basspig
Veteran
I used to be able to get $125/hr. But many of the area guys were charging by the day not the hour, so I changed to charging a flat fee per project. I was doing elaborate concert shoots with 5 channel surround plus a backup stereo feed and four cameras for $2500. My 'budget' concert shoot was two microphones directly into the camera and two cameras for $1250. I used to do piano recitals for students of rich folks for $500 a pop. One camera, no moves. Competition entries for international pianist qualification.
But those jobs are pretty much gone. I'm only still alive because I can fix vacuum tube amplifiers, and that's kept me with a modest (under $10K) annual income.
I was reading an article last year about the 'welfare cliff', in which graphs showed the steep decline in welfare benefits as wages rise above $12/hr. It said that total benefits can approach $60K for those making under $12. That explains why I see people driving Escalades but using EBT cards at the grocery store.
But those jobs are pretty much gone. I'm only still alive because I can fix vacuum tube amplifiers, and that's kept me with a modest (under $10K) annual income.
I was reading an article last year about the 'welfare cliff', in which graphs showed the steep decline in welfare benefits as wages rise above $12/hr. It said that total benefits can approach $60K for those making under $12. That explains why I see people driving Escalades but using EBT cards at the grocery store.
doubledark
Well-known member
Mark, what happened to the concert work?
Curtis Mack
Active member
At a recent battle of the bands in Austin, the videographer who agreed to do the work did not show. So, my son's band improvised with someone's GoPro.
Curtis Mack
Active member
Is anyone maintaining or expanding their business? There's a lot of stuff written about branding and marketing. Does it work?
Interesting thread!!!
I am based in Tallahassee Florida and pull off all my productions either solo or occasionally bringing on a second shooter/pair of hands. I have steadily grown my business every year for the last 10 years. This has been my only source of income for the last 5 years.
As of two years ago I started listing my rates directly on my website. This year I realized fully that with how much enjoyment I get out of doing all aspects of production versus only filming, that I should change my price structure to produciton package options that more clearly help clients understand what they are getting versus listing hourly or daily rates for various services which is more gear toward being hired out by another company. I have been doing it long enough now that I have a formulas for each type of project to where I can understand the amount of time required for completion and giving it my all. If a client can't afford my rates and it is a project I would enjoy taking on or need to fill in a gap with, the publicly listed prices prove the discount they are getting which can add leverage to them pulling the trigger on booking the project.
Here is a direct link to my pricing pages and rates. How crazy do you guys around the country and rest of the world think it is to be such an open book on my rates like this? What do you think about the rates I am charging for the production quality I am providing? Super curious for some feedback and hope it helps those who are new to deciding on their rate plans for clients.
http://www.roughcutproductions.com/pricing.html
THANKS
I am based in Tallahassee Florida and pull off all my productions either solo or occasionally bringing on a second shooter/pair of hands. I have steadily grown my business every year for the last 10 years. This has been my only source of income for the last 5 years.
As of two years ago I started listing my rates directly on my website. This year I realized fully that with how much enjoyment I get out of doing all aspects of production versus only filming, that I should change my price structure to produciton package options that more clearly help clients understand what they are getting versus listing hourly or daily rates for various services which is more gear toward being hired out by another company. I have been doing it long enough now that I have a formulas for each type of project to where I can understand the amount of time required for completion and giving it my all. If a client can't afford my rates and it is a project I would enjoy taking on or need to fill in a gap with, the publicly listed prices prove the discount they are getting which can add leverage to them pulling the trigger on booking the project.
Here is a direct link to my pricing pages and rates. How crazy do you guys around the country and rest of the world think it is to be such an open book on my rates like this? What do you think about the rates I am charging for the production quality I am providing? Super curious for some feedback and hope it helps those who are new to deciding on their rate plans for clients.
http://www.roughcutproductions.com/pricing.html
THANKS
Hi Ash
I've been thinking about going down the same route. My thinking is that once potential clients have looked at your prices they at least have an idea of what they are up for. If the prices scare them away then you probably don't want the project anyway. Question for you. Are you dealing direct with the clients or are you going through Ad Agencies or other Production Companies. The reason i ask is their is no mention of script writing. I do know that some productions such as Documentaries are not scripted as such but from my experience the pre production on them can be time consuming - i.e. developing what the story should be about, the questions to ask etc. Or is this what you mean by storyboarding?
I understand the need to keep things simple but depending on who you are dealing with I find some of your terminology unusual, i.e. ...in theatre quality codecs. Even I am not sure what that means.
Also with your Music listing - MUSIC track licensed - I find the major cost involved with music tracks is the time taken to find the right track Maybe - Sourcing and Licensing appropriate music Track. Agencies and Production companies will know this.
Also when looking at some examples (which are very good by the way) say, the Trans Am On line commercial I thought wow, no way could you do this for $3,500. Now I know you say "Prices from" but my expectation could be that I could get an Ad like that for $3,500! I would think that the Concept development, scripting, casting, pre-production alone would be around that cost alone. Or was that done by others? Are you just costing the Production- Filming and editing etc?
Now I know this is tricky as all jobs are unique and I think you are on the right track, but if you are dealing direct to the end client their could be some confusion there.
