GH4 How is the GH4 now with the VLog Update?

[ReelFilmGeek]

TO those who have purchased the update and gotten to play around with it how does the GH4 hold up now? I have always thought about looking into one but the dynamic range of the camera was one of the biggest turn offs for me, that and the color of the images coming out of the camera (they aren't bad but weren't usually my first choice, but that could be due to the video I was seeing and how it was graded). Now with the vLog update I was interested how the cameras dynamic range is, how well does it hold detail in the shadows and high light roll off? What about the low light of the camera, some people have told me anything over 800 is unuseable while others say its okay.

I want to upgrade out of DSLR territory because I would love to have built in ND filters, Pro Audio, and an even better image. The GH4 has its advantages though and could be my answer, the YAGH unit (though it needs its own powersource to run right?) 4k and slow motion are nice bonuses, and it can have built in NDs with some lens adapters, or I can get a speedbooster and something like the 18-300 F3.5-6.3 Lens and use a varrible ND (and wont have to change the lens that often). However once rigged up the price goes up, close to something like an used F3 which has great dynamic range, tons of pro features (both have 10 bit though which is great), no recording time limit (lost some jobs with the DSLR due to 20 minute recording limit, simple easy conference shoots) and a more pro look (honestly I dont care about that but some clients do).

So how is the GH4 doing now with the update?

 

[joe12south]

VLOG-L is not the miracle many of us hoped it would be.

DYNAMIC RANGE
The dynamic range increase is very modest. Mostly what it reveals are noisy shadows that you need to crush in post, anyhow. You can get maybe half a stop of "highlight protection."

COLOR
Color is much improved. Using Panasonic's VLOG > 709 LUT yields color that is pretty dead on. First time I've been close to happy with skin tones from a GH camera.

8-BIT vs 10-BIT
The internally recorded 8-bit image is challenging to work with. It's very "thin". Low contrast, low saturation areas are prone to encoding errors that manifest as green and magenta blocks. Having four times the color resolution, the externally recorded 10-bit image holds-up much better.

EXPOSURE
More than ever, V-LOG L proves that the GH4 is an ETTR camera. The log gamma really reveals the noisy shadows that have always been there. The camera's exposure tools are not well suited to shooting log, you have to practice and get a feel for it. (An external monitor that can use LUTs is a big help.)

ISO
Everyone's option varies as to how much noise is too much noise, but I found that a properly exposed image was usable up to 1600 ISO...same as any other profile.

 

[wwjd]

joe perfectly summerizes it

 

[maranfilms]

After grading 10bit V-log I was pretty happy, the image held up pretty well, Night and day difference from 8 bit, of course. After shooting 8 bit v-log, I soon found it's GARBAGE!! A complete waste of time in my opinion. What more can I say, unless you have means for 10 bit capture, DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY!! Your better off giving the 100.00 to a charity of your choice!

 

[Bern Caughey]

I use GH4s extensively but mostly when their small form factor &/or hybrid capabilities are advantageous.

If your going to build out a GH4 to perform more like a coventional video camera I'd try to stretch the budget a bit to pickup a camera that incorporates the features internally, such as the upcoming Sony FS5, or maybe a C100 II.

 

[ReelFilmGeek]

VLOG-L is not the miracle many of us hoped it would be.

DYNAMIC RANGE
The dynamic range increase is very modest. Mostly what it reveals are noisy shadows that you need to crush in post, anyhow. You can get maybe half a stop of "highlight protection."

COLOR
Color is much improved. Using Panasonic's VLOG > 709 LUT yields color that is pretty dead on. First time I've been close to happy with skin tones from a GH camera.

8-BIT vs 10-BIT
The internally recorded 8-bit image is challenging to work with. It's very "thin". Low contrast, low saturation areas are prone to encoding errors that manifest as green and magenta blocks. Having four times the color resolution, the externally recorded 10-bit image holds-up much better.

EXPOSURE
More than ever, V-LOG L proves that the GH4 is an ETTR camera. The log gamma really reveals the noisy shadows that have always been there. The camera's exposure tools are not well suited to shooting log, you have to practice and get a feel for it. (An external monitor that can use LUTs is a big help.)

ISO
Everyone's option varies as to how much noise is too much noise, but I found that a properly exposed image was usable up to 1600 ISO...same as any other profile.

Dang other than the color improvement (which is great as that was one of the major offsetting things for the camera for me) thats a shame to hear.

I use GH4s extensively but mostly when their small form factor &/or hybrid capabilities are advantageous.

