How much do you charge?

I'm very happy with my new Sony FS5! It's an HD monster, and the 4K is very nice looking too. HD is 10bit 422 at 50mbps, and 4k is 8bit 420, 100mbps. The comparisons I've seen had it beating the C100 in quality and features, and one thing I really love is the electronic, variable ND filter. So you can set your f stop where you want it and use the ND for smooth exposure control with zero color shift. It's also very light, and you can break it down to just a box for use on a gimbal or drone. Oh and there's the 240fps slow motion in full 10 bit HD! Here's a little thing I shot for a client using the super slow-mo.
 
Just wondering, what is the going rate for 4K video for an hour or two?
some of my client is being cheap, I told them - the media for shooting 4K is expensive
since we have to use SSD - 250GB an hour.
 
Nobody charges by the resolution of their camera. You charge based on you skill as a camera operator / editor. What kind of product can you deliver? What settings are you using that takes up 250gb an hour? There is rarely a time when shooting RAW is even close to necessary, especially for a client who doesn't have much budget. Anyway, I charge between 70.00 - 100.00 an hour. Sometimes less. It depends on what the client can afford and how much schlepping the gig entails. Sometimes I'll just charge a flat rate, like 500.00 for a basic TV ad. Can you share an example of something you produced? That will give us an idea of how much you are worth.
 
Oh man. I keep telling myself I'm going to stop arguing on the internet, yet here I am. Everyone I know in the industry charges a) for the labor and b) for any gear they provide. So you have a separate "kit fee" from your labor fee. That kit fee could change depending on what gear you do or don't bring. Cam and mic? That's one fee. Lights? Another fee. Slider? Another fee. Etc. Resolution therefore could have a bearing on his fee it involves extra gear---a sound guy told me recently how he charges $50 more to push the go button on his recorder vs not using it and going straight into cam.

Everyone I know also charges by the day/half day (based on a 10 hour day and 5-hour day, respectively), not hourly. Hourly may help you figure out your half day/day rate, but generally doesn't come into the discussion until you hit overtime.
 
Are you arguing with me Josh? Nothing I said conflicts with what you said really. I didn't mention rent, but that's usually what causes me to charge tat the higher end of my spectrum. I do think that one's skill level has a lot to do with what they can charge. You can't pull 500.00 a day of your footage looks bad, but maybe 100.00 a day for a client that can't afford any better. I don't think one has to use an SSD to get 4k. This is an EX1 thread anyway. I guess there's not enough information to help with the question. A GH4 can shoot 4k for 1,200.00 for the camera body with no SSD, and certainly no 250gb an hour. This 250gb an hour sonds like RAW level recording. Did the client request RAW? We don't have enough info.

Jpham, can you give us more information? What camera are you using? What did the client ask for - exactly? Do they need audio? What is your experience? Have you done professional work before shooting 4K? Where is this job taking place?
 
basspig said:
The industry is slowly but surely moving away from service based to content based. Everyone will soon own their own camera and there won't be a need for 'camera for hire' folks. Ultimately, I see the market shifting to a content creator's market--the most creative content wins.
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This is exactly how I see the corporate and branded content here in Toronto (expensive city to live). The market is flooded with 'camera for hire' and in oder to get good clients and business without chasing a losing cost game you need to become the content creator and not just the worker bee. You need to sell your creative ideas. Those are unique and what people will pay for these days not 'camera for hire'. In past years I used to get work shooting for other production companies and agencies but have seen a huge market shift in the last year. Many of the agencies have created their own 'low budget' arms length company that they funnel all of the clients who are pulling money from broadcast commercial and going with cheaper online branded campaigns and ads. These are agencies that used to not handle anything less than 100K campaigns but not are eating the small production company clientele. All of these agencies hire really young guys (some are admittedly very talented) and pay crap rates in order to keep their agency overhead but are able keep their clients with lower priced content for online. With the DSLR revolution there are thousands of new videographers flooding my market each year and with most living at home without families or mortgages they can offer to work for exposure or pennies on the dollar and all the usual suspects have made taking advantage of these young kids as part of their business model in order to protect margins. When these kids want more they are just replaced with the next kid looking to work for exposure. I worked for a few of these companies over the last year and have not bothered to renew relationships as it was clear they would never lead to anything better. For the bigger budget campaigns they already had their 'Top level' guys and once you were branded a low budget guy that was your lane with these companies.