I've been thinking about going down the same route. My thinking is that once potential clients have looked at your prices they at least have an idea of what they are up for. If the prices scare them away then you probably don't want the project anyway. Question for you. Are you dealing direct with the clients or are you going through Ad Agencies or other Production Companies. The reason i ask is their is no mention of script writing. I do know that some productions such as Documentaries are not scripted as such but from my experience the pre production on them can be time consuming - i.e. developing what the story should be about, the questions to ask etc. Or is this what you mean by storyboarding?
I understand the need to keep things simple but depending on who you are dealing with I find some of your terminology unusual, i.e. ...in theatre quality codecs. Even I am not sure what that means.
Also with your Music listing - MUSIC track licensed - I find the major cost involved with music tracks is the time taken to find the right track Maybe - Sourcing and Licensing appropriate music Track. Agencies and Production companies will know this.
Also when looking at some examples (which are very good by the way) say, the Trans Am On line commercial I thought wow, no way could you do this for $3,500. Now I know you say "Prices from" but my expectation could be that I could get an Ad like that for $3,500! I would think that the Concept development, scripting, casting, pre-production alone would be around that cost alone. Or was that done by others? Are you just costing the Production- Filming and editing etc?
Now I know this is tricky as all jobs are unique and I think you are on the right track, but if you are dealing direct to the end client their could be some confusion there.
Thanks neilmac.
I am handling all booking and concept creation for myself. I am trying to consolidate the terminolgy as it is geared directly at clients and not for other production companies. If potential clients read what I have on my homepage, it gives them a better idea of all the steps I personally cover for them which ensures they are getting the exact director/artist that has created all videos on the website. So, hopefully when they read the word "storyboarding" they will have a reference what all that entails from having read my approach on projects. I am totally inventing the theater quality codecs term becuase it seems to get clients in face to face meeting excited. They say wow, the same filming used for theaters? When I used the terms ProRes HQ or RAW, it didn't make thier skirt fly up because they don't know what it is. LOL. I like your terminology you provided for the music licensing better than what I have, so THANKS! I will go ahead and change that soon as I get the chance to update the site.
You are right in that it does take some time for pre-production! I actually produced the specific Trans Am piece you mentioned for $2,500 as that piece is older and I was charging less back then. For the starting prices I have listed, clients have to come up with thier own participants and locations which often times we get access to both for free. With Trans Am, which is one of my best and longest running clients, I usually collaborate with the owner on concepts so it was a joint venture on that one, whereas the "Burt Reynolds NEW Bandit" piece I came up with by myself and charged more for.
Honestly, almost every example on the page is accurate to the starting price I have listed or they paid less as I was working my way up the ladder. There are just a couple on there that required a larger budget due to how many location and travel needed for filming and amount of content to go through. This is partly why I am participating in this thread......how badly am I under charging? LOL
On the music videos, if rentals of props or locations is required, I do put that on the band and it is never a part of my invoice.
I am handling all booking and concept creation for myself. I am trying to consolidate the terminolgy as it is geared directly at clients and not for other production companies. If potential clients read what I have on my homepage, it gives them a better idea of all the steps I personally cover for them which ensures they are getting the exact director/artist that has created all videos on the website. So, hopefully when they read the word "storyboarding" they will have a reference what all that entails from having read my approach on projects. I am totally inventing the theater quality codecs term becuase it seems to get clients in face to face meeting excited. They say wow, the same filming used for theaters? When I used the terms ProRes HQ or RAW, it didn't make thier skirt fly up because they don't know what it is. LOL. I like your terminology you provided for the music licensing better than what I have, so THANKS! I will go ahead and change that soon as I get the chance to update the site.
You are right in that it does take some time for pre-production! I actually produced the specific Trans Am piece you mentioned for $2,500 as that piece is older and I was charging less back then. For the starting prices I have listed, clients have to come up with thier own participants and locations which often times we get access to both for free. With Trans Am, which is one of my best and longest running clients, I usually collaborate with the owner on concepts so it was a joint venture on that one, whereas the "Burt Reynolds NEW Bandit" piece I came up with by myself and charged more for.
Honestly, almost every example on the page is accurate to the starting price I have listed or they paid less as I was working my way up the ladder. There are just a couple on there that required a larger budget due to how many location and travel needed for filming and amount of content to go through. This is partly why I am participating in this thread......how badly am I under charging? LOL
On the music videos, if rentals of props or locations is required, I do put that on the band and it is never a part of my invoice.
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Hi Ash
Yes I do think you are undercharging. I will post later with more thoughts... I've got a job to finish. One thing though, even though the Trans AM job is older I would "quote" it at todays prices. To my way of thinking it would have taken quite a while in Pre-Production for that job, which you probably did not charge enough for. I would cost jobs on what it would take now with a realistic estimate for total time spent on jobs. Will post more later.
Yes I do think you are undercharging. I will post later with more thoughts... I've got a job to finish. One thing though, even though the Trans AM job is older I would "quote" it at todays prices. To my way of thinking it would have taken quite a while in Pre-Production for that job, which you probably did not charge enough for. I would cost jobs on what it would take now with a realistic estimate for total time spent on jobs. Will post more later.