If your going to build out a GH4 to perform more like a coventional video camera I'd try to stretch the budget a bit to pickup a camera that incorporates the features internally, such as the upcoming Sony FS5, or maybe a C100 II.

Sadly the FS5 and C100 are out of my budget, but a used F3 might slide into it, no 4k and only 60 fps but the colors and look of that camera I really do enjoy.

 

[Bassman2003]

So what does this mean for the GH5? Are they going to have to offer 10bit internal to make V-log a viable option? Maybe Panasonic can make the improved color the core of the "normal" presets and start from there?

 

[visceralpsyche]

Colour can be fixed with Cinelike D to give you the same tonal quality and dynamic range as V-Log.

The 8 bit internal V-Log recording is garbage as Joe said. YUV chroma smearing everywhere. It's compressing the colour space on recording with the result being you are using less than the full gamut to get your pictures. The linear profiles don't suffer from this issue, so you can get better colour from them once adjusted.

Without an external 10 bit 4:2:2 recorder, V-Log is useless, and frankly I'm a bit pissed at both Panasonic and the beta testers for remaining silent on this when they are asking $99 or more for something that is useless without spending thousands more.

HTH!

Cheers,

Paul

 

[Bassman2003]

This is beginning to look like the "uncompressed HDMI out" on the 5DMKIII. Canon drug their feet and it appeared that the feature would offer a better shooting option when it was finished. Once it arrived we saw that they were just pushing the mush through the HDMI. I think the common thread or general lesson is DSLRs & video = compromises.

 

[wwjd]

Let's not forget, the GH4 produced fantastic 4K video long before the VLOG mess, and continues to produce fantastic 4K video. It's not broken, still a great camera that few others can match at this price point.

 

[Thomas Smet]

Let's not forget, the GH4 produced fantastic 4K video long before the VLOG mess, and continues to produce fantastic 4K video. It's not broken, still a great camera that few others can match at this price point.

word

 

[jopereira]

Let's not forget, the GH4 produced fantastic 4K video long before the VLOG mess, and continues to produce fantastic 4K video. It's not broken, still a great camera that few others can match at this price point.

That's a fact.
Only few, surely professionals, can see what's less than ideal in GH4 - even those, keep a beautiful silence when it's price is side-by-side with its image.

Even so, Panasonic cannot ask for $100 without saying that's for professionals with 10bit workflows all the way (meaning, external recording necessary). I'll pay $200 for V-Log and internal 10bit recording - my cards have 9x more speed than GH4 ever uses.

 

[estarkey7]

So what does this mean for the GH5? Are they going to have to offer 10bit internal to make V-log a viable option? Maybe Panasonic can make the improved color the core of the "normal" presets and start from there?

Well, they better, as I just cancelled my V-Log order after getting some quality time to test the one they let slip out. At first, I was so pleased with the color and the increase on dynamic range (I'd say it's about 1 1/3 stops) that I didn't pay attention to the horrid noise and artifacts in the shadow areas.
So I'm going to take my money from V-Log and buy Vision Color LUT package. This is very dangerous territory for Panasonic. The last thing you want to do is piss off your base when you got Blackmagic Designs firing on all cylinders.

And all this flat line response from the beta testers is killing their credibility. It makes them look bought and paid for, even though I'm sure that's not the case. But this silence in unison is a sure sign that Panasonic corporate told them to hush. Hopefully they are working on a fix for this mess.

 

[Thomas Smet]

The reality of any type of LOG format is you are trying to cram a wider range in an 8 bit space. Basically people are trying to get the benefits of shooting RAW without getting any of the actual benefits of shooting RAW. I'm not sure why anybody really though V-log would perform magic. Its a tool to get a certain look and not a magical transformation that turns the GH4 into a RAW camera.

In order to really benefit from a LOG format you have to have a bit of extra range which means to me 10 bit external recording is almost a must. Sure you can use it internally but don't expect miracles. LOG is really meant for a more professional workflow and that does require a more robust format for recording.

We also have to remember the GH4 is a DSLR with a stills sensor. While it is an amazing camera the sensor itself it still the same sensor and LOG doesn't change that. The GH4 is still the GH4. Maybe the GH5 will be better with V-LOG but the reality will still be cramming a wider range in an 8 bit space will have limited benefits. Nothing will change that. You really need a higher color depth to really enjoy the benefits of LOG. One cannot magically make 8bit work like 10bit. The physical limitations are already there.