There used to be a healthy middle ground between student work and high end commercial production but now it seems the middle class of production is dying. Everything is either high end or low end budget wise. Clients have been given it all for cheap from young guys trying to break into the industry that they balk at line items as extras that used to be no problem. For instance they expect steadicam/gimbal type shots which used to allot a budget for a specialized operator but now its expected that every production company provide steadicam shots as part of the Cinematography/Videography package along with the general decrease of rates overall. I've had to go out and get a glidecam system and train on it to be able to offer my clients what they are demanding. Some demands I've decided I won't follow down the rate hole but others I've just had to accept.

Content creation and ideas are what will take you from the factory line video guy to a valued creative partner.
 
Sorry Chad. Maybe we're not arguing. The mention of hourly threw me off. . .as folks I know generally don't think in those terms until you get to overtime (or maybe editing estimates). Same with the gear thing. Maybe it was just wording.

As for the paradigm shift regarding crew people/content creators/etc., I think if it gets that bad I will probably just leave the biz. . .I like being a lowly crew member, can't really see myself doing scripts storyboards for anything but my own personal projects, unless something really neat/creative came my way, and I just don't have those kinds of clients. I could see throwing in some of the extra gear, up to a point, depending on profitability. Right now I don't even own a cam let alone gimbal, slider etc. so it's a real easy choice to make about whether a budget is a too low to be worth it, since I have to rent everything.
 
The question was regarding working for a couple hours. In those cases I do charge hourly, but never have I had a different price for HD vs 4K. It's no harder to shoot in 4k, and nobody is shooting in RAW unless it's for a real movie, and in those cases they aren't complaining up front that they don't have much to offer, because they are pros. I have a sliding day rate. I live in a small area. Humboldt County near Eureka CA in a town called Arcata. There is no industry here and no gear rentals. There is a film commission and films get made here, as well as some reality shows. We have these Giant Redwoods that everyone loves. But day to day people aren't producing much video beyond local TV ads. So the videographers here are usually one man bands, and the main players all know each other. Rarely is there a whole day of shooting, so we charge by the hour. I do have rates for all day. I have to do everything as an OMB, so I've got hired for audio gigs where I charge 400.00 a day. Usually they bring their own camera ops, but I have done aerial for Travel Channel, Nat Geo, Discovery and some smaller companies. For that I charge a 1000.00 day rate. Otherwise I have to read the client. Most mom & pop places can't afford big money, so I assess the situation and charge what I think I can get. I sometimes have to compromise because it's either work for cheaper or don't work.
I do have multiple cameras, and a slider but not a steady cam rig. I can borrow a friend's for that. But I do have to own about everything I use because as I said there is no renting in Humboldt. Best investment is great glass, tripods and microphones. The cameras will change, but the other stuff can last your whole career if you don't cheap out. Give 'til it hurts when it comes to yout tools. I've never regretted spending an extra 300.00 for something I need, but I have regretted every time settling on the gear that is "good enough for now".
 
jpham said:
Just wondering, what is the going rate for 4K video for an hour or two?
some of my client is being cheap, I told them - the media for shooting 4K is expensive
since we have to use SSD - 250GB an hour.
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I used to shoot some product placement stuff locally and send it to the companies home office for editing or whatever they wanted to do with it. I just burned the raw data or whatever format they wanted to DVD as a data disc and mailed it off. Portable HDs are so cheap now, I would just send raw footage and audio on HD.

All Im saying is that the media/size/resolution isn't really a factor you can charge for.

I used to charge $250 for what amounted to 30 mins of shooting and an hour or so to get it in the mail plus the discs cost.

When a client is too cheap, move on.
 
Is it still normal to have an hourly or day rate rate which increases based on resources used?
For instance: If your hourly rate is $200/hr which includes a camera, basic light kit, mic and operator..
Then adding a slider, jib, more cameras, teleprompter, more mics, more crew etc..would cost more.

I agree the massive influx of DSLR kids plus cheaper gear has dropped the lower end of the market to a bottom feeder price shopper market = losing price battle.

Regarding selling ideas now:
I agree this is where the creative guys who can come up with great ideas plus have the gear to do great things can stand out. However, how do you guys protect yourselves from coming up with great ideas the clients love, only to have them drop out and have someone cheaper do your idea?
 
I apologize. . didn't think of market size. I live/work in the 4th (third?) largest city in the USA so that colors my perception. Here we really don't go by the hour, even on shorter days, that is simply a "half day" (5 hours). It is up to the individual how much to compromise their ideal rate to get a gig, or how much gear to throw in that isn't being charged for. I guess you have to decide when you'd rather just stay home than haul all that stuff around for a low price.
 
firehawk said:
Regarding selling ideas now:
I agree this is where the creative guys who can come up with great ideas plus have the gear to do great things can stand out. However, how do you guys protect yourselves from coming up with great ideas the clients love, only to have them drop out and have someone cheaper do your idea?
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The more detailed the pitch the harder it is for others to claim they already had that idea. vauge concepts can be easily stolen unless they are so unique most concepts are derivative anyway and the execution is where originality shines. I pitch proposals vial email (easy timestamp and reference) and make it clear in the email that I value my own creative property and that If I don't get a response in a week I am planning on shopping the concept to another company. It makes it clear that I am aware of my intellectual property and take it serious or at least that is what I hope they get out of it. To be honest if someone really wants to rip off an idea they will and its up to you to take legal action which most can't afford. So far I have been fortunate that a client hasn't taken one of my pitch ideas and executed it without me.
 
You can always make people sign an NDA. Non Disclosure Agreement. But usually it's the client with the idea for the film that makes YOU the potential producer sign the NDA.
 
Chadfish said:
You can always make people sign an NDA.
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FrameFarmMedia;1986636415 I pitch proposals vial email (easy timestamp and reference) and make it clear in the email that I value my own creative property and that If I don't get a response in a week I am planning on shopping the concept to another company. [/QUOTE said:
Too FrameFarm Media and Chadfish; are you able to share an example ?

thanks
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I have never needed an NDA. It's usually the concept that is intellectual property. If someone says they have a product they want to promote with my video services, but it's not public knowledge yet, they have me sign an NDA. Or if it's a movie with a star, I sign an NDA that I will not talk about anything happening in the movie or even about who is in the movie. If you think the video technique you are going to use to shoot someone is so original that you think they will steal it, just write an NDA and make them sign it. Google "sample NDA" and see what you get. But watch out you dont turn people off by being unnecessarily paranoid and making people sign stuff just so you can pitch them a local TV ad. They may think you are more trouble than they want to deal with.
 
Even in a low budget job. You meet with the client and pitch an idea, they like it, everything seems good, and then they find someone cheaper to do your idea and drop out.
 
firehawk said:
Even in a low budget job. You meet with the client and pitch an idea, they like it, everything seems good, and then they find someone cheaper to do your idea and drop out.
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Yup, I've had a potential client do this. I offer a free meeting
with potential clients so I can ask them questions about their
business or organization, the audience for the video, and it's goals.
They ask me about the production process, cost and time frame and
a few other things. Once I hashed out a quick idea and script in the
meeting, and they went to the local TV station (who throws in free
production with an airtime buy) and had them make my idea.
I no longer offer any creative until I have been hired and received
a deposit up front.
 
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