External 4k 10bit recording may not be practical for everybody but keep in mind external HD 10bit recording is much more realistic.

 

[Brandon Freeman]

External 4k 10bit recording may not be practical for everybody but keep in mind external HD 10bit recording is much more realistic.

This this this. I was anguishing over the fact that I didn't have cash for a 4K external recorder, only had $300 or so, then a light bulb went off - I never output 4K. I shoot 4K to get a nicer HD image. So I can send a down sampled 4K signal out of the camera into a $300 Atomos Ninja Star. Exactly the same results, just before editing, and it secures 10-bit 422 color. No brainer.

 

[DLD]

New DVX200 samples look good in V-Log. It's a different sensor though.

 

[wwjd]

Technicolor CINESTYLE performed 8-bit magic for Canon, for free, more than 4 years ago. VLOG sort of back peddled instead.

 

[balazer]

The reality of any type of LOG format is you are trying to cram a wider range in an 8 bit space. Basically people are trying to get the benefits of shooting RAW without getting any of the actual benefits of shooting RAW.

You get real benefits from shooting log. You get an image that can be transformed into scene linear, for more accurate color and the ability to perform exposure compensation and color balancing accurately. It gives you more exposure latitude. It's some of the same benefits as shooting raw, but not all of them, obviously.

I'm not sure why anybody really though V-log would perform magic. Its a tool to get a certain look and not a magical transformation that turns the GH4 into a RAW camera.

A lot of other cameras do log in 8-bits much better than the GH4 does. And it is magical. Like magic, I can take an image that wasn't exposed correctly and didn't have the white balance set perfectly, and adjust them after the fact so they look like they were set perfectly in the camera. Log is not a tool for getting a certain look. Log is a tool for getting true-to-life images in a repeatable way, or any look you want.

We also have to remember the GH4 is a DSLR with a stills sensor.

Nonsense. It's a hybrid camera, using a sensor designed for stills and video.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

A lot of other cameras do log in 8-bits much better than the GH4 does. And it is magical. Like magic, I can take an image that wasn't exposed correctly and didn't have the white balance set perfectly, and adjust them after the fact so they look like they were set perfectly in the camera.

What you just described is a cability of shooting RAW, not log.

 

[Thomas Smet]

You get real benefits from shooting log. You get an image that can be transformed into scene linear, for more accurate color and the ability to perform exposure compensation and color balancing accurately. It gives you more exposure latitude. It's some of the same benefits as shooting raw, but not all of them, obviously.

A lot of other cameras do log in 8-bits much better than the GH4 does. And it is magical. Like magic, I can take an image that wasn't exposed correctly and didn't have the white balance set perfectly, and adjust them after the fact so they look like they were set perfectly in the camera. Log is not a tool for getting a certain look. Log is a tool for getting true-to-life images in a repeatable way, or any look you want.

Nonsense. It's a hybrid camera, using a sensor designed for stills and video.

I never said you don't get any benefits, I said you don't get as many benefits with shooting LOG at 8 bit. I have used S-LOG on the SONY F3 and internally it just doesn't have the same range since the camera records 8 bit internally. Externally at 10 bit it was better although we only used 4:2:2 10 bit external recording and not their 4:4:4 dual link external recording. We never had an external recorder that could do dual link.

Again I'm not saying LOG doesn't have a benefit when recorded at 8 bit, just that it doesn't have as much. Having used S-LOG on the Sony I know it isn't the best way to work. It has an advantage but if you care enough about a project to shoot LOG you should probably consider doing it the right way and record it 10 bit.

No not nonsense. The GH4 is a hybrid camera but that means it has features and capabilities that are geared better towards shooting video and stills. The form factor and sensor are still a stills based design. Panasonic has to make the GH4 work as well as possible as a stills camera. Despite what you think the GH4 is targeted towards photography. Key word here is hybrid and not a cinema sensor designed for RAW or LOG video. Being a hybrid camera means it is perfectly designed for stills or for cinema work. Its somewhere in the middle. The GH4 is a phenomenal camera and in my opinion trumps a lot of the other choices out there. Sure one camera may do low light better or have more dynamic range but no other camera makes shooting true 4k video this easy, affordable and with this much control. If you use lights the GH4 can hold its own compared to just about any other camera out there right now. The GH sensors however were never the top world class sensors. They are darn good considering the size and what they can do but there is definitely room for improvement. Having used the GH1, GH2, GH3 and the GH4 I have seen the progression of the sensors and how they get better each time. I still think the GH1 was a bit better at stills however.